Bell pitching V-280 Valor and V-247 Vigilant as USN replacement of MH-60R

[chopper2004]

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/navy-league-2024-bell-targets-v-280-manned-v-247-unmanned-platforms-as-replacement-for-usn-mh-60rs-helicopters?utm_campaign=V280&utm_content=289322055&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-115461418

cheers

[Lonewolf_50]

First, they need to figure out how to fold the Valor ...

[Sam W]

Already thought out with the 247 and the production 280’s shorter tail.

[SansAnhedral]

First, they need to figure out how to fold the Valor ...

Lots of Bell patents on that topic. Seems to be physically feasible (unlike height problem on SB1/X2), question is can it be made affordable from a weight and cost standpoint?

US 10,167,080
US 10,086,936
US 10,077,106
US 10,065,736

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/dc/b1/3f/c6c410cea449a3/US20180079501A1-20180322-D00010.png

[Lonewolf_50]

Already thought out with the 247 and the production 280’s shorter tail.
I'll believe it when I see one in the helicopter Hangar of an Arleigh Burke Class, Flight III, DDG. Call me when you have a video.

[SansAnhedral]

I'll believe it when I see one in the helicopter Hangar of an Arleigh Burke Class, Flight III, DDG. Call me when you have a video.

I do believe 247 MUX variant was specifically designed for that, hence features like the garbage can flat top spinners

https://www.twz.com/v-247-tiltrotor-drone-downsized-to-maritime-strike-for-navy-warships

One of the driving factors in the V-247’s design was fitting it inside the hangar of an Arleigh Burke class destroyer (https://www.twz.com/22138/the-navy-may-use-one-hull-design-to-replace-its-cruisers-and-some-destroyers), which would ensure it could deploy on any of the Navy’s helicopter-capable vessels. As designed, the 247 could provide massive capability enhancements across a wide spectrum of operations down to a Frigate-sized ship. Bell strove to retain the basic wing size and foldability of the MUX-sized Vigilant, Worden said.

https://images03.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2019-09/bell-V247-vigilant-900.jpg

[NutLoose]

First, they need to figure out how to fold the Valor ...

I posted this a while back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htBDBH6p5RA

[Lonewolf_50]

I do believe 247 MUX variant I don't care what you believe.
Back in the late 80's we were at NHA. The Osprey/V-22/Tilt Rotor was the next big thing, which included a Bell pitch about how a Tilt Rotor would be the next platform for a LAMPS detachment on Helo capable ships in the USN. It is now 35 years later, and MH-60R is still LAMPS (heir to the SH-60B).

As I said: I'll believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap.
(And if they do make it work, great).

[SASless]

As complex and unproven the concept is....will not be a cheap exercise....akin to the V-22 and its history.

How expensive is an all things capable flying machine can be before it is too expensive when infrequent mission capabilities are thrown into the recipe that need not be there?

Expensive mean fewer bought.....then Mission Readiness rates matter.

If those few machines are evaluated as being ready for every task....as compared to being evaluated for the assigned tasks.....those few are going to suffer in that real world process.

But....if you only evaluate them for the assigned tasks at any moment you are ignoring the core problem that was built in at the inception of the program.

Ultimately the aircraft Gripe List means the aircraft is flying in a degraded capability thus all the Gucci Kit is not longer adding to the capability.

Sometimes well proven cheaper aircraft fit for most of the tasks might be a better way to go.

[Hedge36]

I'll believe it when I see one in the helicopter Hangar of an Arleigh Burke Class, Flight III, DDG. Call me when you have a video.

And I thought moving to the -60 was a pain.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/484x320/48411602_10161180882675174_6053095640173379584_n_58a085b8dd6 6b78420744b0df9f1b65d9ffa92a2.jpg

[Commando Cody]

Well, that H-60 is still around for LAMPs is not surprising. Regarding V-22, it's admittedly too big for the role and was never intended to be based on a DDG or the like. OTOH, that does not rule out the technology. Consider this: Tilt-Rotor or not, what from-scratch medium rotorcraft design has entered US service in the last 40 years besides the V-22? Another reason the H-60 is still around.

Regarding the use of a V-280 derivative for the role in the future... like any good contractor, Bell is going to pitch its technology and designs. It has shown multiple concepts for a naval V-280 derivative and folding is not a show stopping factor. The main penalty of folding is weight, which naturally would be a consideration. Since USN doesn't seem to need all of the V-280's range one tradeoff could fuel. Another option shows up in mission requirements. Specifically, IIRC FLRAA has a requirement to HOGE at mission weight at 6000 ( or is it 6500?)' at 90 (95?) degrees. This, not speed, is what determined the power requirement for the V-280. Navy mission has no such need. Given that, naval V-280 may already have enough power to handle the extra weight of the folding mechanism at lower altitudes.

Regarding fitting on a DDG, Bell has consistently said you'd be able to operate two of them on a DDG. Their published data indicates that a folded naval V-280 has about the same footprint as a folded UH-`Y, so it will certainly fit where an H-60 would go. Given the Army program, it would be very competitive overall pricewise vs a clean sheet design.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/v_280navy1_22565f5a771608e4cd572527bcce40affc43d8cf.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x418/v_280navhngr_48c31f93a508f97b0059ee8b55476bc440db6d42.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x612/v_280uh_1y_8cf287541eb69f053a2a0b10ec413dd30e674f99.jpg

[Lonewolf_50]

And I thought moving to the -60 was a pain.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/484x320/48411602_10161180882675174_6053095640173379584_n_58a085b8dd6 6b78420744b0df9f1b65d9ffa92a2.jpg That appears to be a Mayport bird from HSL-36. Were you there when Frito was the Skipper? (Or is that HSL-35 and my screen res is misleading me?) Before there was the NATO Sea Chicken, there was BPDMS ... Beepa Deemis! :}

EDIT: nvm, looked up FF 1083 / Cook and it was homeported in San Diego. Must have been HSL-35.

[SansAnhedral]

I don't care what you believe.

Ok so remove the "I do believe" and just read the article - the V-247 MUX is specifically sized to fit in the DDG hangar. Full stop.

Back in the late 80's we were at NHA. The Osprey/V-22/Tilt Rotor was the next big thing, which included a Bell pitch about how a Tilt Rotor would be the next platform for a LAMPS detachment on Helo capable ships in the USN. It is now 35 years later, and MH-60R is still LAMPS (heir to the SH-60B).

In the late 80s an XV-15 sized tiltrotor for that mission could easily have been put forward. There's no technical barrier to a tiltrotor sizing for this mission. As always its just finding someone to fund clean sheet design work or trying to shoehorn non-purpose built aircraft into tangential roles.

[Hedge36]

Yep, 35.

Those were the days. Those were some days. Those were days and days.

Funny progression on the Knox - you can get tracked by a Mark I eyeball (beepadeemus), then you can get tracked anonymously from Combat (sea chicken), then we progress to being tracked automagically (R2D2 with an erection). "Hey, why is CIWS following us around?"