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BristolScout
15th May 2024, 14:01
I've just watched an Electricity helicopter overflying my property repeatedly at around 50 feet. Perfectly safe and legal, I'm sure, but it does make me wonder why I can't teach EFATO to my students in a realistic manner.

+TSRA
15th May 2024, 19:40
Not EFATO, but consider doing an engine failure exercise from altitude at your home airport. Not fully realistic for a cross country or EFATO I know, but very early in my CPL training in New Zealand my instructor briefed me and the control tower while on the ground that we would be doing a dead stick approach from 3,500’ following an overhead join. We went out, did our thing in the practice area, came back and overhead the field he pulled the mixture. Entirely safe, the controller gave us the zone, and it built the confidence that I could land with the engine out. Looking back, I wish I had been provided this opportunity during my PPL and not so late as 140 or 150 hours.

In so far as a lesson is concerned, set it up so there is a good briefing, go do your thing in the air, and then at the end have your student talk about how they can apply what they learned to a takeoff. Discuss how quickly they’ll have to set the plane into a glide attitude and airspeed, how to quickly identify a location to land, and how to put it down safely now that they’ve done it for real.

However in the current landscape, you’ll likely need the approval of the chief pilot and the insurance company, both of whom might put an end to the thought before it begins. Nevertheless, I found it a highly beneficial experience.

rarelyathome
15th May 2024, 21:44
I've just watched an Electricity helicopter overflying my property repeatedly at around 50 feet. Perfectly safe and legal, I'm sure, but it does make me wonder why I can't teach EFATO to my students in a realistic manner.

why can’t you teach your students EFATO in a realistic manner?

Ascend Charlie
16th May 2024, 01:56
How realistic do you want to be? In the Hueys, we would do a normal takeoff, then at 60kt and 100' roll off the throttle for a touchdown auto. Piece of cake.

However, having done years of powerline inspections, I knew that it would be a mess at the ground, because of the hills, valleys, rough ground, minimal tree clearance, and the startle factor. Dropping from 50' and 30kt would not be ideal conditions.

BristolScout
16th May 2024, 13:51
Sorry for not being clear. I'm talking fixed-wing EFATO.

ShyTorque
16th May 2024, 15:48
I've just watched an Electricity helicopter overflying my property repeatedly at around 50 feet. Perfectly safe and legal, I'm sure, but it does make me wonder why I can't teach EFATO to my students in a realistic manner.

The helicopter is probably twin engined…. ;)

MrAverage
16th May 2024, 19:37
We're not allowed EFATO at our airfield and for very good reasons. So we always do them in the climb out from a PFL

Genghis the Engineer
18th May 2024, 22:20
I'm not allowed to teach circuits at my home (flying club) airfield - as I do instructing there within syndicates and most of the time circuits are restricted to the based flying school only.

So I go to one of several other airfields, where I can, whether the one where I'm paid to instruct at an ATO, or another one.

Generally, the same would be true of EFATOs.

It wasn't all that hard a problem to solve.

G

Straighten Up
20th May 2024, 08:02
For efato (with runway available), I just do a low approach to airport then just before threshold tell student to go around and cut power when in the climbing attitude. A genuine EFATO anywhere other than open countryside is pretty bad news in SEP. I'm interested in seeing them get the nose down so we don't stall and nominating and available field within 5 seconds.

Perhaps you mean teaching PFL down to a lower go around altitude? In which case, as mentioned find a friendly not busy airfield nearby (preferably grass) where you can cut the power within gliding distance and go all the way down to 50' or even to land. For PFL I find in an unrealistic scenario (where you have to go around by 500 agl), most students would overshoot landing field unless it's huge.

Edgington
21st May 2024, 22:45
The helicopter is probably twin engined…. ;)

They mostly use AS350 single engine turbine. Because of the low altitudes they operate at there is no benefit to having a twin, if an engine goes you're hitting the ground. Twin would just be more expensive to replace

FTN11
29th May 2024, 08:46
OP still hasn't answered why he can't teach EFATO in a realistic manner.

I tend to teach it on the back of a PFL, nothing wrong with going down to 50' or even lower if you're in a remote area.

Jhieminga
29th May 2024, 11:17
Different operation, so different equipment and different risk assessment. Electricity inspections use a turboshaft powered helicopter that's not all that old. Your typical GA type with generic four-banger's reliability may well be less good than that for the AS350.

Still, I'm also interested in why teaching an EFATO is not possible, at least not in a realistic manner.

Edgington
2nd Jun 2024, 23:16
Agree with FTN11, why isn't it possible? Maybe I'm lucky as I instruct mostly in Scotland. But surely in most areas of the country you can find a field that is 500ft from an man made structure? it's only 155 m.
Much more realistic than in EASA land where you have to go around at 500ft AGL