Housing Allowance?

[Tiger Tim]

The rise in property prices, particularly in the south, over the last 3 years seems to have started making mortgages unaffordable to the younger guys coming out of trg. (Fg Off, low rate flying pay etc).

As we know, MoD salaries are not exactly racing up.

Certain messes are filling up to max with individuals financially 'excluded' from getting on the 'ladder'.

Has anyone heard of any move to address this in the same sense that those working in London have traditionally been entitled to an allowance or any other sense?

[Specaircrew]

Well when I was a first tourist Fg Off in the mid seventies we were so poorly paid that we couldn't afford a house either but then again it wasn't exactly high on our priority list because that's what boring married blokes aspired to. We just wanted to afford a decent sports car but the best a chap could manage was a 6 year old MG or TR.

Mess life was of course great because we all lived in and spent our money on beer, women and go faster stripes for the car. The more adventurous of us used to share rented houses and live an 'Animal House' lifestyle which was an absolute riot.

I agree that house prices in the South East are very expensive, but then they always have been. As a singly I didn't get my foot on the property ladder until after my second tour(I was 30) and to be honest I'm glad I didn't have the millstone(11% interest rates) of a mortgage around my neck until then because I'd have missed out on so much.

I realise that if you marry young your priorities are different but judging by the number of brand new sports cars driven by first tourists these days I'd say that the pay is pretty reasonable

Apologies if this sounds like a 'we used to live int cardboard box int middle ot road' speech but we did....honest :-)

[flygunz]

Look at the pay scale of your civilian counterpart and it will be very clear that in the military now you get paid very well.
I often wonder at this 'I'm owed a living' attitude that comes out of the military, especially it seems RAF pilots. If you do get financial help with buying a house at a young age then you're very lucky. If you dont, then welcome to reality where the only person that will make a difference to you is you!

[BEagle]

Cardboard Box? Luxury. We lived at 't bottom of 't septic tank....

Agree with speccer's comments. But back in 1983, a basic starter 2-bed semi cost around £34K in this part of the world. Now they're around 4 times that figure. In 1983 my annual pay (Flt Lt on top rate FP) was £14674.25, so such a house would have cost about 2.3 times my annual salary. In contrast, I guess that TT must be on around £29K per annum? So the same type of house would now cost 4.7 times his annual salary......

No wonder the first tourists are into sharing houses or renting (as we did in the late 70s) and spend their money on cool wheels, BIG speakers, widescreen TVs...... Back in the 70s, as speccers said, 2, 3 or 4 aircrew would share a rented house. It too would be upgraded with a large-ish 'stereo' and a 'colour TV' (specaircrew had one with the latest techno-whizz - Teletext!), home brew would be bubbling away in the loo, weekly parties would be held when chums would visit - and old-ish cars with reasonable performance would grace the drive. Some things haven't changed that much, it seems.....

Except that we probably had more time for fun back then......

[Captain Gadget]

BEags

Agreed, but then some of us went through flying training at the time of the ghastly 'Fighter Pilot' series, when sharing houses suddenly became about as de rigueur as lighting an eggy fart before the Loyal Toast.

Mind you, there was still some fun. I think the count of cars written-off by my original BFTS course between starting at Cranwell and being awarded wings at Valley was about 15. That's approximately 0.5 cars per year each!

[maxburner]

FLYGUNZ,

You are correct in that military pay is not bad, and of course the problem of expensive housing is there for everybody. Nobody owes the military a living, and I'm sure most military types would never claim that. However, you miss a point. Military types are at a distinct disadvantage in that they, and their salary earning wives, are moved frequently and often at short notice to parts of the country or world that they would rather not go to. It makes buying a house much more complicated and if their wives jobs suffer, much less affordable.

[Specaircrew]

Yes prices are quite silly in this part of the world and I remember being unimpressed at having to fork out double what I sold my previous house down Kernow way for . Mind you my mortgage now costs 300 quid a month less than it did ten years ago, the value of the house has almost tripled and I earn considerably more beer tokens a month so property ownership costs do eventually go down.

It should still be possible to find a property for an affordable price in the South East, OK so it may not be in the most fashionable location or it might need a lick of paint but then a home is what you make it and you're only going to have to sell it again when you get posted.

I'm still trying to get over having paid more than my first house cost for a 6 year old sports car!

[You want it when?]

Maxburner - Is it a surprise that services personel are posted? I always thought this was in the job spec.

I can see it being difficult to get on the housing ladder etc.. but have you thought of just buying somewhere near a station or anywhere and then renting it out? Then when you've finished doing "your bit" either living in it or selling it?

The problem also affects us civilians who work in the South but the other benefits you get (and the risks - totally agreed) are a lot different.

[maxburner]

You Want It When

Try re-reading my last post. I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. Of course military people get posted and no, its not a surprise. It does, however, make life more difficult, which is all I said.

[flygunz]

Maxburner
Tiger Tim never mentioned that point and was whining about the cost of property and expecting a free handout to enable a purchase (in Kensington!). Like spec I rode through the 14% interest rate period trying to buy my first home and I wonder why with interest rates so low and military wages so high where the problem is. Proportionally, the difference between property prices and incomes is not far off where its always been, the two tend to move in sympathy.
The military recognise the turbulence of postings with affordable housing and good benefits. The point you raise about quick moves and earning wives is lame to say the least, most people join for the security, travel, adventure and the chance to fly low level in something sexy. How many ways do you want your cake cut?

[getupah]

"The mess is still the same price" :p

50 Quid says that's the official response (if any)

How about buying a house elsewhere?
You could rent it out whilst living in the mess, make a bit of dosh whilst generating capital, and buy a house closer to where you work in a few years time. ;)

That would certainally be my plan, being mid 20s and still earning as much as most of my graduate friends who live and work in expensive London.

[Rude C'man]

There is of course the Assisted House Purchase Scheme, ok if your over 35 , unless you are in the RN . How come during these times of jointery (last time i looked my big boss was commander JHC ) there are seperate rules for Brown,Light Blue and Dark Blue ?

Any way if a mere SNCO aircrew can afford a decent property nowadays , then whats your problem? Me thinks one should have saved a little more when one was younger . Buy a 2 up 2 down rent it out and make a fortune mmmmmmmmmm and then prices rocket in the mean time, lovely jubbly

[artyhug]

Sorry, "saved" I don't think I'm aware of that concept.
Could someone old who smells of wee explain it to me, I'd hate to be missing out on something....http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/owen/fett.gif

[JohnB]

If you are finding it difficult to buy a house on commissioned wages plus flying pay. . .just think of the other ranks (remember them??) trying to get on the ladder when they earn considerably less.

As an example - SAC after 12 years service (low level year 5) £16,111. With pay incentives, the max he could be on is year 7 or £17,505.

Its a good job that the RAF has now started to let people sign on as SACs to 22 years or the Council housing lists would be swamped when they are discharged at the 12 year point.

Next time you bump into some SACs, ask them how many are doing part time work in their stand downs.

[Pete O'Heater]

After 12 years the SAC should be a SGT!
:eek:

[Biggus]

Pete O'Heater

Your last comment will no doubt generate some angry replies, or was it designed to? I once worked in a shift system with a variety of SACs, some of whom were very gifted individuals. They were in a trade group which had approx 400 SACs and 4 annual slots for promotion to CPL!!! In terms of assessment creep you had to give them scores of 9 (in the days when it went up to 9!!) for them to have any chance at all!! The RAF promotion system includes an element of luck, at all ranks, which I think most people recognise. It is totally dependant on your relationship with your 1st reporting officer. I have seen some very gifted officers not get promoted, or have their careers put on hold for several years, because they and their first RO did not get on.

So how about not slagging off long serving SACs just because they are still SACs. A little goodwill goes a long way, and I still have some outdated concept that we are all on the same side (not quite sure who the enemy is these days, not the Warsaw Pact any more - perhaps the Treasury or our own politicians???)

Don't tell me, IT WAS JUST BANTER?!!!!!!!

[Pete O'Heater]

Biggus...

Many apologies to anyone taking my thread the wrong way...
In no way was I intending to denegrate SACs, in fact I used to be an airman and understand fully what the previous post was getting at. BUT, there are 100s of people in the service who bitch/moan about their lot but have made no effort whatsoever to advance through the pay/rank structure.

Getting back to previous comments by JOHN B I don't think it's entirely fair to expect aircrew to 'back off' or run guilt-trips on the basis that other people in the RAF are worse off. I also think that the original point re assisted house purchase for junior ranks is ridiculous.

Regards P.O.H.

:)

[Charlie Luncher]

I think the answer the poor fella is looking for is:

London allowance is only for those within the M25, you know senior Os and uncivil serpents that decide allowances and salaries.

Where no suitable service accommodation is available there is a scheme called FIA to ensure you are not on the street.
It was changed from lodging allowance about 97 ish as too many senior Os were sharing 1 bed-roomed flats and pocketing the cash.

Still the cheapest (until divorce) I guess is to commit half your pension to a bimbo and take up a quarter, at least on the patch you get to swap her regularly.:eek:

PS Anyone want to buy a 3 bed house in Hants, handy for London, Benson, Farnborough and Odiham. Any offer accepted over £230,000:D