Real Cool Jock

[Centaurus]

Seen by passengers boarding a Virgin Blue flight the captain in the left seat wearing his red company baseball cap back to front Lleyton Hewitt style and reading a newspaper. How the game has changed from the old image of the stern looking steely eyed old git captain wearing a hat with scrambled eggs on the peak and a cowering yes sir, no sir co-pilot in the RH seat.[

[TIMMEEEE]

Well, I cant comment on the professionalism of the driver but the some of the things I hate seeing are:

1. Baseball caps on backwards (especially adults trying to look 20 years younger).
2. Pinky rings.
3. Chunky gold chains (especially if you're an ethnic with half of your chest unbuttoned in the process)
4. Pilots walking through airport terminals chewing gum and looking like a cow chewing the cud.

Just in my opinion its very unprofessional and it goes back to the old image thing but in no way can one assume anything about the relevant crews professionalism.

Image is important but you cant beat good old professionalism and common-sense.

I may be abit old fashioned and am starting to go grey but times are changing.

[Gnadenburg]

I love a relaxed cockpit when I`m working.

I do cringe if witnessed when paxing.

[topend3]

the vb baseball caps are a great addition to the uniform...maybe not backwards though

[Woomera]

Hmm

There is a Worksafe issue here.

The cockpit is a pretty hazardous work environment in this context, being above most of the protective layer of the atmosphere and the glare off the cloud tops.

When I were but a lad and started wearing headsets in a bid to protect my hearing I was then, universally poo pooed as a you know what. My hearing now is not all that flash, at least thats whats mrs woomera says anyway. ;)
The wearing of ANY sort of baseball cap ANY WAY, then was treated in the same manner, notwithstanding that it was a great help with glare and sun protection.
It took me a while longer to work out the solar hazards of short sleeves and shorts, apart from the fire issues.

As a side bar the cap did help keep the headset stable on my bonce.

Coolth is not an issue

Nowadays I would insist on the maximum protection of the cockpit crew possible as part of my duty of care responsibilities.

Having said that I think the glass in the modern aircraft effectively removes all of the harmfull ultraviolet, but not necessarily so in the GA environment.

I undertand a good test is whether your photochromics do their job as I think they require UV to do their trick??

Either way when I have a little trouble with my hearing and look at my spotty forearms, on which I expect eventually to see minor skin cancers, I wish I had been more aware.

[Boeing Belly]

Baseball hats were a very effective tool for keeping the sun off the often follicly challenged heads of some of the old Captains I flew with. Newspapers, in my opinion, are OK in the cruise but pretty ordinary at the aero-bridge!!

[Woomera]

Boeing Belly
I agree the pax take a great interest in what's going on when they can see into the cockpit.

Seeing your comment re newspapers in the cruise, brought back a memories of a nightmare multi sector flight, as a pax on an airline belonging to our northern neighbour, occupying a seat up the front of the cabin.
The door being open most of the time to enable continuous idle chat with the delectable FAs, I was able to observe the newspapers taped all over the windows to keep that pesky sun out until carefully peeled down around finals and for TO and restuck when the wheels went into the wells, sort of. :rolleyes:

I would have been quite happy for them to be read at the aerobridge in the circumstances. :D

[Bugsmasha]

This issue of reading the newspaper while boarding was commented on last year by the chief pilot as being unacceptable.Maybe the cool captain wasn't around back then. Also, someone should tell him that the RED caps are for F/O's and the Captain gets a BLUE one. :D

[Keg]

A former AOPA President and QF 744 driver wouldn't even let you put up the shades installed in the aircraft on the numbers 2 and 3 windows on the 744 because 'you won't be able to see another aircraft coming towards us'. My response was that i wouldn't be able to see them either way due to having sun spots in my eyes! The berating that followed was worth the look of apoplexy on his face for the three seconds before he exploded. :D

[RamAirTurbine]

I wonder how the flattened deck log on the window would go then ?

[Barbers Pole]

It would be pretty poor if you couldn't read the paper at work but it should be discrete.
Caps, well we are all bright enough to know how harmfull the sun can be.

Out with the old skippers & in with the new!!! ;) :D :cool:

[Capt Vegemite]

If you as much as read anything but the flight manual in my day someone woulda nearly broken their legs post flight tearin across the tarmac to dob you in to bull**** castle.

[LeadSled]

When the BEA Trident hit another aircraft ( DC-9 ??) over ZAGREB, as was established in the accident investigation, crew members reading newspapers, and not looking out the window, was a probable contributor to the collision.

Even in Australia airspace, there have been a number of near misses that would have been hits, if not for the good lookout of the crew, ( Lufthansa V. Qantas between Alice and Balgo Hill, Continental V. a Gulfstream of the NSW coast are just two that come to mind) and it is hardly a “professional” attitude to bag the idea of a good lookout, that’s what see and avoid is all about, and don’t forget the number of collisions IN controlled airspace in Australia.

I note Keg’s post with some interest, Qantas has survived operating in every airspace environment devised since 1921, and quite successfully, the Captain you mentioned well knew, understood and accepted the need for using every resource available, including a good lookout, to minimize risk, and demanded the same from his crew.

As for your sunspots, Keg, did you get them from the Classic 747 Classic, the 767, or the early 744, that did not have the pull up/down side shades.

I really do suggests, in the interest of the safety of your aircraft and other crew and passengers, that your keep your vision unobstructed, in other word’s arrange your affairs to maximize the safety of your operation, and put your own immediate comfort well down the list of priorities.

And perhaps have a look at the Qantas policy manuals, all of them, there is some good advice there, and it ain't optional for Qantas crews.

Tootle pip!!

[Torres]

I can't help but chuckle to myself......... :D :D

[Wonderworld]

I'll bet he wouldn't wear the baseball cap backwards if he knew how that trend started. Then again, maybe he would :eek:

[LeadSled]

Torres,
Liked that, did you ???
Cheers, and Tootle pip !!

[Centaurus]

:) Wonderworld. You have me intrigued. How did the trend of the reverse wearing baseball cap start? Was it an Afro-American thing? Because it is now a world wide phenomenon.

[Wonderworld]

Well you did ask. The story I have is that it first started in the gay community in the United States. There is no delicate way to put it really but picture a guy giving a blow job to another guy with a basball cap on the correct way. It kind of gets in the way, so they just turned it around and voila! a whole now trend is begun. Dont know if its really true but its such a delicious story I'm sticking to it. You shoud see the looks on the faces of guys who do wear the baseball cap around the wrong way when you quietly tell them how it started!!!! :D

[Keg]

Not early model 744 Lead but still on the same machine. I've no problem with utilising every asset to avoid a problem but I find that at times, NOT using a shade when it is available (as was the case in 95 and or 96 over the pacific) can be detrimental to be able to see aircraft in the other 84% of windows available. Not sure also how I'm supposed to spot an aircraft from about four o'clock and low on the horizon which is where the sun was when this Captain (you!?!?) got stuck into me.

As for the rest, I recall being made to read an ICAO radio hand book on the flight deck. I sure as hell wasn't maintaining a good look at at that stage. Similar goes for a lot of S/Os who had their heads down in a Jepp chart trying to work out the pronunciation of some navaid in India or Pakistan that EVERYONE including the Indian and PAkistani ATC referred to as the three letter ident. ;) :D

Geez, is a see through shade too much to ask for to dim the sun? Next thing you'll be telling me that sun glasses are a no no due to 'impairing the ability to see and avoid' :rolleyes: Ironic too that we weren't allowed to keep bottles of water on the flight deck due to the 'risk' they posed in a rapid decompression but a bloody great big METAL deck log was OK! :rolleyes:

Must be the GA virus I'm still infected with! :p :cool:

[Balthazar]

Keg, I like your attitude.

Remember the hun in the sun. If you block the sun, but not the whole window, it allows better visibility. IT IS SAFER.

As to the petty QF captains that like to intimtidate their juniors, I'm hoping that they are retiring soon. Christ, I fly with guy's that most QF pilots think are incompetent, maybe even inappropriate racially, but they dont give **** to juniors.


By the way, we read newspapers as much as we can. It's the only way to keep attentive for 16 hours. My only concern is that I don't block the instruments.:D

[divingduck]

Ledsled...

If I remember correctly, at the subsequent inquiry it was found that even though the pilots were reading and doing crosswords, there would have been no chance for them to have seen the conflicting traffic as it was climbing up under them.

That said, British Airways put in place a no reading, keep a look out requirement for all their flight crews

wonderworld...

love the story!!

[1013]

Ah yes - the old newspaper debate.

I remember my daughter in law some 2-3 years ago (an ex AN hostie) was told by a newly appointed ex Ansett Training manager (for a European aircraft type) that if she witnessed anybody reading newspapers in the flight deck then he wanted to be contacted at the earliest convenience!
He then very matter-of-factly handed her his business card boasting of his new title.
What an ass!

I remember when route checking many years ago I had a rule with regard to newpapers.

On 2 crew aircraft like the tri-star on short haul sectors I didnt have an issue with the reading of newspapers as long as one soul up front had his eyes on the job and when established in the cruise.
Let's face it - we have our eyes down for the majority of the time and at night look out seldomly in comparison.

We are always grabbing approach plates,looking things up in manuals and company publications,re-arranging the paper-work or doing housekeeping.
I agree on climb/descent all eyes should be on the job but in the cruise and with a low work-load why not relax and create a good work environment?

These clowns who preach total newspaper abstinence sound like those that preach about the dangers of the "demon fluid" and are typically grandstanding.

Not to mention the fact that someone has firmly wedged a burr up their arse.....................

[Kaptin M]

When the BEA Trident hit another aircraft ( DC-9 ??) over ZAGREB, as was established in the accident investigation, crew members reading newspapers, and not looking out the window, was a probable contributor to the collision.
Even in Australia airspace, there have been a number of near misses that would have been hits, if not for the good lookout of the crew, ( Lufthansa V. Qantas between Alice and Balgo Hill, Continental V. a Gulfstream of the NSW coast are just two that come to mind) and it is hardly a “professional” attitude to bag the idea of a good lookout, that’s what see and avoid is all about, and don’t forget the number of collisions IN controlled airspace in Australia.

The theory of maintaining a CONSTANT lookout during cruise probably sounds plausible to some pax, and even low time PPL's, however the REALITY is that it is not realistic in some circumstances. eg. flying east/west bound into a rising/setting sun.

One of the problems (of which experienced pilots are aware), is the eye's inability to determine distance when at altitude and with no known fixed point upon which to focus. Even when advised by ATC of "Traffic at (same level/1,000'/2,000'/above/below, range 5/10 miles" BOTH crewmembers will USUALLY completely miss detecting it - in spite of being told PRECISELY where to look!

Night time of course is much easier!

Another factor wrt mid-air collisions is that aircraft on a collision course maintain the same relative position in the windscreen, as opposed to a speck moving across it - the moving object being the "trigger" that catches one's attention.

And finally, I believe most non-pilots don't realise how tiny aircraft are (relative to the sky). At 10-20 miles, an a B747 is literally the size of a pin head in the windscreen.
Sighting it at say 7nm, with a closure rate of say 1080 kts leaves 23 seconds before impact........at 5nm is 16 seconds.

Should flight within cloud be disallowed because of the inability of the pilots to see other traffic? :rolleyes:


On the subject of reading in the cockpit, many airlines SUPPLY newspapers to the flight deck. Reading with occasional, frequent breaks to scan inside and outside, is a sure way of maintaining a higher level of alertness than sitting staring fixedly into space!

However, in the interests of being "seen" (by pax) as professional (in spite of no doubt having completed his pre-flight duties) the pilot should have displayed some "situational awareness" by realising that boarding passengers love to have a look at "the monkeys in the zoo" if at all possible.
I'm sure they expect to see us sitting in there, flicking switches, reading never-ending checklists, pointing, and saying "Check".
Try not to disappoint them next time, please! :D

[Al E. Vator]

Keg you raised some good points there, good for you for using logic in the face of a bully Captain.

Led There is a captain in QF who may well be the fool referred to by Keg. He is reknowned not only for frequently yelling at junior pilots but also occasionally hitting them.

Your comments "Qantas has survived operating in every airspace environment devised since 1921, and quite successfully, the Captain you mentioned well knew, understood and accepted the need for using every resource available, including a good lookout, to minimize risk, and demanded the same from his crew". look foolish.

Yelling at and hitting other crew members is categorically NOT using every resource available. This particular captain is sometimes seen in the media and is unfortunately an example of the very 'qualities' a professional pilot should not exhibit.

This behaviour may have been standard in 1950 but has no place in the modern cockpit.

[E.P.]

Unfortunately it is the VB pilot uniform that enhances the (mis)preception of unprofessionalism and promotes the G.A. jock look.

The pilot hat is actually a safety device and symbol of authority. In an emergency (in other Airlines) pilots don their Hat as they egress so that pax have a focal point and the pilot has authority.

A yahoo with a cap backwards yelling commands will not be acknowledged nor respected.

VB can still be all fun and games however, the pilots should remain professional and I believe all pax (and all professional pilots in VB) would prefer to see a proper pilot uniform.

The American Airforce have a similar coloured uniform if you need to look for inspiration.

The rapid rise to fame of VBs 'less experienced' young guns will only further engender disrespect and a deterioration of the status of Airline Pilot in Australia.

Travolta might be a geek but he sure looked a million times more PROFESSIONAL than any VB pilot I have seen in action.

[Exotic-Temptress]

I am amazed at how many people responded to this hideous topic.

Yeh i too, am placing a post in relation to this topic, but just to voice my opinion at how SAD people are. What, no one has anything else to discuss except how one captain wears his cap?????!

What's the big deal about how one human wears his/or her cap...or what others think of him/or her...or how they are perceived......WHO REALLLLLLY CARES!!!!!:o

[Centaurus]

Hey Exotic T. Lighten up a little - or you will set yourself up for a heart attack. The beauty of these threads is not necessarily the original amusing subject but the fascinating twists and turns of opinions that flow from it. :D

[Kaptin M]

Try reading the posts, ET instead of "skimming/rimming".

You MIGHT find that the discussion goes deeper than caps and head jobs!

But then again "dumb" and "blonde" aren't necessarily synonymous!
However it makes for easier recognition...so please buy yourself a bottle of peroxide. :cool:

[E.P.]

EXOTIC

You young-gun you.

Who really cares? The thrill seekers paying for your cut and blow dry at Subiaco salon........luv.

[puff]

How can you be an airline pilot with the Postman's hat? How will pilots impress strangers at supermarkets without the hat ??

Probably find the baseball cap isn't standard issue the Captain in question probably had to buy it from the FA's trolley for $15 :)

[gravy]

Yes, I, too, have been victimised for my inclinations towards sun-shades. During those few hours out of the crew-rest and when I'm not asleep at my post with eye-shades on, I find it quite intolerable to have sunlight streaming in upon me and address the problem by stringing up pages and pages of newspaper... I find the Australian works best. Soon the cockpit ambiance is back down to dim and dingy and with my mp3 doof-doof music pumping in my earphones I can almost transport myself back to some sleazy club. Of course the lack of p!ss and poon are a dead giveaway...

And there's always the moment when he walks back in and brings everyone down. It'd be a lot of fun without the crustacean-riddled old farts and their bad KARMA.

So anyway, this one time, at band camp, I was reading my second paper of the day I always read TWO to get the boss desensitised before I pull out a novel and really switch myself off) ( I think i'd sunk to the Sunday Times or some other fine publication.)

The capt told me he'd had enough of my attitude and to show some interest and pay attention to what we were doing (???). I didn't really know why what we were doing was too hard to read at the same time and was confused for a while so I kept reading. He got madder so I used my old trusty and told him reading keeps me alert. He told me if I needed to read, I should read the (phone book sized) manual. Then he got even madder again when I almost fell off my chair laughing. When I recovered I told him whenever I have trouble sleeping I always read the manual and I'm asleep in like 5 seconds flat, dude... What a knobber he was. Unfotunately QF capt world seems full of knob-aches and such-like.

Speaking of which, who thinks this temptress is so exotic, besides her??? And is she really into "rimming" as KM says? Yawn......

[Tool Time Two]

I know an airline, where reading newspapers in view of boarding passengers is a local SOP.
It must be - the local pilots always do it regardless of the number of times it is suggested as not the best thing to enhance "professionalism".
The reluctance to wrap it up never ceases to amaze.:cool:

[fartsock]

Keg,

That GA virus of yours must have caught on pretty quick considering you have about 15hrs outside of the cadetship and thats just chasing cadets around camden pretending to be a RAAF officer

[Barbers Pole]

ah, can anyone help me with 21 across?
5 letter word for "Droll" :cool:


Gravy, sheer poetry. ;)

[Keg]

fartsock. ROFLMAO. You know who I am yet you don't have a clue about me do you. You are incorrect about a couple of things. I've done less than 15 hours of flying with the AAFC at Camden. I've been in a flying suit at Camden once in my life (when I did less than the 15 hours) and I've never pretended to be a RAAF officer. Your knowledge of what flying I've done outside of the cadetship is equally lacking.

I am however an officer in the AAFC. If you wish to debate the merits of an organisation that serves young people, tries to instill a sense of self discipline in them, gives them opportunities to develop leadership and initiative, gives them access to training opportunities that leave the average teenager in disbelief and so on then fire away. I'll even use my 'other' profile which includes my real name.

At least if you are going to take a shot at me do your homework and get your facts right first. Feel free to play the man if you like but do me and the AAFC the courtesy of not disparaging an organisation that has given a head start to thousands of teenagers for the last 60+ years.