IR groundschool before ATPL?

[NotAnotherUsername]

I'm considering doing an US/Oz/Canadian/whatever SE IR and then converting it onto my UK JAA PPL licence by doing the JAA IR groundschool plus 15 hours training.

What impact would this have on the ATPL exams? Would my 8 passes for the IR mean that I wouldn't have to sit those subjects for the ATPL or are they different exams and therefore have no bearing on the ATPL exams?

Thanks

[Send Clowns]

Afraid the JAA IR groundschool is of no benefit to the ATPL. Not only are most of the exams of a slightly broader syllabus at ATPL, even the one which is of the same syllabus in all three (CPL, IR and ATPL) (Human Performance & Limitations) does not count for either CPL or ATPL if sat for the IR. If you are considering a CPL after your IR (or anyone considering an IR after a CPL) then do the full ATPL groundschool in the first place, it saves you an awful lot of time and money.

[NotAnotherUsername]

Oh well, another good idea bites the dust!

Thanks, SC.

[FlyingForFun]

NAU,

You said:

I'm considering doing an US/Oz/Canadian/whatever SE IR and then converting it onto my UK JAA PPL licence by doing the JAA IR groundschool plus 15 hours training
According to Clive Hughes book (Edition 31, top of page 43):

Note!!! The CAA have now decreed that foreign IR holders must complete a FULL approved course and flight test for the issue of a JAA IR
I interpreted this to mean that you need to do 50 hours of training (or 45 if you hold a ICAO CPL). Is this no longer the case? Or did I interpret it incorrectly?

Cheers,

FFF
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[Send Clowns]

NAUsername

The JAA doesn't really approve of good ideas - they tend to be squashed at the committee stage :rolleyes:

FFF

The CAA (note not all of JAA - another of those good ideas not taken up) introduced an exception earlier this year. A holder of an ICAO IR can now, in the UK, achieve a JAA IR on completion of 15 hours training and passing a full Initial IR Test.

This is not in fact much saving for an ab initio after travel costs have been taken into account, and the fact that the first 40 hours of an IR can be on simulator anyway, and that you will not have an approved IR. However if you have an FAA IR for example, or want both, then the insane requirement to repeat all the training no longer applies.

P.S. the training requirement for an approved IR course is 55 hours, 50 with a CPL.

[FlyingForFun]

Ah, thanks SC! I think I need to get a more up-to-date book!

This is not in fact much saving for an ab initio after travel costs have been taken into account
No, that may be true. But for someone in my position, knowing this could be a big help. I'm unlikely to be able to get enough time off work to be able to do a 50-hour IR course in one go.

However, I wonder if it would be possible to do the following:

IMC, flying at the weekend over a couple of months
FAA IR. I believe that any instrument instruction time can count towards the required 40 hours. So, with my IMC instruction and test, plus the instrument time I did on my PPL course, I'd only need about 25 hours to get a FAA IR, which I can do easilly with a 3-week hoiday from work
Convert to a JAR IR in 15 hours, which I could do with a 2-week holiday from work


The total time and cost would be greater, but I'm not worried about that. The chances of me getting the ratings I need without loosing my current job would be better, and that's more important to me...

(* Runs off to a corner to think this one through..... *)

FFF
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[NotAnotherUsername]

SC, you said:

"and that you will not have an approved IR"

I thought all the approved/non-approved stuff went out of the window with JAA? Or have I missed something here???

[edited to add: FFF, have a look at GID15 at http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/fcl/document.asp?groupid=188, gives all the gen on IR conversions]

[Send Clowns]

Yes, I thought so too NAUser, but note it went out because all courses came to be approved, but I must admit I am not so sure about this one. Since it does not require a full approved course, can it be approved? I assumed not. However the 15 hours must be at an approved school :confused:

I think the CAA should be consulted about this by anyone considering this approach, as it can be important with regards job prospects.

FFF

Certainly sounds feasible, but you be wary of the approved/non-approved situation. I would suggest talking to the CAA, then if the IR would be non-approved posting here for advice from those who know how things were under the CAA. I am really not sure how important it is, but know it can be important.

[200KIAS]

Hi you can email me for info if you like.

[email protected] I instruct FAA IR's in the UK and also have had to do the new 15 hr JAA IR conversion myself.

[FlyingForFun]

Thanks SC, good advice. It's at least 6 months away for me, but I'll post here nearer the time, and try to contact anyone who's done similar.

As for approved/not approved, according to Clive Hughes (although, as we've established, some of the info in his book is now out of date), if you convert an ICAO IR, your license must state that your IR is converted from a non-JAR one, and other JAA states do not have to recognise your IR. He goes on to suggest that this won't be a problem for most British pilots, since our lack of knowledge of foreign languages means we're unlikely to want to fly for anyone registered in another country anyway. But he says it may be a problem for European pilots converting an ICAO onto their, say, French licenses, if they then want to work in the UK but the CAA decide not to recognise their converted IRs.

Cheers,

FFF
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