Kitty Hawk captain loses control

[I. M. Esperto]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-403363,00.html
World News



September 04, 2002

Kitty Hawk captain loses control
By Roland Watson in Washington and Glen Owen



THE captain of America’s most famous aircraft carrier, the USS Kitty Hawk, has been sacked for losing control of his crew, just as President Bush is readying the US military for an attack on Iraq.
Naval chiefs dismissed Captain Thomas Hejl after a series of arrests of crew members for alleged robbery, assault and drug-smuggling.

In a blunt statement announcing the departure.................
More...........................

Remember, lads, Diversity is our strength.

[ORAC]

Don't see the problem. The crew screw up. The captain carries the can. They sack and replace him. It's happened before and it'll happen again. And it's not a practice restricted to the navy or the Americans.

I'd have a lot more concern if there had been no action taken. Seems like, for some people, the US forces can't win. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Probably some secret conspiracy behind it, I'm sure you'll tell us all about it.

[I. M. Esperto]

Orac -"It's happened before and it'll happen again"

Negative. ADM Willard announced in The Stars and Stripes that this was the first time he had ever felt it necessary to relieve an active CO.

[ORAC]

No, read your own sentence. It is merely the first time Admiral Willard has had to relieve a senior officer. It, unfortunately, happens all to often, both to ship's captains and the commanders of squadrons/units. e.g.:

Specific Examples of Dismissals in 2001:

Mar 15 2001 - USS Leyte Gulf CO receives NJP for groundings, relieved of command.
By 2nd Fleet public affairs

NORFOLK, Va. (NNS) -- The commanding officer of the Norfolk-based Aegis cruiser USS Leyte Gulf (CG 55), Capt. William H. Dunn, was relieved of command March 14.........due to a loss of confidence by the 2nd Fleet commander, Vice Adm. Mike Mullen, in his ability to remain in command.

====================================

25 May 2001 - VFA-37 CO Relieved of Command, Involved in Kuwait Bombing Range Accident.
By AIRLANT Public Affairs

NORFOLK, Va. (NWS) -- Commander David Zimmerman, commanding officer of Oceana-based Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 37, has been relieved of his command as a result of his actions during a live-fire training accident at the Udairi Range in Kuwait March 12. Rear Adm. Michael Malone, commander, Naval Air Force Atlantic Fleet........Malone cited loss of confidence in Zimmerman's ability to command.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Generic Regulations:

"For reasons both legal and practical, command in the United States Armed Forces has a special character. That character is distinct from rank. The need to maintain good order and discipline at all levels of command when lives are at stake creates an environment unique to the command of military units. As the Supreme Court has noted, "no military organization can function without strict discipline and regulation that would be unacceptable in a civilian setting" and that "the rights of men in the armed forces must perforce be conditioned to meet certain overriding demands of discipline and duty ..."

...... An officer may be relieved of command if a superior decides the officer has failed to exercise sound judgment. Moreover, an officer may be relieved of command simply because of an entirely subjective loss of confidence by superiors in the chain of command."

[StopStart]

ORAC. Are you actually the real ORAC, a perspex box with flashing lights that knows everything??

Either that or you're a dab hand with Google :D :D

[ORAC]

:D :D

[StopStart]

http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/1orac.gif

;)

This seemed rather apt too :D

Orac (http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/snd/orac.wav)

[Chaffers]

Or an avid fan of sci.military.naval..... :D

I'd forgotten bout Blake's 7 :)

[Ignition Override]

I.M. Esperto: How about after the Tailhook mess? Were not some CO's, XOs or department heads (LCMDR or Commander rank) relieved?

It is well known that a certain professional femini$t, former US Navy LT Paula Conklin, had been grabbing the guys below the belt (at least in the rear) on the previous night and returned the next night well aware of the activities involved in the drunken partying. It was a perfect opportunity to find a rea$on to sue for many dollars. Lt Conklin then went to work for United Airlines where she filed a similar lawsuit against her employer. Hey, it's a lucrative way to enrich yourself. Actually, both she and another United (female) pilot named Paula (who I once met at a midwestern regional airline, which mostly hubbed through ORD) "allegedly" sued the airline during their "alleged" attempts to pass the FE course on either the DC-10 or some other machine. This was printed years ago in a FAPA newsletter. FAPA (later became Air Inc) was created to provide airline hiring info to prospective applicants.

My point is to demonstrate how individuals lacking any integrity (like those who scab during a strike) can, out of supposedly political motivations, manipulate the US legal system and enrich themselves, which is not simply a case of military COs making a major mistake in the performance of their duties. Many problems (not just damaged morale across the DOD) came through the White House and Congress down to the Dept of Defense during the Clinton administration, caused in part by Bill and Hillary's arrogance towards and scorn for our US military. They even tried to get Congress to reduce military retirment pay.

[I. M. Esperto]

Ignition - It was Paula COUGHLIN.

The whole Tailhook story makes for a thread in itself. I was there, BTW.

Paula, the Navy's Vestal Virgin in Navy Blue, dressed like the other hookers, and acted like them. They guys didn't know who she was.

She was so mad after she was goosed, she climbed in the sack with another member of the squadron, a married man, and slept with him that night.

I never claimed that Hejl was the only CO ever to be relieved of command, and neither did the Guardian article. There are scores of cases.

[fobotcso]

I can't figure out what this thread's about but it sure sounds like fun - well some of it does anyway.:D

[canberra]

speaking as one of the enlisted rabble i say well done the us navy, i believe its called pour encourage les autre. i know of one raf sqn commander who'se been relieved of command and one 3 star who was forced to resign.

[I. M. Esperto]

CO of a ship this siaze is equivelant to being a Mayor of a city.

[Iron City]

Saw the Times article when it was published and thought it c*&p. Don't know the skipper, the story was three enlisted guys over a month or so were picked up be the local police accused of some fairly bad behavior--assult, rape and robbery as I recall- the n skipper relieved.

In the Times story once they got beyond the police blotter stuff it turned into a very uninformed pile of b)&*^$^s about poor black and Puerto Rican junior enlisted only getting $x per year while the officers didn't know they existed, locked below decks for months on end and sleeping 12 to a room. Working in the kitchens and engine room is the stiffling heat next to the blazing nuclear reactors. Wrote the Times editor and told him/her they should be ashamed of printing this garbage. Because it is.

[I. M. Esperto]

Iron City -

Here's another account from the Asahi Shimbun, in Japan:

http://www.asahi.com/english/national/K2002090500318.html

Far more to this than you presume.

"Locked below"? Surely, you jest, right?

In a hot kitchen? Yes, it is very hot. The men like hot meals. Someone has to prepare tham. Perhaps you envision a BBQ on the flight deck?

Hot boiler room? Sure, so what's new? This is what moves her at 30+ kts.

Somebody has to do it, and it's NOT just minorities. There are whites there as well, and probably in greater numbers.

The officers are NOT isolated from the crew. they are part of the crew. most are Division Officers, and are accountable for their men. They routinely inspect quarters, working spaces, and sample one meal a day.

12 to a room? There are no rooms on the Kitty Hawk. There are enlisted quarters, CPO's, and Officers quarters.

Nothing new to any of this. It was this way back in the 1950's.

An Attack carrier is generally considered pretty good duty. If you want to talk about hardships, talk to Destroyermen from the 1950's, and even today.

I slept in a hammock on a Destroyer Escort (USS SNYDER) in 1950 in what was described as a sleeping compartment, and I was a Midshipman.

The US Navy is an all volunteer force. Every sailor aboard her knew what to expect.


There is nothing new about any of this.

Discipline must be maintained.

I just got this as part of a subscription service:

Incredible Ltr From Sailor USS Winston Churchill
Just Rec'd from a good friend 9-28-01 - Amazing

Subject: Support for the US

Friends:

A friend back home sent me a copy of a letter from a junior officer on the USS Winston Churchill to his family, that I thought would interest you.
The Winston Churchill is a state-of-the art US Navy destroyer, which was the hit of the Portsmouth "Festival of the Sea." People stood for two or three hours in the rain, to get a chance to go on board that ship.

Here's the letter:

Dear Dad, Well, we are still out at sea, with little direction as to what our next priority is. The remainder of our port visits, which were to be centered around max liberty and goodwill to the United Kingdom, have all but been cancelled. We have spent every day since the attacks going back and forth within imaginary boxes drawn in the ocean, standing high-security watches, and trying to make the best of our time. It hasn't been that fun I must confess, and to be even more honest, a lot of people are frustrated at the fact that they either can't be home, or we don't have more direction right now. We have seen the articles and the photographs, and they are sickening. Being isolated as we are, I don't think we appreciate the full scope of what is happening back home, but we are definitely feeling the effects. About two hours ago the junior officers were called to the bridge to conduct Shiphandling drills. We were about to do a man overboard when we got a call from the LUTJENS(D185), a German warship that was moored ahead of us on the pier in Plymouth, England. While in port, the WINSTON S CHURCHILL and the LUTJENS got together for a sports day/cookout on our fantail, and we made some pretty good friends. Now at sea they called over on bridge-to-bridge, requesting to pass us close up on our port side, to say goodbye. We prepared to render them honors on the bridge wing, and the Captain told the crew to come topside to wish them farewell. As they were making their approach, our Conning Officer announced through her binoculars that they were flying an American flag. As they came even closer, we saw that it was flying at half-mast. The bridgewing was crowded with people as the Boatswain's Mate blew two whistles
-Attention to Port-
the ship came up alongside and we saw that the entire crew of the German ship were manning the rails, in their dress blues. They had made up a sign that was displayed on the side that read "We Stand By You". Needless to say there was not a dry eye on the bridge as they stayed alongside us for a few minutes and we cut our salutes. It was probably the most powerful thing I have seen in my entire life and more than a few of us fought to retain our composure.
It was a beautiful day outside today. We are no longer at liberty to divulge over unsecure e-mail our location, but we could not have asked for a finer day at sea. The German Navy did an incredible thing for this crew, and it has truly been the highest point in the days since the attacks.
It's amazing to think that only a half-century ago things were quite different,and to see the unity that is being demonstrated throughout Europe and the world makes us all feel proud to be out here doing our job.
After the ship pulled away and we prepared to begin our man overboard drills the Officer of the Deck turned to me and said "I'm staying Navy."
I'll write you when I know more about when I'll be home, but for now, this is probably the best news that I could send you.
Love you guys.


That's what sailors are made of. I'm sure living conditions on this tin Can are at least as bad as those on the Kitty Hawk, and the pitch and roll are much worse.

[Iron City]

Thankyou I.M. Espertio , I am well aware that for obvious reasons a nuke boat is not going to be home ported in Japan. I am well aware that a large part of the story was B&^%$#*, I was just quoting it to show how poor the Times did.

As for what sailors may have perpetrated in the area, I know they are not all angels, they are a cross section of a part of U.S. society like RN, RAF, and other military services. The crew (ships company and embarked air wing and what about the Marine detachment ..generally OinC is a senior captain or major on a CV) of 5,500 men having 10 alleged violent offenses or drug possession charges is one in 550 over the course of a couple months. Take that to the whole year and maybe 60 alleged crimes of this type (nobody was stated as having been convicted of anything yet, though this is Japan). No commander likes this, and neither do the division officers, but I'm not sure that that rate is not actually better than the rate of contact with law enforcement for the demographic group of males 18-25 in civilian life in the US.

Bet you the problem really was the running aground part. If the newspaper is to be believed the skipper was at the helm, so where was the quartermaster?

[peterperfect]

So if the Captain's been sacked for allowing "alleged robbery, assault and drug-smuggling" under his command why is Mr Bush still leading his country ?

[ORAC]

The Sunday Times:

......Little has gone right for the Kitty Hawk since it steamed away from the Persian Gulf last spring. Entering port in Singapore, it struck a buoy, damaging a shaft and propeller. Several of its crew were implicated in a series of criminal incidents, including an assault and the theft of a car.

Last month, the carrier’s main propulsion plant failed an engineering test, effectively confining it to port. Two weeks ago the ship’s skipper, Thomas Hejl, was stripped of his command and last week the new captain replaced the chief engineer and 10 other senior sailors........