Kneeboards

[What-ho Squiffy!]

Allo again Prunesters...

Does anybody know where to get hold of a decent kneeboard that isn't the size of a card table? I no longer have my custom made jobbie, and woud like to find a replacement. I used to work with someone that had a very small bi or tri fold kneeboard (can't remember exactly), and it was roughly 5x7 inches folded up.

I have done a pretty exhaustive search on the web, and all I can find are those ridiculously huge versions that can do everything including cure cancer...

Anybody have any ideas?

[the coyote]

I use the $35 one from Skylines, its a piece of aluminium with a clip on top and an elastic strap. Not too big at all, and does me just fine.

Whoever thought they should be a mobile office with 48 pockets maybe sees the kneeboard for more than what it really is.....just something to write on and read from.

[flygunz]

The better kneeboards are US made, if you follow these links you may get one.
My suggestion is to find someone who is doing a military course there and get one brought back, unless the postage is cheap!

http://flywings.com/

http://www.wings-aviation.com/

[SASless]

Wings in Daleville, Alabama make a very nice kneeboard....comes in all sorts of sizes and layouts.....send them a copy of your wings and they will embroider your name and wings on the thing for you at some nominal cost. I use the trifold cordura model....and love it. Nice big fat elastic band with velcro for holding the thing to your wobbling knee....enough pockets but still small enough to be comfy.

[GLSNightPilot]

Sporty's Pilot Shop has them, Sporty's Trifold Kneeboard (http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=1244643&St=5562&St2=64531640&St3=-31543277&DS_ID=2&Product_ID=978&DID=19) US$32.50 !!!! Everything Sporty's has is expensive.

I made my own from a fluorescent yellow (so I can see it & remember to take it out of the aircraft) plastic clipboard I got at WalMart & cut down to size, & some elastic & Fastex buckles. The clipboards should be available at office supply stores. Works great, less expensive. I added a clip to hold a pen, which was the most expensive part of the whole thing.

[flygunz]

Ah Daleville, the US armys fighter town!!;)
The best thing about Daleville is the all night diner that serves the most disgusting breakfast burritto ever. Dont have to eat the next day, sheer joy!!

[soggyboxers]

Marvin Golden Aviation discount sales (www.marvgolden.com) do a reasonable selection of kneeboards. I've been using the ASA tri-fold kneeboard (US$ 26.95) for a while and it folds up quite neatly and is reasonably made nfor the price.

[ravenx]

I'm left handed and what always amazes me is how you right handed geezers manage to use a board at all. Left handed means I only have to let go of the collective to use the board, but right handed means you have to let go of the cyclic - how do you do that ????

[Barannfin]

I too am looking for tips in helping me to write down while flying. Its hard for me to remember all of my clearances and such. maybe i should just train myself to write lefty.

[Aesir]

I just switch on my AFCS in my B222, leaves my hands free to write... What NOT all helos have autopilots???

[GLSNightPilot]

Well, usually I write while my copilot flies, or vice versa. ;) However, it's completely feasible to write & fly, especially in a turbine. One of the first things I learned in the TH55 was to fly with my knees, while lighting a cigarette with gopher matches, which required the use of both hands. If I need to fly & write, I either fly with my left hand or with my knees, while I write, but a decent AFCS makes it easier. I keep my kneeboard on my left leg anyway, so it's not under my arm while I'm flying with my arm on my right knee/thigh.

[B Sousa]

Some of you may even use these things. The best one I have found and its the same one, same model I have used for many years can be located on www.Sportys.com Its a lighted kneeboard that is originally manufactured for the military. Obviously Sportys and I guess others buy them for resale.
They work very good.
One little problem that plagues them is that you can lose the cap for the battery compartment, thus a big problem. Where do you find a replacement cap. I looked all over and folks just seem to say. We just sell the whole thing.
So after a search on the internet for the manufacturer, I gave them a call and explained the problem. They said not to worry and will mail me a couple caps.
Thought that was kind of neat. So if any of you have these kneeboards and need some help. They are manufactered by
Precision Polymer MFG in Kalamazoo MI and can be contacted at
269-344-2044.
Another Product that gets my vote for good support.

[Oogle]

Kneeboards

An absolute necessity for single pilot ops. Keeps everything nice and handy.

To make it easier, put it on your left leg so it doesn't interfere with your "cyclic arm". :8

[Rick in Dixie]

How many of you ever lost critical paper work during flight because a kneeboard suddenly came unstrapped and scattered in the floor ? and have they ever interfeared with your collective or cyclic movement ?

[SASless]

How much paperwork does it take to interfere with the collective?

[PhilJ]

"How much paperwork does it take to interfere with the collective"

The school I work at creates so much paperwork for dispatching, checking in a flight and student progress that it interferes with the collective ever being raised.

[Chickenhawk1]

I have one of those ultimate kneeboards with the upright binder rings, I also recently did an IR in a R22. That stupid T-bar kept hitting the rings . OK, I know it's a case of small helo, big kneeboard, but seriously, it nearly got dropped with or without hazard to people or property below!

[Gomer Pylot]

I don't keep much on the kneeboard, even for a long IFR trip. All I want is my flight plan, my clearance, and some note paper. I put the approach plate there for the approach, in some aircraft, but that's about all. Company paperwork and everything else goes somewhere else. I have seen kneeboards interfere with the controls temporarily, but it's quickly sorted out, by yelling "Get your damned kneeboard out of the way!!!". IMO, using large kneeboards and keeping the kitchen sink on them is a mistake, and causes trouble in the long run. I don't recall flying with any experienced IFR pilots who used large kneeboards, and many don't use one at all.

[finalchecksplease]

Talking about kneeboards reminded me of this accident in the USA:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=LAX93FA369&rpt=fa
Greetings
Finalchecksplease

[Ioan]

Here's another accident almost directly linked:
http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resources/G-CCHZ%201-06.pdf

Guy comes lands at an airfield in an R22, while hover taxiing (with wind from the left), needs to move the cyclic to the left. Cyclic catches under his kneeboard attachment strap, heli starts drifting right. He tries to free the cyclic but in doing so lifts his foot off the left pedal. Heli rapidly yaws right, right skid contacts the ground, and the heli rolls over.

I've personally never lost paperwork in the air, nor has my kneeboard come undone. In the 22s though I find kneeboards a real pain in the backside. There just isn't the room for them, it DOES interfere with the cyclic. I try to twist it round so that a similar accident never occurs to me, but I still don't like wearing it.

Personally I'm considering getting some kind of flightsuit, perhaps one of the transair ones. Might look a **** and I've no doubt I'll get the piss taken by some - being PPL not mil - but those clear plastic windows on the knees look a far better idea.

ps - I've never lost paperwork in flight. Please tell me i'm not the only one though who's come in and landed with lots of people watching - nice landing, shut down - then open the door and have a cascade of maps, papers etc fall out all over the floor. Kinda loses the cool image when you spend the next 30 seconds chasing papers round the airfield :hmm:

[CYHeli]

Knee boards, does anyone actually use them in helicopters?
(I know our fixed wing cousins love them)
Any feed back on good bad or otherwise.
VFR vs IFR?
Any brands stand out?
Or basically have the modern fleet of GPS choices made them redundant?

[birrddog]

CYHeli, If I am doing cross country or going through multiple frequencies or flying somewhere new or havn't flown a while, I'll take along a strap-on ;)

Depending on how organized I am feeling I create a template on the computer with the details and put the frequencies (or ATIS if I'm really feeling organized and at a computer at the airfield).

I have a Pooleys HB-1 which has foam padding and as quite comfortable, I also have another one which is metal and has clips that takes slide out plastic folders so that you can slide in paper, maps, approach plates, etc.

The latter is definately the way to go if you have a lot of information so you don't have to faff arround, you can just flip over to the next section.

It also has a need pen and pencil holder.

Doing the google thing, I think the kneeboard with the flip charts is a Jeppesen 3 ring knee-board. It is buried in another flightbag somewhere... clearly I don't use it that often.

[choppadan]

I fly as a glorified taxi driver in Sunny England. I wear mine mostly out of habit. I find it handy because you never know when you might want to jot something down. Normally just thinks like T/O time just before I lift, or landing time, what fuel I bought where, etc...

My map never lives on it but I do find it useful to clip my map/airfield map on for cross country or unfamiliar airfield stuff, it just keeps another hand free.

Moral of the story; I never know when I'm going to use, sometimes it doesn't even get used. But it can free up a hand, normally when your trying to think about serveral things at once.

What to look for? Biggest thing for me in a helo, would be one that isn't too wide. Most plank ones are pretty fat. If you have high collective and need to apply back/left cyclic it can get in the way (which is not useful!!!). Apart from that, make sure the pen holder is on the side not along the top because it makes it a pain in the ... to clip anything onto it with one hand.

Hope thats useful

[sunnywa]

Always have used one and never without. It has all my 'stuff' in it - ranging from whiz wheels, copies of relevant IAL plates for the area, aircraft timing log sheets, make up, etc. And with my current a/c, a BK, I have it on my right thigh to lift my wrist up to hold the cyclic better. No set type, used hard and soft ones. Having one that you can easily view the plate is better in my opinion.
:)

[800]

Its all a personal preference.

I always use one.

I admit you can't use a wide one in say an R22 or H269, but the bigger the aircraft you fly is when they certainly come in handy.

[HOGE]

I don't use a strap on kneeboard, it just gets in the way. Just use a small clipboard to hold the paperwork, cost $1.94 from Wal-mart, and holds things just as effectively as all the fancy expensive pilot ones.

[NotHomeMuch]

Don't use one either found that they get in the way and that the ink runs when your sweat drips onto it. As per HOGE a cheap clip board does the trick or just a note book in the pocket.

[bleepup]

I'll take along a strap-on http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif



Hmmmmm sounds interesting, now thats taking customer care to the max!:eek:

[BedakSrewet]

Check out the Electronic Flight Bag ( EFB ) on www.navaero.com (http://www.navaero.com)

Soon to appear in helicopters.

[kevin_mayes]

Hmm runs on widows, so it'll take ages to boot and crash just when you need it most...

[misterbonkers]

I'll stick with my good old kneeboard and pen - although they sit on the floor whilst flying.

[ReverseFlight]

When I first started to fly navs in my heli training I used an A5-sized kneeboard but since maps, flight plans and other reminder sheets were often of different sizes, I was later taught to ditch my kneeboard altogether - just clip everything together in one bundle and put it between your back and your seatback when you are busy taking off, then retrieve it later for map reading or log recording. That works surprisingly well.

[B Sousa]

I have to have one as I have to do a lot of writing on each leg of the flight. Best one out there and one I have used for years is found here.

Deluxe Lighted Kneeboard - Sporty's Pilot Shop (http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=1475)

[bast0n]

I wear two rubber ones when pruning roses.....................

[Mr Grimsdale]

...that's an interesting mental image.:uhoh::E

[Gomer Pylot]

I use one, because I need to write down times, coordinates, and other stuff, and I need a pad handy. I see no need for anything fancy, though. I have a cheap clipboard cut down to size, with some elastic and a fastex buckle attached, run through slots I cut in the sides. Most of the time it's slid to the side of my leg, but I can get it back on top quickly when necessary. It's a convenience more than a necessity, but I'm all for convenience if it's not at the expense of utility.

[gnow]

I do not need to use kneeboards now as my machine comes with a map/chart holder on each side. When I was using kneeboards I find that those sold in the market are cumbbersome and at times can restrict the collective movement. I had actually made a homemade cloth strap(about 2 inches wide) from an old uniform trousers and on top of it is a transparent plastic to slot the map / chart in.. The ends are held together by velcro. By far, I find my "invention" (patent pending) to be the best. If anyone needs more details, PM me for some photos! It is still free of charge!

[windowseatplease]

I used to use this when I flew onshore. Very good.

Wings Aviation Products (http://wings-aviation.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=188&osCsid=0bfd5abe124526d022da70ef48dbc251)

Most fixed wing kneeboards are too big for small heli cockpits (esp the R22)

[B Sousa]

I wear two rubber ones when pruning roses.....................
Or when asking for a pay raise.

[Trans Lift]

I use the reversible soft-G kneeboard. Pretty handy, hold everything you need. I'd also recommend the flip pockets for extra bits of info, etc.

[SASless]

I used this version for decades....and used the small E6B aluminum computer issued to me by the US Army in 1967 right up to the day I gave up flying. It was made of cordura, had an elastic strap to hold it to your leg, included a small clipboard that held a small writing tablet and would also hold approach plates. The clear panel on the right hand side could hold a checklist sheet or some other item that was handy....approach chart...local area map...frequency chart....girl friend's phone number.

https://www.pilotmall.com/images/graphics/00000001/Kb_3lbig.jpg

[CYHeli]

Thanks for the replies.
I had not used one during training and as time goes on I still try to learn from those around me and could certainly see the need, task dependant.
I made up one of my own from my old Police tactical thigh rig that was designed to hold a holster, holster removed. Then added clips and rings. It wasn't too bad, but I thought that I would see what others found worked before I spent hard earned. Considering the cost of suits, helmets, etc, a knee board is cheap.
The comments are all true about size and in my last job we were using an R22 and B206, often with doors off due to heat (40+C) and/or filming so paperwork had to be secured! I now float b/n AS350, B206 and R44, but I only fly as a casual.

One other question, only one person above stated which knee they wore it on. I normally had my on my left thigh and tried to take notes left handed, although I normally write with my right hand. Also if I had extra pages that could flip out of the way, they hung down to the left next to the collective. I was avoiding changing hands on the cyclic to write or flip. Any thoughts?

[Bomb Doctor]

Aerostitch do some handy products for bikers which are useful for flying too.....

Forearm Map Case :: Map Bags :: Packing It In :: Aerostich/RiderWearHouse Motorcycle Jackets, Suits, Clothing, & Gear (http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Forearm-Map-Case-p-16196.html)

[TipCap]

I use mine in the simulator all the time for my OPC's and LPC's but not in the aircraft

[birrddog]

CYHeli, I use mine on my left leg, so I always have my right hand on my cyclic.

That way it is easy to drop the pen/pencil if need be and get your hand on the collective (like when in a machine with a loose collective trim, or if the situation calls for it).

Easier to discard a pen than switch hands on the cyclic.

To me it's worth the bad handwriting!

[Gomer Pylot]

I wear it on my right leg, because I can't write left-handed. When not writing, I rotate it ~90 degrees to the right, so it's on the side of my leg, and I can rest my arm on my thigh. To write, I bring it back on top, and fly with my left hand.

[Demented]

Forget the knnebaord just grab a roll of paper towel and write on that, can clean the window with the left overs.......make sure it is recycled paper and you are helping the greenies too :)

[SASless]

Um,

I did not say when it became "my" girlfriend's number....but a suggested place for the other guy's girlfriend's phone number....makes it easy to steal!

From your method.....did we fly together some time?

[B Sousa]

Come on SaSless, the whiz wheel is in the Army Museum.....:D

[EN48]

I wouldnt (couldnt) fly without a suitable kneeboard - sort of like a security blanket! The only one I have found satisfactory for helicopters is made by Sky High Gear. What makes it work so well, among other features, is its small size - will even work in a toy helicopter (R22):rolleyes: Made of ballistic nylon with sewn in padding on backside to conform to leg. About 5in x 7in size with several loops to hold pens and a small flashlight, etc. Velcro is used to allow a certain amount of customization (right knee, left knee, right handed, left handed) etc. I checked www.skyhighgear.com (http://www.skyhighgear.com) and dont see this listed. Possibly discontinued, but I see it is still available at my local pilot shop. Best of all, about $30 U.S. If you need a "kitchen sink" kneeboard (will hold every possible piece of flying gear) this may not be for you, but otherwise highly recommended after trying almost every kneeboard known to man.:ok:

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: This kneeboard is part of a "system" I have evolved over decades of plank flying, and more recently have adapted to helicopters. One of my SOP's is to have on board a written (printed) trip plan for any flight that leaves the traffic pattern of my home airport. This includes charts (enroute, approach, airport diagrams), detailed flight log, W&B, comprehensive printed wx brief, etc. This may seem like a great burden (and perhaps overkill) for shorter flights, but it is a 3-5 minute execrise with modern flight planning software. I use Jeppesen FliteStar and it readlily prints all of this in kneeboard size as a "trip kit." As far as it being overkill, maybe, but reviewing this material before flight is something I consider a "safety enhancement," and if something unanticipated happens during the flight, much of what I might need in the way of info is right there on the kneeboard. While I carry "official" paper charts on board for every flight, with an FMS, back up GPS and the Jepp trip kit, I very rarely have a need to open a chart in flight (usually to locate an obscure intersection in an amended ATC IFR clearance). I find that rule-of-thumb calculations done done in the head are more than sufficient in flight, and cant imagine trying to use a whiz wheel or even a calculator flying a helicopter single pilot (unless, perhaps, equipped with an autopilot). No doubt, more than most wanted to know! :E

[B Sousa]

Mentioning Kneeboards. There is only one that I have used for many years. Competitive priced at: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=1475

[Gomer Pylot]

Um..., I agree with you. I haven't used a whiz wheel or calculator or anything except my head for calculating things in a long time. The GPS does most of the calculation if you need it to, but all I want from it is my remaining flight time. With that, I can figure fuel and everything else without a lot of thought, and even if I don't have that, I can come up with a close-enough estimate of the remaining time from the airspeed and a quick guess at the wind. I did it that way for many years offshore, before the GPS came along, and my navigation equipment consisted of a wet compass, a watch, and an ADF tuned to a commercial onshore station to provide music. It ain't rocket science, but it does require some practice. I've seen, and tried, other systems rather than a kneeboard, including white tape on the leg, but I'm just used to a kneeboard. All it needs to do is stay on my leg and hold some blank paper, with the ability to be moved out of the way as necessary. I haven't used a prepared plan in decades, and I only pull out a chart if I'm in an area where I haven't flown before, and that doesn't happen often. Practice may not make perfect, but it does make things easier.

[NorthRider]

Why are they called kneeboards when they spend most of the time on your thigh?

[Gomer Pylot]

Well, the knee is closer than some other body parts. :E

[yetson]

finally I have found perfect kneeboard for helicopters - it's Hendricks 9-G. Low profile, small, fits even Robinson R44 R22 helis.
It has inspired me so far to make custom 20mil poly plates with:
-startup / down procedures checklists
-flight plan
-emergency procedures
-warning procedures

give me a msg ([email protected]) if you want set, I have production overruns for R44
also if you have ideas for custom plates for aircraft of your choice-let me know.

here are photos:

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/1859/r44plates1.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5268/r44plates2.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6909/r44plates4.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/960/r44plates7.jpg

[cl12pv2s]

First time round, I went and bought a snazzy one...I think it was called the 'Ultimate Kneeboard' then. Then went off to fly big aircraft, with places for clipboards and checklists, so didn't use the kneeboard. Then had some stuff to do in smaller aircraft, but couldn't find my 'Ultimate'. (It must be in storage at my parent's attic.)

No chance I was paying for another snazzy one, so made one.

1. 2 Clear plastic A5 clipboards.http://www.officeworks.com.au/ims_docs/46/46B2FFD1569503FE00000000AC193D36.JPG
2. Cut the bottom of one about one third of the way up (This will make a pocket to slip things into). Line the bottom half of the cut one with the bottom of the full one. Drill holes neatly around the edge of the full one and the bottom part of the other. Also space the wholes as for ring binders.
3. Buy a pot of binding rings. http://www.screwpost.com/images/loose_leaf_ring-1.gif
4. A5 sturdy clear plastic walletshttp://www.tiger-cub.co.uk/WebRoot/Store2/Shops/es109259_shop/47B0/7DAF/CD43/D8F9/8E80/50ED/8971/B20B/a5_0020_plastic_0020_wallets.jpg
5. Stick some sturdy clear plastic CD wallets onto the front of the A5 wallets. http://www.dvd-and-media.com/storage/self-adhesive-pollywallet.jpg
6. Thread some shockcord to fasten both bits of clip board. Make a strap and learn how to tie a good quick release knot!http://www.twevans.com/prodimages/th_shockcord.jpg

Put it all together, and hey presto you have a knee board. Total cost: $18USD. Much fun putting it together, and you stand out from the crowd.

[Pandalet]

For IFR plates, the best is to get a 2-ring file and cut out a roughly A5-sized chunk from the back, such that you end up with the two rings at the top. Some gaffer tape and a strip of velcro, and you have a knee board that allows you to easily flip between plates in a confined cockpit. Unlike the clipboard-style clips, when you flip a plate up (so it hangs down your knee), it doesn't keep popping back when you aren't looking. A few tabs out the side (made from the sticky strips of post-it notes) make it easy to find a set of plates, too.

[Nineteen84]

Sorry to revive this old thread but does anyone have an IFR kneeboard template they are willing to share?