Unionism is dead outside of AIPA & FAAA

[CAYNINE]

It appears the only representation around that is effective these days is with AIPA and the FAAA.

AIPA has secured the Australian Airlines crewing requirements and, well, the FAAA have never lost a battle/war and appear to be able to dictate the requirements that their members operate under.

Why is it then that the rest of the industry struggle to gain the results of these two?

I know there are a lot of you out there that are asking the same questions, I hear it all the time in the work place, so what do we all need to do to be represented in a way we can all be comfortable with?

Would AIPA be interested in representing other groups outside of QANTAS, or is that a closed shop?

[AN LAME]

You have GOT to be kidding?

[Keg]

Caynine, I've said it before and I'll say it again that AIPA can't go anywhere marketing itself for new members, the membership of airline X have to approach AIPA as a group and ask to be represented.

That said, a union is only as good as it's weakest member and ultimately, it is the resolve of the individuals within that membership to ensure how weak or strong your union is. Strong unions require both strong (and effective) leadership as well as a strong sense of unity within the membership.

Those that bag out AIPA as being ham strung etc need to see the reality of unions as they are, not how they want them to be. Based upon reality, the job AIPA does is pretty good. Not perfect, but it could be a LOT worse. Last EBA was one of the better ones we've ever had- despite protestations about no pay rise. Also, they could have played hard ball on going for current pay and conditions on Australian and they would have lost that flying forever to the former AN 767 drivers still wanting to get back in the saddle and had that flying go to 'others' forever- ultimately to the expense of some QF jobs as Australian expands into some former QF routes.

Sure, the pay IS a small drop (about 5% from what I can gather for a Captain, F/Os depending on seniorority could take a pay rise!!) and some of the conditions aren't there but at least the guarantee of future opportunities is still there for the pilot group and surely THAT has to be 'in the best interests' of the (overall) membership. Some individual members may believe they are worse off but the overall membership is in a better position now because of that flying being crewed by QF crew.

You watch every man and his dog apply for the southern base when it opens!!! :eek:

I think I know where AN LAME is coming from but because he or she makes a smart alec comment without leaving any further thoughts it is hard to work out how fair dinkum he or she is! :D

[AN LAME]

Keg
Pretty fair criticism of my last post although I wasn't being a smart alec I was simply astonished at the lack of awareness of the ALAEA's work in the industry.
Currently LAMEs employed at VB enjoy slightly higher comparable pay rates for a single type rating (~$80k dual 737 classic)to their colleagues at Qantas due to the involvement of the ALAEA in the initial EBA negotiations. From what I read on this forum that is significantly different to Flight Crew.
At Forstaff Avalon, what started as a part time fixed term contract for all workers there has developed into full time employment with identical award rates to QF mainline excepting Staff Travel (which I believe is being negotiated now) and QF Superannuation. Once again negotiated by the ALAEA through some fairly harrowing bargaining.
The ALAEA is currently actively fighting against what it and it's members perceive to be a lessening of safety standards in Air Transport.( which you may or may not agree with)
They have negotiated EBAs on behalf of thousands of members with numerous Regional, Charter and GA employers.
Whilst the above appears to be pissing in the pocket of the ALAEA, I post so that some may gain a perception of what a single Industry union should be doing - representing all members in all sectors of that single industry. It was my understanding that AIPA's membership can be from various carriers. Surely all one needs do is apply?
Where did you think I was coming from Keg?

[CAYNINE]

KEG,

I was actually showing support for your organisation as it appears to be able to achieve results with your management and provides exceptional support structures to the members, the crux of the issue here is that you have an organisation that works well and even though you will never please all the people all the time you still get results that are negotiated and put to the members that are positive and create a developing attitude of keeping the Company from totally screwing you.

We unfortunately do not have that same repore with any organisation.

This is not a slag session of any other organisation postulating as a representative of pilots, but merely an inquiry into the possibility of AIPA representing a group of pilots that are in the Q system but not generally recognised as such by the Company.

I understand you can't canvass, but are we able to apply and join?

ANLAME makes the comment that you represent several different groups, could you represent ours?

[Sopwith Pup]

Caynine...... as Keg said "AIPA can't go anywhere marketing itself for new members". It is an industrial law to do with poaching off other unions.
There is nothing to stop a group of people going to AIPA and asking how to be covered, AIPA would then be able to inform them on how to do so. It is slightly more complicated than joining a club and therefore if you and your mates are still interested, contact AIPA.