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Kiting for Boys
7th Sep 2002, 20:57
The Scotsman quoting the United Nations Development Fund and the Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development.....


"Regime change vital to stability of the Arab world


TODAY, the Prime Minister is in Washington for talks with President George Bush over the impending action to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq. On Thursday, large numbers of American and British aircraft were destroying Iraqi air defences as a prelude to ground incursions. In the next few weeks, Mr Blair is likely to begin a round of diplomatic visits, as he did before the Kosovo intervention, to win support for the overthrow of the Iraqi dictator. The die for war is now cast. However, never has there been an issue where Tony Blair seems so isolated from his party, the British public, the Arab world, or Europe, than on supporting the United States’ decision to topple Saddam Hussein. There was similar - if less vehement - opposition before Kosovo, although that country’s successful liberation, and the overthrown of the fascist Slobodan Milosevic, has caused the memory to fade. Mr Blair was right over Kosovo, but his detractors do not care to remember they were wrong. He is also right over Iraq.

The removal of Saddam Hussein is not really about the evils of the man himself; it is only partly about the prospect of his gaining nuclear weapons, although that would be sufficient cause in itself for pre-emptive action. Rather, the necessity of a regime change in Baghdad is premised on the need to begin to bring stability to the Arab world before its desperate ills become the cause of permanent global crisis over the next generation. To be blunt, the Arab zone is the world’s poorest, most backward area, and the frustrations this generates, inside and outside that zone, are a constant threat to world peace. Because of that, there is no possibility of a policy of containment being successful, in the manner of the Soviet Union during the cold war.

Many will disagree with this assessment, thinking it smacks of western arrogance. But the truth is found in a recent report on the Arab world prepared by the United Nations Development Fund and the Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development. The report is the outcome of 30 Arab researchers’ efforts for over a year. It portrays the real picture of the 22 Arab countries with their 280 million people (the same population as the United States).

The report says Arab people enjoy the least freedom compared to any other region in the world - less even than sub- Saharan Africa. It says that Arab women get the least opportunity to participate in the economic and political activities compared to any other place in the world. The level of education among Arab women literally is the lowest in the world. More than 50 per cent are illiterate, in a culture that venerates its religious books.

One of the most revealing aspects of the report is the dangerous backwardness of the Arab nations in the field of education and science. Their per capita spending on scientific research is the lowest in the world. In 1996, it was 0.4 per cent of the gross national product, which is one-third of what tiny Cuba spent. By contrast, Israel allocated 6.35 per cent of its GNP for research. Only 0.5 per cent of Arabs have access to the internet, again the lowest in the world. More than 65 million Arab people, which accounts for 43 per cent of the entire Arab population, are illiterate - a fact that for ever locks the region into poverty. The total number of works translated into Arabic in the last ten centuries is the same as the number of books translated annually into Spanish. The pitiful number of 220 books translated to Arabic ever year is only one-fifth of the works translated into Greek. Remember that, and you understand the genesis of the misconceptions and hatreds of the west in Arab society.

As a result of this intellectual isolation, economic growth in the Arab zone over the last 20 years has averaged 0.5 per cent. At this rate, it takes 140 years to double the national income in these countries, while it takes only ten years in most other parts in the world. Although oil-rich nations form part of the Arab region, the entire output of the 22 nations is less than that of Spain, which has only one-seventh of their population.

The cause of this intellectual and economic poverty is not the Arab peoples themselves; nor is it their ancient religion, which shares with Judaism and Christianity a profound respect for the rule of law and property, and which demands its adherents read its holy books. Rather, the Arab nations are held in the thrall of despots, hereditary monarchs and military strongmen who connive to keep each other in power lest the bacillus of democracy is let loose. There is no division between state and personal wealth, with the treasury of Arab nation after Arab nation merely a synonym for the personal bank account of its ruler.

This is a powder keg waiting to explode. The demented and frustrated Saudi intellectuals who committed suicide in the Twin Towers attack last September are an example of what could come unless democracy, literacy and normalcy are brought to the Arab nations. Why start with Iraq? Because it is the weakest link, and its sad people hate Saddam with a vengeance. Why now? Because 11 September has destroyed the containment policy. Why not work through the United Nations? We should, if the Security Council will act; but alone if necessary. Will it not create a dangerous precedent? Not if they cheer Saddam’s downfall on the streets of Baghdad."


And also

http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?id=993832002&tid=518

Paterbrat
9th Sep 2002, 09:57
An interesting and thought provoking commentry in an ever increasingly emotionaly charged atmosphere where speculation gets wilder and more hyped up by the minute.

There is very real concern at the moment and the above has managed to give form to a slowly growing realisation that there has been a growing rift between populations and it is more than simply religion but a conglomeration of various factors, some achieving greater prominence than others. Such factors as the possesion of certain types of weapons in the hands of particular individuals with a proven record of instability and/or the will and desire to use them, or provide them to other groups who have lacked the ability to produce them but would quite happily use them.

The fact does remain that despite the track record of leaders like this the people who they lead in a time of conflict will back them, it is their country/religion/ racial grouping that will be percived to be threatened. Humans are designed to operate in groups and groups will face off in times of tension. This is such a time and a showdown of some sort may be rapidly approaching. The age old question of can it be sorted out or will it go to the mat is probably now uppermost in most of our minds.

Klingon
9th Sep 2002, 20:07
WOW! All very intellectual and worthy philosophies, much of which went over my head!
Unfortunately, since the creation of theUN, we have never reached closure on any local or strategic conflict. Prior to 1946 the protagonists emerged with a winning /loosing side and the spoils were divided accordingly. Borders, society and religion all changed to accomodate the victor. Nowadays we reach a "peaceful" solution and the niggling goes on in the form of terrorism by the remaining dissidents until...powee! another bit of trouble and strife occurs.
We all know that we should have finished the job in Iraq last time but were talked out of it by the wobbly politicians.
Less talk and more action or talk until you're blue in the face; whatever your preference for diplomacy in the end without closure the sniping goes on!:cool:

A Civilian
9th Sep 2002, 23:30
A very interesting study. But you know what they say. Lies, damned lies and stastics.

Economic growth in the Arab zone over the last 20 years has averaged 0.5 per cent. It looks like they used GDP per person. As the arab states have seen massive population growth. ( i think most states have doubled in population in the last 20 years!!!!!) This MASSIVE growth isn't something that can easily be stopped, and it is probably the reason for the 43% illiterate quote. So it's not wholely the various governments fault that this has happened.

I agree though that education in these state's are being carefully strangled. The more educated a person is the more likely they are to question any wrong doings that they feel are happening. And as most of these wrong doing's are probably being done by those "kings" & "princes" in power no doubt they do all they can to control education. It's like the Christian Church in the middle age's. Any attempt at non-church controlled education is probably eleminated ("your in league with the devil/ american's").

However the Iraqi question is now all over. Can you imagine what will happen if Bushy back's down from Iraq? he may not get re-elected although im sure the American voters won't mind about Iraq as long as he gets Bin Laden.

But what about Blair. At least Bush is the one calling the shots. Blair has lept towards him without any sort of restraint whatsoever. Like a good dog's he's come running. Imagine what such a fool he will appear to be if the Iraqi thing doesn't go down now. Bye bye re-election :) I like Blair, at least his party isn't openly racist as the Tory's are. Yet he's placed his bet on Iraq going down and there's no way the UK public will let him off if things now go sour. I can imagine the Sun's headlines now "BLAIRS DUNKIRK"

Blair will be wearing brown trouser's every day until Sadam get's wacked :D

farefield
10th Sep 2002, 14:42
Hey Civvy,great post,I was laughing out loud by the time I got to the end of it because of your deliberate attempt to put apostrophes where they shouldn't be and leave them out of where they should be.

A Civilian
10th Sep 2002, 14:47
It's scouser style english mate. The best in the world.

I spent ages writing that piece as I know how many of you got the job's you do by being spelling, grammar ace's, ability to read and write dead language's and so on rather than having any natural ability at your chosen job. The more I hear people ranting at my spelling the more I seriously think that the RAF is being led by a load of buffon's who can't seem to follow the plot so to speak. I guess due to the nature of your job's. The chances of the incompetent's surviving a major war is slim thus removing you from the human gene pool for the benfit of all mankind. Good luck during the new Gulf War.

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame31.html

ORAC
10th Sep 2002, 15:14
Civilian. Research!

Look at his profile, he's flying 744s. Doubt he'll be flying anywhere near the war zone unless he's in the reserves.

TomPierce
11th Sep 2002, 07:20
Interesting AC. Your previous rantings had all the spelling mistakes, and an excuse of dyslexia. What happened? Night school, special needs training, what? Perhaps even a friend wrote it all for you!

It all seems somewhat pathetic now.

Not Imprest
11th Sep 2002, 07:47
A Civilian

1. Good spelling and grammar are one of first indications of a credible argument. The content is second. You fail on at least one.

2. To deride the people of the forces (including myself) who have to sort out these problems serving their country and her interests, whilst you will clearly be sitting in the UK is, quite frankly, offensive.

3. In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum for military aircrew, so bu66er off.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Jackonicko
11th Sep 2002, 09:51
Poor spelling and grammar, to the extent displayed by you, would seem to indicate one of two things. Or perhaps both?

1) That you are, to put it bluntly, a bit thick. People often blame a poor education, but the use of good basic spelling and punctuation is hardly rocket science.

2) A complete contempt for those with whom you are trying to communicate and an underlying arrogant assumption that what you have to say is so important that the normal rules don't apply.

Might I point out that the ability to write clearly and well is not such an arcane skill that it precludes having 'natural ability at one's chosen job' any more than does being able to eat without spilling food down one's chin. It's a basic skill, nit! Those able to josh and joke in Latin (or other dead languages) are likely to be well educated, and perhaps be products of schools which turn out 'natural leaders' - but I can't speak with authority since I do not have that ability.

Your stated wish to see anyone (let alone military aircrew who are ten times what you will ever be) being removed "from the human gene pool for the benfit of all mankind" by the new Gulf War is disgraceful and beneath contempt.

I'd have thought it beheld a Scouser to keep quiet on the subject of genetic usefulness, or do we need under-nourished, under-educated, inbred, stupid, crack-smoking, petty thieves? There. A stupid stereotype. They aren't pretty, are they?

4fitter
11th Sep 2002, 12:01
AC
I've seen more action than I'd like to have and reading comments like yours just p##ses me off. I can not better Jacko's reply.:mad: