Brainstorm With Me!

[Aussie FI 3A]

It seems there a lot of new commercial pilots out there who don't exactly know how to get into the industry. Sorry, I cant help you, i'm in the same boat. How about we brainstorm a little and discuss any ideas for making ourselves more employable.

I came out of a 150hr CPL with a CIR at the start of this year, and so far I have been paid for a grand total of 2 hours! I am hoping that finding a complementary qualification will help. I know LAME's who went out and got themselves a CPL and did both jobs when they went way out west. If your like me and don't like the idea of doing a 3 or 4 year apprenticeship don't worry, there other qualifications that may help. When I came out of the course I couldn't find any work despite being prepared to work for free anywhere in the country. I went out and got myself qualified as a Tour Guide and did a little of this on the side. I can't say that it has landed me a job, but the CFI of my flying school certainly seems keen on starting up a scenic flight business now that he has someone who can not only fly but has some concept of how the industry works. Perhaps a formal qualification in small business managment or marketing would also help? I think that too many would be future airline pilots waste there time doing degrees in Airline Aviation (thats what a degree in aviation is) and not enough time laying the foundation for work in the GA industry which they will probably have to start out in. It seems a little odd that would be pilots are studying ETOPS and Turbine theory when they wont be using this knowledge for at least a couple of years. Its almost like training to become a surgeon before studying basic biology.

Another avenue to take is the Instructor rating. I did it, it hasn't paid off yet, but im still hopefull. I have learn't hard and fast that an FI3A initial rating is not interchangable with other training organisations outside your flight school, the lesson: Don;t waste money on an IR unless you can be sure of some kind of employment prospects. I managed to hassel the CFI into letting me work under his AOC as a free lance instructor (teach only the students you can drum up on your own) which is I think the bare minimum pre-requisite for forking out $7500.

Another avenue I looked into was aerial mustering. The lure of lots of hours is very inticing indeed. The problem is that most mustering company require at least 300 hrs and a low level approval (if you go and get this, some opperators will train you the rest of the way on the job). The approval costs about $2000 and will probably require you to have your own CSU single engine A/C or get a tailwheel endorsement (more money again). When I weighed up the pro's and con's I considered it to be too much of a risk to fork out up to $4000 to get an approval which has virtually no use outside of aerial mustering or ag-flying. Even if I had undertaken the rating, I would still have been 80 hrs short of the minimum 300 hrs TT required.

Voluntary work doesn't hurt. I volunteer my spare time (Im on the dole so I have no shortage of that!) at the local aero-club as a free theory instructor and as a smiling face always keen to teach a new would be PPL holder. I don't know yet wether this will pay off but hey, at least im trying to make a go of it.

Im now up to 220hrt TT and doing the hard yards. What do the rest of you do in this situation trying to bust your way up to the 500 hr insurable level?

[429 CJ]

G'day A Fi 3A, you sound as though you have constructively looked long and hard at things, and that is half the battle. I can understand the wish to gain hours with nil renumeration, but please resist it as long as you can - just remember you have had to fork out so much $$ for your licence/ ratings that you need to recoup those $$ as you should now consider yourself a professional and worthy of being paid to fly. There are as many answers to your questions as there are questions for the answers you will recieve, but the fact that it COSTS to gain those extra ratings is reason enough to claim payment for your services.

That said, you have done yourself no harm in doing your instrument rating, as long as you try your best to keep it current. I am in a position where for me to move upwards in my company I will need to "go back to school" and do a few things to bring me back up to speed, so currency is worth keeping in your case. That "500hr insurable level" is something that is used by some operators to hone the selection process down to only a few candidates for a position. That is not to say that you must have those hours, dispensations to policies are always available, but you are the only person who can prove to a potential employer that you are worthy of one. Do you ATPL subjects NOW!!! ;)

My thoughts as to what you should do are more along the lines of meatbombing (yep, you are probably gonna fork out more $$ for the required 10hrs for PJ ops, but if you work a deal with the DZ boss to do those hours in his a/c, you might be pleasantly surprised as long as you come across as safe, committed, and willing to help wherever). Flying scenics in the north of the country are another way for the 200hr pilot to get a start. Be aware that the competion is fearsome, and that that tailwheel endo just might draw comment from a CP that you might just happen to be sitting in front of that "That brings warmth to my heart, you wont have a problem with our a/c" (I've heard those very words much earlier this year from a CP in the Kimberley). OK, I didn't get the job, the people who did had many more hours than I did at the time, but think of all those sexxy a/c that don't have a nose wheel that you'll never get to fly if you don't have a tailwheel endo! Anyone for some aero's in the Pitts? ;) :D

Voluntary work is good, especially where it is tied to a VOLUNTARY ORGANISATION (ie; Scouts, Air League etc), not to a flying school just there for the money.

Learn another language, perhaps Japanese for the Qld market, German/ French for the Central Australian scenic market. Someone else might have some better ideas than I, but I've only scratched the surface.......

Go give a a/c workshop a hand, then they can be another CV refferee if required, and you just might meet an owner or two that needs a ferry.....

Opportunities are everywhere, you just need to look. :)

[TwinNDB]

G'Day Aussie,

It seems like you've put a fair bit of thought into this so here are my two bobs worth.

1. If you are going to do an instructor rating try and do it at your local aero club or suchlike where work afterwards may be more forthcoming. If you do it at a "flying school" or an "academy" they seem to train you for your qualification and then let you lose in the wide world of aviation. Although you may have only been allowed to teach the students that you brought in originally eventually things change. Someone could walk in, want to do a TIF and you're the only one around. Do a good enough job and that student might be yours.

2. NEVER EVER WORK FOR FREE. I had a post on this topic a while back "shiny CPL holders who work for free". This is about the top of the ****tometer for me. It may seem idealistic but if the guy in front of you didnt work for free, you didnt and the guy behind you doesnt, you'd all still get the flying AND get paid for it!!! Its a backstabbing, throat cutting measure that shows no respect for your qualifications and just continues to f*ck up the industry for low hour guys. Read the post that I mentioned and you will find alot of other people out there agree. If I am ever in the postition of CP and I get some guy come in who I know worked for free "up the road" and then comes looking for work at my end and I have the choice of hiring him or another guy who has never worked for free or is just starting off, I can tell you who would get the job.

3. If you are not doing anything active at the moment flying wise get your ATPL's done. You WILL need them eventually and when you start flying you either wont have the time to do them or you'll be too shagged from flying that you wont have the energy to do them. Even if you get the study done, time off from work can be a bug*er.

4. If you want to do charter try and get some time in a C172, C206 or C210. About 10 hours PIC on type is normally the minimum for insurance.

5. Keep your chin up. With 220 TT now, you would find that you'd be able to get a job ahead of someone with the bare 150. Get to 500 to 1000 and you might get the job in a capital city instead of out bush. I guess the whole thing is just progression.

Best of luck

Twin

[Gravox]

Go to your local AirTC or rich kids private school and offer to run a BAK course after school on say fridays, at a low low price of $$$. This is how I came about doing my BAK, and then started to fly with that instructor. The school I went to held cadets every Fridays, after which we did 2 hours of BAK in one of the classrooms. There were 16 of us on the course. The BAK was tied in with the instructors flying school, and they offered a free TIF for the person with the highest score in the BAk exam...that wasn't me, I only got 70%.... Even though I only flew 3 hours with Andrew, I know a few of the other students did many more.

Rich kids private schools are a great source of potential wannabe pilots, whose parents have the $$$ to back there children. Don't look at this negatively, so many people do. A lot of these kids want to be pilots, but still know very little about how to go about getting their. Hold an information session after school one day. Get permission to to place posters up on notice boards, with the relevant details.... I assure you there will be interest. If you can't use a school classroom, try and organise a room at your flight school to hold the classes, i'm sure the cfi wont mind......

Out of my own experience I would not head north with anything less than 500hours. There are plenty of scenic operators on the east coast to hit up. it is essential to stay in one place for a while before moving on. If you are like me you'll get itchy feet quickly and will want to move on after a few months. DONT. I travelled Oz in search of work, and only found work when I decided to head home after 16 months on the road, 3 punctures and a blown gear box later. It is not easy! Don't give in. I had a ball in my travels, worked numerous of jobs to pay the rent and met many great UGALS, who I still keep in touch with... Networking all the time.

It is all about having a positive attitude. In one week a drove 5000km for 2 different job interviews, and got neither, and was threatened to be cut off the dole for handing in the dole form out of my local area...... but all you can do is keep your head up, there will always be someone with more experience than yourself, it certainly is all about being johnny on the spot

GOOD LUCK

there are Blue skies ahead
:cool:

[flipside]

AFI3A, I agree with what TwinNDB says hang around and be Johnny on the spot, and use one of the schools classrooms to study ATP theory(if you have not already got it) that can be the reason you are in there face(so to speak) all day long. Might be worth helping out a little around the school(only enough to pay off your portion of the electricity bill as previously mentioned I don't think it is benifitial doing too much unpaid work for obvious reasons), that is how I and many others got their start down the instructing track, as for other tracks other people are better to answer that than me.

Best of luck, just remember the only difference between those that have made a career out of flying and not, is the amount of time you persevere.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

One of my best mates got a job in Kunnunura by offering to sweep the hanger floor for a meger (spelling?) wage, and after around 3-4 months they let him lose flying tourists around in a 172 or 182 or something.

PAF