CPL Navigation

[dlane]

I've just got my PPL and am planning on doing some hour building in America in the next few months.

I want to make the best use of my time there and so would like to 'practice' the Navigation section of the CPL course.

Can anyone help me with this i.e. What the syllabus involves, approximate length of legs, diversions, what examiners 'look' for and the standard required.

Any help will be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Capt BK]

WeyHey! My first post, hello all PPRuNers!

EGLG757, I'm in a similar position to you after completing my PPL in November. I am hoping to tuck a night rating under my belt within the next month and then do some hour building in the USA before I start a Distance ATPL course. I am assured that a decent school will organise a stuctured program but I would prefer to know what to put in there as well.

I would also like to ask the wealth of knowledge out there if it is worth doing a Multi Engine Rating at the same time?

Any comments appreciated.

CPK

All the best for the new year!

Just time to experiment with a Smiley :)

[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: Capt BK ]</p>

[Midland Maniac]

I have just finished my CPL, and this is what you have to do for the skills test (nav section).

You have to plan a dead reckoning leg of 30nm or more to a small town or disused airfield. Something that will be difficult to find. You then have to fly the route using VFR nav techniques. If you get off-track, you must regain track using an approved method.

When you get to the turning point you have to do a nav diversion which is another 30nm away. This has to be planned in the air and an account has to be made for the wind etc. When established on track, you become IMC and have to fix you position from either VOR\DME, or VHF pos fixing. You can also use RAW data GPS but if you can plot lat and long whilst flying you are a better pilot than what I am!!!!! After about 10 mins IF you have to visually fix your pos after the screens come down. Thats about it!!!

Good idea to get some practice in before you start CPL. Hope that helps. If you need anymore info, give me a shout.

MM <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[rolling circle]

Well, it just goes to show that you can pass these tests without 'understanding' anything! Let's see just how much Midland Maniac has 'misunderstood'...

1. There is no minimum or maximum distance applied to the first leg of the cross-country element of the CPL Skill Test.

2. The turning point does not have to be a small town or airfield and certainly does not have to be difficult to find. However, it is true to say that some examiners have a kind of inferiority complex which causes them to make life more difficult for the candidate than it should be, presumably to prove their own omnipitence.

3. It is not necessary to regain track in the event of a track error. It is, however, necessary to reach and identify the planned turning point.

4. There is no maximum or minimum distance applied to the diversion.

5. Fixing is not restricted to VOR/DME or 'VHF pos fixing' (whatever that is). You may fix your position, at any time after the first turning point, by any combination of VDF, VOR, DME or ADF. Current CAA guidance is that GPS should not be used as a primary navigation aid.

6. If you have been fixing your position accurately while the screens are up, it will not be necessary to take an academic fix when they are taken down.

Rather than accept the (at best) suspect advice available here, you would be well advised to download Standards Document 3 (Notes for the Guidance of Applicants Taking the CPL Skill Test (Aeroplanes)) from the FCL website. Should your examiner stray outside the provisions of that document, you have a case for appeal under Regulation 6(5) of the Civil Aviation Regulations.

[Matthewjharvey]

Rolling circle, you are a little pedantic I think, Midland Maniac managed to convey a pretty good gist of the requirements of the CPL skills test for those that asked about it. Do you need to prove your 'omnipotence' for some reason?

[BEagle]

In a professional world, it is important to have the correct information. If Rolling Circle appears pedantic, it's probably because he's trying to be as accurate with his guidance as possible. I'm not going to be drawn on the 'making the turning point' v. 'regaining track' discussion with RC - we've agreed to disagree on that in the past! Each has its own merit....

Anyway, The First Lesson is read from the Gospel of the Flight Examiners' Handbook, beginning at Appendix 3 Section 3 - Navigation:

And the Lord Examiner spake unto the applicant and said "If thou art a true and worthy applicant, thou wilst have read the CAA Standards Document 3 - Notes for the guidance of Applicants. Now, therefore, I ask to see thy map and thy PLOG. Thou shalt also state how thou camest to decide heading, MSA and fuel requirements. And I ask thee - is a PLOG necessary? Thou art commanded to tell me thy heading, altitude and ETA as soon as thou hast decided these. If thou later changeth these, then shall thou also tell me.

I may check thy PLOG after the flight, I shall keep mine own PLOG, worry thee not about that which I shall be scribing.

Dost thou know of any NOTAMs or Royal Flights?

The first leg shall be navigated purely visually; thou mayest not use radio aids for fixing on the first leg, but may prepare thy navaids for use on the next leg. But should I desire that such navaids shallt be detuned, then verily shall I reinstate them for the second leg.

Continue to navigate to thy turning point until I advise thee of a diversion. Then, when thou hast calculated them, advise me of thy revised heading, altitude and ETA when thou canst. Continue visually until I advise thee that we hath encountered IMC. I will assist thee with thy erection of thy screens. Whilst under the screens I shall be thy safety pilot and may amend thy choice of altitude or FL. Thou shall however, continue to be responsible for navigation and ATC liaison.

Continue to navigate to thy diversion and take radio fixes as thou so desirest. Thou mayest use any fixing facility except Radar position and GPS/RNAV, but thou mayest use GPS/RNAV to confirm a fix that thou hast already made. I may require that thou takest a radio fix, log it and plottest it on thy map.

Then shall I help thee remove the screens, continue to navigate to the diversion in VMC using visual or radio aids as thou so desirest. Thou mayst orbit the diversion point, should thou so wish.

Having completed the navigation element, then shall I require thee to intercept and track to or from a radio navigation facility radial of my choice which may not be the one which thou hath already used. However, I may include this requirement within thy earlier navigation"

And the applicant listened unto the Examiner and became calm. For he had practised with diligence under his FI and knew not to be afraid.

Here endeth the lesson.