Some advice on ATPL training

[Gliderguy]

Hi,
I'm looking to draw on your experiences with doing the full time ATPL courses at one of the Air Training colleges in the UK.

Neither myself or my parents have the finances to pay the £50,000 or so to do the course, but I am so desperate to fly for a living I'll do virtually anything.
I think I'm a fairly competent switched on sort of guy and I have been gliding for 6 years (Since I was 14 years old) so I rekon I'd make the course okay. My problem is with the financial risk involved. I am prepared to take out a loan for this huge amount if I'm fairly sure I can get a job afterwards.
One of my work colleagues did the ATPL course in the states (Via parents who could afford it!) and admittedly he's not the most motivated person in the world but he hasn't had any interest in him at all.
I don't see many adverts for 'Fresh-out-of-school' pilots either which is worrying.

What I would like to hear from the wide and varied experience of this forum is whether you think jobs are out there for people after they have passed the course. I'd go to work for an airline for £15,000 a year if they promised me a contract of a few years!

Thanks for reading this far!! Positive and Negative feedback is invited and I hope to meet you someday when I eventually make it!

[scroggs]

It would seem to me that sponsorship would be the ideal thing for you. Check out the BA and BM websites for details of their schemes. I'm sure others here will give you more info. If you're as motivated as you sound, you may well persuade an airline to pay the whole lot for you - and, of course, there should be a job at the end of it!

[Tip tank]

Try some of the scholarships too in the meantime. GAPAN and The Air League spring to mind.
It would probably get you as far as the PPL, so you could follow the modular route over time if you are unsuccessful with the sponsorship route.

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...was that TO or FROM?

[Going Around & Around]

I think if it's really what you want, then you will find some way of doing it. As said above, try every sponsorship going. They are very competitive and the more obscure ones (and those where some of the cost is in involved) will get fewer applicants.
I think there are probably thousands out there who would do the training if they could have a job guaranteed at the end - unfortunately, whatever the schools may tell you, it's not quite that straightforward. Should you decide to borrow the money from somewhere, do it with your eyes wide open. I have just got my first job with less than 200 hours, 10 months after finishing Ab-initio training and while it's been a pretty frustrating time, there are many on this forum that will tell you they are waiting or have waited longer! However, I can now say that the wait was worth it, eventually!!!!

Basically, what i'm saying is, if you really want it and you are willing to work ruddy hard and accept the luck factor...Go on, do it. There are a few jobs for those that are below advertised thresholds - You just need perseverance, contacts (if possible) and finally luck!

[Pilot Pete]

To put it bluntly, there are no guarantees of anything after qualification. some do get jobs flying large jet a/c straight out of training, but there are many more who do not. Search on my username and you will see plenty of replies to similar questions in previous postings.

The bottom line is, if you really want to do it you have to give it everything, apply to everyone again and again, take anything you can get, but IMHO keep building hours in any way, on anything as you do not look more desireable to an airline 1 year after qualification with the same number of hours that you had 1 year earlier. It doesn't get any easier with issue of a shiny CPL/IR.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

PP

[low flyer]

Yes, you can go to the states. It used to be thought that airlines would be less happy with an American gained licence than a UK one - don't know if it still applies. I'm inclined to think that in the age of the JAA it probably matters less where you do your training.

It's not impossible to get a bank loan to pay for the ATPL course - but it is very difficult. At least one person on our course at BAe had one from Barclays, but the Royal Bank laughed me out of the office (politely of course). Do career development loans still exist? Okay it's only £8000 but it's better than a slap on the face.

Have you thought about doing it in bits? I think you still can. Start as a general dogsbody at a flying school, get some cheap lessons towards a PPL, get some experience. Get a CPL, become an instructor, get more experience etc. It's not exactly handy for you, but some of the pilot's at Bristol Flying Centre did exactly like that, and there are others following in their footsteps.

You're quite right when you say that you don't see many adverts for 'straight from school' pilots. Partially this is because the airlines have so many people applying to them on spec that they often don't bother advertising entry-level jobs. Mainly though, this is because there aren't very many jobs for brand new pilots. Don't believe anything you may hear or read of a pilot shortage. Aviation uses different definitions to other people. A shortage is when the number of applicants for each position drops into three figures!! (okay I exaggerate, but there's quite a bit of truth in it anyway).

Going through the self-improver route (dogsbody-PPL-CPL-AFI etc) Has several advanatges. Firstly you get paid as you do it. Secondly, you probably build up lots more hours. Thirdly, if you can get in at a place that does lots of aerial work (photography, traffic reports, air taxi etc) you not only get paid to fly, but you get to log genuine commercial hours in your book. All of this will improve your chances.

Perhaps that makes it sound like self-inprover is the obvious choice over approved course. It has disadvantages: you'll have to develop the knack of living on fresh air for a few years being the main one. But you're only 20 which is a huge advantage. Airlines like 'em young, and you've still got plenty of time to qualify.

I suppose you've thought of sponsorship? Look elsewhere in wannabes, but Aer Lingus and BA are worth a shout. Very little chance but you're proven interest will help you and getting it all paid for by someone else, with a guaranteed job at the end of it is the cheapest and best way of learning by far.

Do lots of research - visit airlines (or at least write to them). Most will ignore you, but any snippets you can pick up will be useful - perhaps to drop into the conversation at an interview. Be very careful before parting with any money that what you think you're paying for is what you're going to get, and that it will be valid in this country - check with the CAA.

Finally - the very best of luck to you.