View Full Version : IFALPA ban

26th Jul 2001, 08:28
SCMP Thursday, July 26.

An international umbrella organisation of pilot unions has banned members from taking jobs with Cathay Pacific or helping train Cathay pilots.
The International Federation of Air Line Pilots' Associations - representing groups with more than 100,000 pilots as members - criticised Cathay's sacking of 52 pilots.

In a written note advising member organisations of the bans, the group described the dismissals as an intimidatory tactic and a "deliberate attempt to escalate the situation into a full-blown confrontation".

Despite the latest call, the federation and local pilots previously have asked pilots from other airlines help Cathay put on extra flights in the interests of passenger convenience.

Aircrew Officers' Association general secretary John Findlay said it was hard to tell what effect the bans would have, but it would alert pilots to the dispute.

The federation said the bans were put in place at the request of Hong Kong pilots.

Cathay's director of corporate development, Tony Tyler, said the bans had not affected the company.

26th Jul 2001, 09:42
This previously discussed on another thread...

26th Jul 2001, 12:29
I know Ironbutt but this is the first full text of the IFALPA ban that may be of interest to people other than yourself.

26th Jul 2001, 17:58
Well, they can try, but don't think it will have much effect. For example, does China comply? Think not.

27th Jul 2001, 00:57
Let's put things into perspective...no matter how fancy language you union folks use, the people who stand to benefit most from the unfair sackings...and that they are...no doubt about it, are the current CX pilots who are in line for commands....and since APPARENTLY no IFALP0 (a) sanctions are in place regarding accepting these command opportunities...it would APPEAR to the/us outsiders...that you are all hypocrites...so please educate us, and all the prospective CX employees, as to why they should pass up an emplyoment opportunity, whi,e the CX pilots should not pass up a command opportunity that is also afforded them..no rhetoric or B.S. please...just facts...if you want support then give people REASONS...not threats or rhetoric...is that possible from a union boy?

Aaron G. Stryngge
27th Jul 2001, 02:35
Wow, Ironbutt. You really can't understand simple concepts, can you?

Put as simply as I can so that even you can understand, if airlines treat pilots simply as a commodity whose experience and qualifications count for next to nothing, that endangers flight safety.

If pilots permit CX (or any other airline) to get away with such behaviour, it will persist and worsen. If, however, such treatment results in pilots refusing to take jobs with the said airline, they are more likely to modify their attitudes and management techniques, resulting in a safer airline.

Further reasons? Anyone who is not totally self-centred will be able to empathise with the plight of a fellow professional who has been shabbily treated by a major player in the industry, and will have the opportunity to register their disgust.

And more - CX F/O's who avail themselves of the opportunity of a command under the circumstances you describe are taking jobs that rightfully belong to pilots unjustly fired.

Would you merely shrug your shoulders if your employer sacked you on a trumped-up charge and an FO with whom you had been flying merely looked upon your dismissal as a command opportunity, and took your job, leaving you to wonder where the next mortgage payment was coming from? Or would you hope that he would support you in any case you were to bring for unfair dismissal?

So there are a few reasons:-
1) Flight Safety
2) Professional Courtesy
3) Lack of Selfish Motivation
4) Simple Humanity

Which of these (if any) don't you understand?

27th Jul 2001, 04:00
Pilots refusing to take jobs?

IF Cathay advertised for DE Captains and F/O's, suspect that the line for applications would go 'round the block...twice!
These guys have their heads in the clouds, or up their backsides. They must live in the "CX pilots' ivory tower" where sanity does not enter or prevail.

27th Jul 2001, 09:17
AGS....do you read english...CX folks expect applicants to pass up the job opportunity....fine...no problem with that....but meanwhile, the same cx people and IFALPA who are encourageing applicants to pass up the job, are themselves APPARENTLY accepting command training...which is also at the expense of the sacked pilots...selfish? look in the mirror..

27th Jul 2001, 09:32
Cpt 57,
Finally you have the b@#* to say like it it is.
Evry one feels bad for the guys who got fired but hey ! let the guys who want to be in that so call "RUT" let them have the job that the CX guys are so unhappy with.
Go for it "iron 57 "

simon chitty
27th Jul 2001, 12:46
Great post "IronB 57", an easy concept to understand.

Whats good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Liam Gallagher
27th Jul 2001, 13:03

Care to give some evidence, name your source, that members of the AOA are accepting either command/FO upgrades.

If you want to know the AOA's position on this matter, suggest you try contacting them on http://bbs.hkalpa.org

Whilst I appreciate that you are not a "union-type", be aware that the AOA is a member union of IFALPA (through the HKALPA) and the members of the AOA are bound by any IFALPA directive. However, it's only a union directive and if you don't believe in unions it's all meaningless.

Be also aware that for most CX pilots, failure to get the guys their job back, will mean the end of the AOA as a union and of course the end of collective bargaining/seniority. For those of us in CX, our future shall be at the whim, or gift, of the company. The stakes are now high.

411A.. CX do take Direct Entry FO's. Response was so good in the your neck of the woods, CX tried Malaysia...Apparently, they even found one guy who passed the interview process!