Professional Aircrew (again!)

[L J R]

Any one heard any sniffs of info on the so-called professional aircrew spine?

I heard that the pension of flying pay issue is still up in the air.

any PMA gurus out there....... and I don't mean Admin Guru...

[Sloppy Link]

I believe that the AAC are trying to stall it for as long as possible and trying to make it as difficult as possible to be able to join the scheme. It has something to do with the men that advise and administrate on these matters will end up getting a pension less than a Warrant Officer and that will just never do.
A related subject, any one catch the little gem in the currant bun about FRI being wanted back after it had been approved by a CO, then by an RAO and finally by MCM and now they discover it shouldn't have been paid! Apart from the fact these blokes have probably spent it, they have already completed 18 months of the return of service. In typical MCM fashion, the word is they are going to start recovering it from pay packages at the next opportunity.........they can do that without even telling you let alone asking you. I bet there are some legals out there who are rubbing their hands with glee at this one.

[Green Bottle 2]

I am led to believe that if you receive a payment that you aren't entitled to but that you believe you have been paid in good faith then you can appeal the decision to your CO and potentially keep the money. This may only be an RAF thing or it may be a legal issue. I think it may be in QR's.

I could be completely wrong but with the sums of money we are talking about, a bit of informed legal advice may be worthwhile.

GB

[Biggus]

Getting back to the Professional Aircrew (PA) theme. Reference RAF aircrew, I read a while ago that current Spec Aircrew will be automatically transferred to the PA spine next April - you have to apply to stay on your current terms of service (the reverse of the norm)!!! If this is the case it might be nice to know more about what is involved prior to Apr 03!!!

As an aside, the Binnsworth literature I saw quoted a pay level for RAF aircrew joining the PA spine. This figure seemed to be less than the pay of a Flt Lt of 9 years seniority (which they should be by then) and the current upper level of flying pay (not the pilot one!). Comments anyone???

[uncle peter]

www.law.cam.ac.uk/restitution

Overissues are governed by the law of restitution. at link look up british cases- in particular any cases which mention change of position. phil collins case was the landmark decision.

good faith cannot on its own be used as a defence against recovery anymore.

to establish defence of change of position one has to show the payment was received in good faith and that the money has been spent other than in "the ordinary course of things". underlying principle is that if paymasters intended you to have the money without fully and exhaustively researching whether someone may or may not be entitled, then they are to be "estopped" from going back on that decision.

without knowledge of the specifics, it seems that the army chaps have a good case against recovery.

if anyone wants any more info either drop an email or message - have lots of good gen that may be of use.

[Background Noise]

Biggus

As I understand it, the levels of pay start at an apparently lower rate, as you say, but when you go PA you jump in at whatever rate you are on at the time. In fact you go in at the next nearest level above.

I also believe that current SA will automatically be eligible but still have to elect to join. They have to have at least 5 yrs to go though.

[L J R]

Why should SA apply to join?? If history can be relied on, we will probably not bother, more out of apathy than choice.

Will the [old] SA 'contract' apply until we all wilt and go old. What is the difference / benefit of PA if you are already SA.

[Red Sikorsky Bruv]

I understand that the terms and conditions for the PA spine will be published in Feb 03. Spec Aircrew will have the opportunity to transfer (if they are content with the terms) in April and the first PA selection board will be held in June.

[Background Noise]

The big differences in the proposed PA spine, as opposed to remaining SA, are the new pay scale (you can get to a higher level than you get by staying SA) and the considerable increase in pension. (All to be confirmed of course!)

[Mmmmnice]

No doubt by the time you read this you will have seen the latest from GCCC - several pages of double speak that seems to confirm that the whole x-over or not decision will be a bit "pin the tail on the donkey".
As far as I can see the key question will be; how high up the PAS scale will any given individual enter? (brush off those Qs now!) Nice to see that anyone in danger of advancement on the Jul03/Jan04 list falls between 2 stools and gets right royally sh*fted - no change there then. It's all looking a bit murky chaps - time for another stiff one! pip pip

[Biggus]

Background Noise

Thank you for your reply to my post, it turns out we were both right! I have just read the ARR briefing pack 3, along with a covering letter from "Group Captain Corporate Communication" (I kid you not, just about sums up the RAF today! I thought I had joined a fighting military service, not a London based PR company!!!) dated 12 Sep 2002. Amongst other things it says...

"It was originally intended to transfer all eligible specialist aircrew automatically on 1 Apr 03 unless individuals opt out. However, to ensure that an informed decision can be made by each individual, it has been decided that all current specialist aircrew will be required to return an 'Opt In/Out' form......"

More likely somebody pointed out the first approach was probably illegal!!

Lots more in it, suggest you read for yourself, but no details on pay. Apparently "PMA will be writing to all current specialist aircrew in the Autumn, reminding officers of the forthcoming introduction of the Professional Aviator Spine, eligibility criteria and transfer procedure." Funny I thought it was Autumn already!! Looks like we will have to wait until normal pay rise is announced (Feb/Mar?) for details of pay rates on the PA spine.

Hope this helps.