Australian Army Aviation

[ArnhemDog]

Does anyone know the real requirements for the Australian Army aviation section? The age limitatations have been upped to 45 years so does anyone know what they are really looking for?

Does a bloke at 34 have any chance, and what are they really looking for. Do they want a degree or what?

No bodgey posts please.

Dust driver!

[Chinook]

The entry age for pilot training is any age that allows you to pay back your return of service (6 years I believe) before you reach retiring age (55).

Does a 34 year old chap have a chance?

Mate, if you make the grade at selection and 'hook in' 110% on the course, we'll take you. The vacancies are there, believe me. No-one will care how old you are in the Regts, except for the fact you may cop flak for remembering stuff that most of the pilots weren't alive for - moon landing, Beatles breaking up etc.

Email for more info if you wish.

Check my profile

[Java]

Chinook

Just out of interest, do they army use any fixed wing aircraft or just helicopters. If they do use fixed wing and you have a reasonable amount of time on fixed wing already, do you have a choice of going onto the fixed wing or not?

Cheers

[Gnadenburg]

Who cares about fixed wing?

22 Attack helicopters to be based in Darwin.

What a way to see the Top End!

Using all those fancy infra red and TV sensors to hunt crocs,reconnoitre popular beaches for foreigners(blonde Swedish backpackers) and find the best fishing holes.

Aussie Tigers can be looped, I think.

Unlike many ADF flying jobs,frontline too.Not a quibble at anyone but frontline flying probably a more interesting story for the Grandkids.

[Islander Jock]

Hope you aspiring AAVN guys have more luck than a mate of mine in Perth.

His visit to the ADF recruiting office could be described at best as a joke. He arrives in time dressed like a true aspiring officer (tailored trousers, collared shirt with matching belt and shoes) and sits with the blue jeans and check shirt brigade. Recruiter comes in and after telling the assembled mass about his wonderful military career asks "OK who want's to fly helicopters"? My friend puts his hand up and is told "Sorry mate, you're in the wrong group". :(

OK, so my friend eventually finds his way to another experienced and helpful recruiter who asks "Tell me Benjamin, why do you want to join the Navy"?:rolleyes:

Some time later, after yet another phone call to the recruiting office speaking to either an uninformed recruiter or an even dumber APS member he finally receives something in the mail thanking him for his enquiry about becoming an army chef. :eek:

Chinook,
From your experience, do guys & girls with previous experience, ie CPL, MECIR have any advantage in the selection process? Provided they are accepted, do they tend to keep up with the pace of training any easier ?

[johndoe]

Arnhem Dog,

I am currently instructing at the Basic Flying Training School in Tamworth which is the initial flying training school for the ADF. Of late we have been getting alot of older (I prefer experienced) people joining the Army to fly. If you are 100% motivated and willing to work hard/learn, the Army is keen to give you a shot. I recently taught a guy who was in his 40's with around 10000 hrs.

Islander Jock,

Mate, situations such as the one you described completely embarrass me. It happens so often and we lose good people because of incompetent gits in recruiting. I went through a similiar "stuff around" 10 years ago and it has only got worse ! To those keen to join the Army, Navy or RAAF, don't let recruiting incompetence destroy your desire to join. This is not representative of the ADF flying environment (most of the time).

[Islander Jock]

johndoe,

yes recruiting has turned into a very sad state indeed. Luckily, in the case of my friend I am able to draw on some of my own contacts to steer him in the right direction to get good information. Unfortunately advice supplied by the local ADFRUs varies from office to office and even person to person. Don't get me started on the APS staff that infest non operational defence positions.

The guy you spoke of in his 40s that you recently taught wasn't by chance a former CP of a WA based charter operation and a soldier back in the 80s was he?

[Silent T]

Until fairly recently I was also an instructor at Tamworth, and I'm not sure if me a nd John Doe are talking about the same guy, but the guy you describe does seem to have been through Tamworth. Soldier in the 80s, flew south of Perth for a little while and then up somewhere up north, possibly Geraldton?

John Doe, any hints on your id?

[tone-uncage-fire]

Conditions of Service

Could someone please give me a run-down on the COS for a hyperthetical AAAvn Major ..... Flight Commander/QHI type.... with 4000 brit mil helo hours?

Pay and Annual Leave....etc

[the wizard of auz]

After applying to get a normal ol grunt job in the army and passing every thing they threw at me (phsyc and all) they informed me on the day prior to departure to Kapooka that I was found to be medically unfit for service because I was allergic to anathetics.................like who would give a stuff after I became a wounded fella.
I bet I would be called up quick and lively in the case of war.
I would have been quite happy wandering around the sky in a C130 for as many years as they would have let me, but them blokes in recruiting wont even let me plead my case as I have been knocked back once and they dont wanna know................I hope we dont ever run into a war, cause I'll have to tell em to get stuffed then and ruin my reputation as a gentalman. :D

[gaunty]

wiz
LOL and touche mon ami. :D:rolleyes:

[Like This - Do That]

'Morning all

I checked the recruiting web site and plowed through all the smarty pants pop ups, etc, looking for detailed medical info. No real joy.

Do any of you know if the ADF has relaxed its rather anal eyesight provisions? I ruled myself out of applying for aircrew selection on the basis of v. mild short-sightedness.

I thought I would see the day when the eyesight rules relaxed but not the age limits - interesting to see it's the other way around.

Any word?

Cheers

[RPPT]

ArnhemDog,

Some food for thought. If you are serious about joining the Army as a pilot, then give yourself the best chance of success. Make sure you do your homework beforehand. I am not just talking about reading books and magazines about Black Hawks or helo aerodynamics etc etc, but also talk to people who are doing the job. Give the bases at Tvl, Oakey and Darwin a call and ask for the crew room at one of the squadrons. Talk to the pilots and ask them about the good, the bad and the ugly. Ask as many questions as you can about the lifestyle and also what the role of an officer is like in AAAvn. Then call the BFTS at Tamworth and ask to speak to an older Army student and grill them on how they found the selection process (maybe johndoe can help here). Better still, if you live close by, maybe you can tee up a visit. And for heaven's sake, make sure you've been for a fly in a helo. Good luck.

[Stiff Under Carriage]

Like This,

I have a mate who just went through the recruiting stage (interview, psyco, aptitude, etc) got through with flying colours, having said that though they told him he'd have to wait for the decision for laser eye surgerory, as he wears contacts, mind you this was for the Air Force. The decision was whether they will no longer accept this as a method for correcting vision. It is still under debate. If the decision comes back saying "No, we req 20/20 uncorrected vision" he will unfortuately be unable to continue into the Air Force as a pilot.

As for the Army I don't know.

Hope this helps,

SU/C

[DIVINE WIND]

With regards to eyesight i have been told that the army has relaxed their standard to -1.00
it may be even more leanient if they are taking old farts almost hitting fifty(no offenece intended).
JohnDoe, could you shed any light on this mate? I have rotary and fixed wing licenes plus ATPL passes. Could this act as credits towards entry requirments,say if you don't have physics.
cheers
:cool: :cool: :cool:

[johndoe]

Guys,

I should point out that my knowledge of recruiting requirements is somewhat incomplete and being in the RAAF I know little about Army recruiting. However I have been told by friends (Army Instructors) that as long a you can serve your 6 years return of servive on completion of your training, you will be considered for employment. This to me means that if you will not exceed the retirement age (55 years I think) at the end of your 6 years then you are eligible. (must be no older than 49 on completion). As for experience etc, this isn't really a significant consideration during the recruiting process as the ADF is generally looking for natural piloting ability/Situational Awareness potential , leadership and officer qualities, motivation and an overall sense of "is this persn likely to become an asset" to the ADF. I know that the Army is looking for quality people, and age no longer seems an issue. You of course need to be fit enough to serve on operatins however (of which the tempo is very high at present). I believe that the visual standards have been / are to be lowered from 20:20 (as told to me by a military doctor). What the standard is at present however I dont know. Feel free to contact recruiting for this information, and if they are of little help, contact the Aviation Medicine department in Adelaide. The ADF is very sensitive to laser eye treatment at present as the long term effects are not known. They can check to see if you have had the procedure completed.
In summary, I am a little tentative to say too much as my knowledge is generally very imcomplete. I suggest that if recruiting is not forthcoming with adequate information, look to other recruiting branches or even call units directly. There are many young bograts (new pilots) who are only too happy to talk about their recent recruiting experiences.
I hope this is of some help !

PS the 10000 guy obtained most of his experience crop dusting and mustering I believe. Im not sure where. Needless to say he has just completed helicopter training and has been posted to the units. Good on him.

[*Lancer*]

Latest I've heard about eyesight is that the anti-laser policy will be relaxed, and if you're found to be not 100% sight-wise the next question is "would you be willing to undergo laser surgery"...

Hopefully the new policy gets through!

Lancer

[downwind]

yes Lancer,

The LASIK theory seems to be true, I know of a particular guy who got into the RAAF with laser correction, and some guys in there at the moment whose vision fell below 20/20 are allowed to where glasses, but I don't think they can fly the F18's or Hawks any comments on this???????:eek:

cheers d.w.

[Slezy9]

DOWNWIND

You can defeniatley wear glasses and fly the hawk and i am fairly certain you can wear them in the hornet

niner

[KAOS]

Guys,

Re: LASIK

I spoke to a doctor from processing just a few weeks ago, and I was told that LASIK is NOT acceptable! Only PRK is approved. This might change though! Apparently, since LASIK is only relatively new, there hasn't been enough study done on it's side effects. Both procedures still have the risk of your night vision becoming worse. You may experience day and night glare for the initial 4 weeks and this can last up to 3 months. Buyer beware!

Cheers,
K A O S:eek:

[scruzer]

At my C1 renewal a few months back the optho told me they believe lasik may make it more difficult in diagnosing Glaucoma as it hardens the eyeball or something like that.

[gijoe]

I've been reading this topic with great interest and have had a dig around the main ADF website but it didn't really answer some of my questions.

Are there any other websites, official or unofficial (the UK has the unofficial www.arsse.co.uk for the British Army which has a good wedge on the AAC), that might provide any more info ?

G

[RPPT]

gijoe,

What information are you after? What are some of your questions? Are they related to eyesight requirements, or flying in the Army? If you are more specific, maybe someone can help you.

[gijoe]

RPPT,

My situation - serving HM Forces (Army), commissioned and currently doing a second degree, want to try flying hels, passed all of the tests that Brit aircrew have to pass at Cranwell 'excellent scores' says testing bloke, no med probs, relatives all over Australia - but older than 28 which is the cutoff age in UK.

Why not try Australian Army Aviation ??

Q. Terms and conditions of service.
Q. Seniority for transfer (if possible).
Q. Med details (to make sure I have no probs - 6/4 unaided in both eyes at the moment).
Q. ....plus many more.

G

[RPPT]

gijoe, Check your private msg's.

[ArnhemDog]

Thanks all for your help, and advice.

[franksnbeans]

There was a topic on the military forum about a year ago now from memory, I'll try and find it.
But with regards to the RAAF eyesight standard, it is my understanding that the standard was very quietly lowered about 2 years ago now. I believe that it takes a long time to filter through the system. The new eyesight standards for all ADF aircrew recruits is as follows (from memory):
6/12 unaided vision total, max -1.00 myopia, max -0.5 myopic astigmatism. Unfortunately, I'm about two to three times worse than that limit.


As far as I'm aware, LASIK and PRK were permitted as of OCT 2001 under curtain circumstances. Have to have had good results and must have regular eye examinations for 5 years proceeding the surgery (again from memory). I'm too young for laser surgery, so I have a few years to ponder the pros and cons.

That is the information that I have, but before letting a stranger shoot a laser into your eyes, my advice is double check any information that your given by recruiting. And before having the proceedure done, check again. From my experience with recruiting, you really must, as the communication between them and the actual ADF 'head office' seems like that chinese whisper game, where the person at the end of the line gets a completely different piece of information to what was given out. :rolleyes: :mad:

rgds fnb

[huntsman]

Australian army, navy and air force recruitment will be partly privatised under a four-year, $220 million contract with international recruitment company Manpower.

http://theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/02/1033538674132.html

[Arm out the window]

With Manpower doing the recruiting, apparently you have to have no qualms about getting your gear off in front of a crowd of screaming pissed women, and have the old 6-pack abs.
I've actually got a carton, so meet the requirements by a factor of 4.

[Swingwing]

KAOS,

With regard to eyesight requirements, I was going to point you in the direction of the thread that franksnbeans mentioned. It was on Mil pilots somewhere (although somewhat less than a year ago I think). Search there and you will probably find it.

Having said that, from all the discussion there, I found franksnbeans to be far more informed than just about everyone else (that includes the military types). He knows all the numbers with regard to permissable eyesight standards, dioptre / correction numbers etc.
The only area in which he is incorrect on this thread is in regard to LASIK (and that's because it has changed so often.) I clarified the current situation with the chief doctor at AVMED during the last debate. There was a brief window of time where people who had had corrective laser surgery were allowed into the RAAF (and serving members were permitted to have the procedure). This decision was made in Canberra, without the full concurrence of the aviation medicine specialists, AND HAS NOW BEEN REVERSED, PENDING FURTHER RESEARCH!
I repeat, if you are considering both laser corrective surgery and a military flying career, THE TWO THINGS ARE CURRENTLY NOT COMPATIBLE!
This is not to say that LASIK will never be allowed, it's just that there is currently a paucity of information on the long term effects (as well as ejection issues and the like).

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I'd address my eyesight questions to f'n'b vice recruiting!!

Cheers,

SW

[203]

So does anyone have any info on the guts of the selection process other than med requirements?

IE The interview process?
Questions?
Team exercises?
Co-ordination exercises?
All that kind of poop?