GFS at YSBK

[171203]

Hi All

Does anyone know to what level is General flying Services doing flight training at Bankstown? CPL? ATPL?

Are they using it as a base for the Moorabbin HQ or is it being operated independently?

If so, does that mean they'll be doing some training for QF cadets at Bankstown as well ( since CAS lost the contract)

[skyfox]

171203

I was chatting with the CFI the other day and I believe that at the moment they only have the resources to go as far as CPL. Their setup is only new and they are still trying to get a foot in the door of the BK market.

I heard on the grapevine also that some motivation for coming up here is to get the QF cadets. Nothing confirmed of course.

They have started off small and have no intention to tread on anyones toes. They will always be based at Moorabbin. All the hiring and firing goes on down there. I believe they wont be the cheapest on the field either... but thats what you get if you want to fly new planes.

In time i'd say as they build up they will teach ATPL.

SF:D

[Stiff Under Carriage]

171203,

I was just reading the post and you mentioned that CAS lost the QF contract. Can I ask when, why and how? Since I have moved about 3000nm away I have kinda lost track of what BK has been up to. Interested in whats been happening.

SU/C

[stormywx]

Does anyone have the contact details for GFS at BK?

CAS lost the contract as of the beginning of this year. Lots and lots of rumours about why, really depends on who is telling the story.

stormy

[flyboy20]

CAS lost the contract due to bad management, being unorganised and a total lack of standardisation in their training. It was a shame really because they had the resources (just not the right management) to really make it work.

[shaablamm]

If CAS lost the contract for lack of standardisation in the training then this must have been recognised through the poor standard of student that they were producing Tto QF.

I reckon there would be a few out there who would disagree and some that would feel that it was about time....

[Farknel]

Digressing slightly but ...... CAS essentially turned out good quality students - especially at the CIR M/E and LOFT phases. However these phases of training were all conducted by very experienced instructors, and QF have acknowledged this.

Standardisation was an issue during the ab-initio stages, however it did not significantly affect the quality of the cadets at test stage - it was just that they all did things in slightly different ways, which is unacceptable for Airline Cadet training as their whole future is going to be based around adherance to SOPs (supposedly!).

The other main issues that concerned QF was the unreliability of the aircraft and inability at times to maintain a set schedule. It should be noted that at no time was a student ever required to fly an unsafe aircraft, it's just that was always a snag of one sort of another that rendered the aircraft u/s until rectified. A large aspect of this 'snag' situation is that the staff tended to have a low tolerance of anything that may affect an aircraft's servicability - which is exactly as it should be.

It could be argued that all of the above is a result of poor management, however there were a number of senior people within the organisation that tried their best to get everything set up in a professional and well run way - if there was "fault" it was most likely due to "poor ownership" and the inability of the people "who write the cheques" to see the truth of what they were being told by those they employ to tell them what to do. Pathetic really!

I wish GFS the best in their endevours. It's about time some-one put new aircraft on the field!

[Skypark]

Which university's are GFS affiliated with? And how does the whole degree with flight training work?

GFS seem like a great outfit, now how does one make the decision between flying with them, and say flying with CAS? Any opinions?

Regards

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Skypark;

The first decision between the two is aircraft.

Do you want to fly something new (and spend more $$$) or fly something possibly made before you were born (and spend a little less)??.

(not making any assumption on your age so please don't take it the wrong way:D ).

BTW, I'm not associated or have ever been associated with either co.

[OzFlight.net]

Skypark,

GFS at Moorabbin is the sole provider for flight training for the Swinburne University B.Tech(Aviation) flying degrees which are 3 years. They also provide for the Swinburne Tafe 18 month Diploma.

I am not certain on the exact setup however I beleive that they are also contracted to operate the RMIT Flying School at Point Cook for their Diploma as well.

How do Flying Degree's work ?

Standard aviation degree is run over three years with the student completing it and coming out with a CPL, NVFR, Aerobatics, Multi and the optional ME/CIR or Instructor Rating.

Normal university subjects are taught directly by the university and the flying school teaches the flying theory and the actual flight training obviously. The flying theory are university subjects and the flying school is contracted to teach those subjects for the univeristy.

Timetables can vary however it is common to spend at least 2 days at the university and 2 days at the flying school each week for theory, actual flight training is additional to this and based at a student pace. The PPL is generally completed in the first year and the CPL by the end of the second year.

I recall when I was starting to fly down at Moorabbin a few years ago and I did consider GFS. Rich-Fine-Green is correct that they are possibly around $30-$40 per hour more expensive than other flying schools. Later on I found out a little more about them and their increased rate could be justified. If you ever hire a plane all fuel is included even if you fly cross country, they cover it all and the same with landing fees and the price also includes insurance excesses if something does happen.

I know a friend at another school at Moorabbin was forced to pay a $1500 excess after the nose-wheel collapsed, the flying school was of the opinion that the landing was too hard and thus the students fault. Alas GFS I beleive provide a good quality training standard with new machinery. The reason I didn't fly their was because if you aren't a part of a full-time course it is almost impossible to get an aircraft and instructor that is available.

OzFlight

NB: I have never flown with GFS nor work for them or Swinburne. I have however had expereince with the Aviation Management studies at Swinburne which is where I gained this knowledge.

[CurtissJenny]

If GFS has a 'good standard of Flying training' then please explain why the subject company has had 2 fatal aircraft accidents in less than three years that have cost the lives of 5 people and the destruction of 3 aircraft ?
The other operators at MB have not had a write-off in the same time and have not had a minor injury much less a fatal in the same time.
Questions should be asked! by CASA and QF.
It continues to amaze observers at MB the night time antics that the said company tollerates. One would have thought that the said company would have pulled its head in after the last fatal accident and tightened up in all areas.
This has not happened! CASA appears to be impotent.