Advice - age/experience

[999]

At the age of 40 I am considering a career change and very much hope to take up a position as a commercial pilot.

Having read a number of messages on this site, airlines appear to pay significant regard to an individuals potential to deal with mangerial issues including CRM and the wider role of managing the organisation which provides the service to the customer, in addition to flying potential/ability.

I am a senior manager in one of the UK's largest emergency services. Having served in a number of positions over the past 21 years, I am currently responsible for managing a divison of 350 operational personnel and a discretionary spend budget of £1/3million. In addition I rountinely take responsibility for command at a range of emergency incidents.

My academic background includes 'A' levels in maths and physics and a Masters Degree in Business Administration from one of the UK's leading business schools.

Flying experience is limited to time spent in the Air Cadets many years ago, current interests include flying radio control aeroplanes.

The questions are; how much of an issue is age, can the other factors these out-weigh the number 40? What is the chance of gaining employment/paid training with an airline?

The Aer Lingus CEP scheme for example does not state a maximum age, are there any other issues that I need to consider, do other airlines operate similar schemes to Aer Lingus?.

All replies gratefully received.

[RichT]

999,
You are unlikely to get any paid training or sponsorship. I am sure that experience and management skills would out weigh the age issue when applying for a job. Ask yourself the following questions:
Can you afford the training?
Will your family put up with it?
Could you put up with £20k as a first officer?
If the answer to all of these is yes then get yourself a class 1 medical and go for it.
If not do a PPL and fly for fun.
RichT

------------------
RichT
Whoop Whoop! Wake Up Wake Up!

[steven]

May I say past the age of 28-30 Airlines won't even look at you for sponsorship. This is not a downer on older candidates as they have more experience in life and have a proven track record of professionalism. Like you say your extensive managerial experience would definatly hold alot of weight in your favour. However an airline will only sponsor a younger candidate because they have more flying experience left in them. Therefore the airlines really get their worth after investing the best part of 50K into you.

CAN I PLEASE STRESS this is not a complete bar to Airline entry. Sadly though you are looking at having to self fund your training like everyone else. Your age isn't a problem. I know of someone who got his first airline job when he was 52. This guy had guts to invest all the time and money into flying, and thinking of him reminds me that if you want to do something and really want it you just have to go and get it.
Another person I know of retired from one of the emergancy services in his mid forties and payed for his training and walked straight into the right hand seat of one of the UK's leading Airlines.

I suggest you find out about Modular Training and then get back to us with any questions.

[eject]

Well 999 that's at least two of us! I'm another beginning life. Also have science A levels, Masters Degree (Engineering) etc. I'm planning to go to US in May to commence training. I have 25hrs but effectively starting from new. Intention is to spend 3 months then return to possibly OATS modular study. Having read posts from fellow Ppruners, I'm inclined to take US exams also; not with a view of converting necessarily but to make best use of my time.
I'd be interested to hear from you and wish you luck. Go for it!

[aces low]

Better make that three of us. Currently giving up day job, selling house, borrowing money and studying hard (sometimes hardly). So far 210 hours, 7 passes in the ground exams with module two on the way. Given my age and resources, I have decided to go CPL/FI route this year then after I have a substantial number of hours, go for the IR in 2002. I will then be 41. Employable...definitely! With the airlines, maybe. Who knows. But its what I'm going to do, and I'm going to enjoy it on the way. I may never recoup my investment and loss of earnings (opportunity costs), but it was what I am meant to do. So there.

[Pilot Pete]

Well said Aces Low! If you really want to do it you will succeed BUT don't kid yourself, your age IS a factor with an awful lot of employers although of course they won't admit it. There are undoubtably many airlines who will consider you for employment but you do have an extra factor against you compared to younger Wannabees.

Think of it from the 'hirers' point of view. A number of operators have a bulge in those not a million miles from retirement already, it has taken them some time to get round to addressing this and now they have they need to spread the demograph more evenly which means hiring from the other end now.

Don't want to spoil the party too much just get you thinking, and lets face it, if you have the yearning and the determination required to succeed in this industry nothing I or anyone else says is going to stop you!

I wish you all the best of luck, but do remember it is going to take you 2 years absolute minimum to get a CPL/IR and around 200-250hrs experience. That's the minimum requirement for an F/O position but DO read all the other posts on this forum from people out there with this qualification and considerably more hours who cannot get employment. It is a very tough industry to break into.

Good luck with your decision and careers............

PP

[thefridge]

Hi 999
Where there's the will there's a way.

I started my flying at the age of 48 with the PPL, then at 49 went for the CPL ground exams, studied and passed them in 14 months.

At 51 went to the States for 55 hours building then completed the CPL course and exam, followed that with the JAA Flying Instructors course and exam.

Then went seaching for a job and had to wait 5 months for a break which I have just got.

Will be instucting for the next 12 weekends at a school at Biggin Hill.

Never tried to plan too far ahead. All self financed, and most of it completed whilest holding down senior management posts in the Printing Industry.

Lot of hard work and fun. You have to love flying, and have an understanding wife and children, as well as a good bank manager.

I still have dreams of making it in to airlines, and you never know, pigs might just fly, I do believe I may have seen a few around. :)

Good luck with your decision, and dont give up work just yet. If you want any further information or advice e-mail. Good advice to the over 40's and over 50's free of charge, (not much is free in the aviation industry)

[MarathonMan]

999

First of all, thank you for making me feel like a spring chicken at 29 years of age. I had been feeling a little old.

I am like many, in search of the holy grail - when you wake up in the morning and can't wait to get to work.

I have recently applied for a place on a partial sponsorship scheme with a major airline. This is my first attempt to get into the airline industry having achieved fair success in a financially rewarding yet personally unsatisfying career for the last seven years.

If this application goes pear shaped then I'll look at the self funding route.

I find it amusing that you effectively offer to pay £40k to train yourself added to loss of earnings that can total a further £150k over five years, yet you are still asked to demonstrate motivation!

Re pilots with all the relevant qualifications, hours etc. yet still no joy.

All organisations have the same basic criteria when evaluating whether a potential employee is suitable/employable. These are:

Can they do the job? - qualifications etc.
Will they do the job? - motivation etc.
Are they manageable/ will they fit in?

Attainment of the relevant qualifications does not guarantee a job as there are other things to consider.

I believe that attainment of the relevant qualifications backed up with a track record of excellence, experience of teamworking, management of teams etc. should allow the individual to market themselves as an attractive candidate, thereby maximising their chances of success.

That's what I've been telling the wife anyway.

cheers

[This message has been edited by MarathonMan (edited 28 January 2001).]

[JimNich]

999,

hate to put a downer on your aspirations mate (and my own as I am in a similar situation) but age is a MAJOR hurdle out there in "airline hiring" world.

I'm a RAF FE and three years away from my exit at age 40. Like many of my collegues I am going through the self sponsored route to my ATPLs. Nearly all of the 40 year olds (non-pilot) who have left recently have failed to get employment in a right hand seat job (and I'm talking about people with 4000 odd hours flight deck experience here). One, a good friend of mine, was the only person on his multi IR course to get a first time pass yet is the only one of the whole group not to get employment. He went to plenty of interviews but the message was clear, "if only you were ten years younger!"

I'm sorry if this all sounds a little pessimistic but forewarned is fore-armed and all that......anyway, it isn't stopping me but I thought you might like to hear how similar aged people are fairing at the moment.

[RichT]

A few commercial facts I think are required here. Most pensions if not all new pensions are money purchase based and not final salery linked. It therefore makes no difference to an employer if he is hiring a 50 year old or a 20 year old. As for replacing retiring pilots with youngsters that also doesn't make commercial sense. You need a layer of experienced people. I am not saying that an older newby would fullfil this role but neither would a younger man/woman. It is often said that an older man is harder to train/teach. The fact is, in this case in particular, you have less to teach him. No need for management training etc. He has a proven track record in dealing with people and stressful situations.

I know who I would choose as an employer.