Rear exits on 737-700 unusable for water ditching?

[gulf_slf]

I noticed during a safety demonstration (yes I do watch them after 40 years of flying!!) on Oman Air 737-700 that the rear 2 doors of the a/c are not used in the event of a water landing ...only the wing exits and the front 2 doors (l&r).
Any reason why?

Is this particular to this a/c or do other a/c have this restriction ? If so why ?

The fact that I was seated in row 27 i.e. right in front of the galley, did not bring on any sense of fear or paranoia.......much !!

[knobbygb]

I have a few safety cards here, so I'll check. (NOT that I EVER remove them from the aircraft, of course!)

All the US cards I have specifically state that the rear exits are not to be used but that the others are OK, These include CO 737-100/500, UA 737-500, US 737-300
Now, on the UK cards, BD (737-300/500), Sabre 737-800, Easyjet (737-300), BA (various) all specifically state that ONLY the over wing exits are to be used - not the front or rear.

Air France says front and overwing OK, rear not OK.

Lufthansa, Sabena and Olympic have no specific diagrams covering water evacuation:eek: (other than fitting of life jackets).

No idea why the doors shouldn't be used. Only guess I'd make is that there is a chance the lower sills may be below, or very close to the water line (The diagram for the CO 737-500 clearly shows the a/c tipped back with part of the rear door below the water line).

More worrying is the inconsistencies! Must be a regulatory thing between different ICAO states or somthing. Then again perhaps SN aircraft floated better (shame the airline didn't):D

[Tiger]

The overwing exits are the primary exits in a ditching on all aircraft with overwing exits. Some aircraft such as the Bae146 the fwd doors used only (as they don`t have overwing exits). Most aircraft become tail heavy with APU etc so they become lower in the water at the rear. Open the rear door and the water more that likely will gush in, and your sink like a lead balloon in seconds. Fwd doors on some aircraft will be above the water line but not always. Some aircraft use the slide as floatation devices some don`t.
The 737-400 had a pressure value on the rear right side just under the door and it was thought it could work in reverse ie sucking water in.

Being honest with you, all pilots will try to land rather than ditch. I doubt very much a ditching will look anything like the delightful diagram on the safety card, with calm seas bobbing the complete fuselage and wings gently up and down.

As to the B737 aircraft, I`ve been crew on them for a number of years and at one time UK operators did use overwing exits first then the crew member moved to fwd doors removed the slide pack took to overwings and inflated on the wing. I also believe (and I`m going back to 1988 here) before that little number overwing exits to be used and if fwd doors above the water line they could be opened with side engaged, then jump on to slide used as inflation advice, lift this flap and pull this and that, pull extra hard use cutting aid to break land yard and paddle away quickly to avoid being sucked down as the aircraft sinks (seen Titanic I take it ;) ). It all becomes a bit time consuming and to be honest bit of a joke...we are human not super heroes.

Aircraft manufactors do change there procedures from time to time after learning by accidents and they sent out updates.

Hope this helps

[Xenia]

Very clear explanation Tiger ;)
As a B737-700 crew and safety trainer I couldn't add a bit to your very detailed reply!
As far as slides armed for ditching on B737-700 I believe it goes to each airline policy. As you said they could only be used as a flotation deviced as they are not slide-raft.

[Tiger]

I use to train SEP 737 and 146, and trying to remember all that and all the changes......I even helped write a training manual for the 737-300! Info seemed to update all the time.

[PAXboy]

Tiger - Right On!! All information I have seen about ditching is contrary to the picture on the card! Whilst aware of life jacket, my presumption has been that this is only going to be of use if you flop into a lake/sea on arrival/departure at low speeds and gentle angle of attack.

I have no doubt that the folk at the front practise SIM landings on water but I struggle to recall a successful ditching in my 37 odd years as a Pax!

In the blurb, the words I like best are "A landing on water" :D

[smile]

Just remember no matter what the type of emergency the cabin crew are trained (no make that "drilled") to ensure that they first look outside to check the conditions. Therefore if there is water lapping at the door then they will not open it-- same goes for fire etc.....

[Evening Star]

[cabin crew are trained ..... to ensure that they first look outside to check the conditions ..... same goes for fire etc]

And the passenger operated exits (overwing on a 738, front row on ATR's, etc)? Often seem to end up in those seats, so presumably various people think I am responsible enough to do the job properly. While I would like to think that I would check and make a correct decision, a quick briefing is not the same as being well trained/drilled.

[Tiger]

The overwing exits are know as "self help" exits. There is a criteria who sits at an overwing exit. In a ditching cabin crew will make their way to the overwing.

After the British Airtours B737-200 on the MAN-CFU accident back in the 1980`s the criteria was set. Now life preservation will kick in (as on the MAN accident) other paxs screemed at the people sat at the o/wings to open them. There were a couple of teenagers who froze but now with the criteria who sits there less likely to happen.

If you see fire next to an exit or water splashing against the window are you going to open it? If your not happy sitting there inform the crew and you can be moved. The FAA asks if your happy to be sat there.

There are 2 types of emergency...planned and unplanned. In a planned cabin crew look for some help from certain paxs...known as ABP (able body persons), and hopefully these type of paxs are near or next to an exit.

The Fokker 70 and 100 jets had a crew seat at the o/wing as there is no rear exit. Generally, if extra cabin crew are carried they usually sat at o/w.

This is becoming more like an SEP exam guys!!!

[Evening Star]

Well, I count as ABP, plus take a keen and hopefully intelligent interest in the world around me (I learn more from this site than I contribute!). This is probably why I often end up being seated by the exits. Therefore, if the need arises one presumes I will act with good sense, although hoping I never have to find out.

However, my point is that this is a big responsibility to give to untrained pax. One chance to get right something we have never practised means no guarantee of success. Certainly the issue of fire outside the window is clear cut, and the AAIB report into Manchester does makes sober reading. Water seems more complicated, such as if a damaged aircraft is sinking (the calm sea shown on the safety cards never convinced me, even before reading what you earlier wrote) could this be the only chance?

Has anybody done any research into what pax by self help exits will really do in an emergency?