USN Shipbuilding Woes

[ORAC]

Relevance is the slippage in aircrfat carrier deliveries as well as impact on AUKUS subs…

https://x.com/eigenrobot/status/1777373735395192914?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


Reading that the navy's response to ******* up at breathtaking scale is to simply refuse to talk about it, my impulse is to refamiliarize the admiralty with the tale of Viscount John Byng.

Full story is here, just a ******* mess, apparently no one is taking this seriously….

https://archive.is/2024.04.07-214137/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/07/navy-cancels-ship-briefings-internal-report-00150879

Navy cancels ship briefings after damning internal report

As China’s fleet grows, the U.S. is struggling with fresh delays in building new subs and warships.

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[Biggus]

Perhaps the USN should be bold, and order some warships from overseas to avoid delays - Ferguson Marine maybe? 😏

[Not_a_boffin]

The inevitable consequence of sticking with Arleigh Burke - a mid 80s design, which while admittedly very capable, means that there's no-one in NAVSEA who knows how to specify and/or design a ship anymore. Which leaves them dependent BIW and HII for continuation of that line, while begging Fincantieri / MM to dig them out of a hole.

They're deeply scarred by the Zumwalt and LCS experiences. Strangely, the UK might be in a marginally better position in that we have actually conducted 2 (and a half if you count T31) surface combatant designs this century.

Same lesson the US are learning on aircraft design. Long duration slow burn programmes result in huge programme costs and loss of skills over time. Short, sharp design efforts generate wider cadres of people and get to the result quicker.

[bugged on the right]

In light of recent events, it doesn't appear that the future of conventional warships is assured. Perhaps more emphasis on drones rather than what seem to be sitting ducks.

[Rebus]

Perhaps the USN should be bold, and order some warships from overseas to avoid delays - Ferguson Marine maybe? 😏
Just launched the second ferry, so may have room in the order book.

[oxenos]

Just launched the second ferry
​​​​​​​Did it float?

[RAFEngO74to09]

Former RN frigate CO compares USN destroyers to RN frigates - and the role of Merlin.

Earlier batches of USN Arleigh-Burke class have an inferior ASW capability due to only having bow-mounted sonar and the ships be optimized for AD.

US Navy destroyer or Royal Navy frigate – what's best for hunting Russian submarines? (archive.ph) (https://archive.ph/maq4D)

[ORAC]

Not just the RN then….

https://x.com/cavasships/status/1784673592820568290?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


To sail no more: the US Navy has ended all work on cruisers COWPENS CG63 and VICKSBURG CG69 and now, after hundreds of millions of $$$ with zero ROI, both will be decommissioned this year. Another "tough decision." 63 seen at San Diego in Feb; 69 at Norfolk in April

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/546x640/img_0282_8db6621a6629b2a28c8a478efb086ed84369f901.jpeg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x341/img_0283_09a18a995be6d53d12545ac469e37b4127937879.jpeg
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[Not_a_boffin]

Indeed, not just the RN.

Prima facie evidence of what happens when you dither and defer programmes for replacements because you have institutionally forgotten how to conduct design programmes and therefore deem it "risky".

Those ships have been worked very hard for a late 70s design. Not helped by binning the early non-VLS ones in the noughties. Certification will be an ongoing nightmare, pouring money into a bottomless hole (or nearly bottomless hull......)

[SLXOwft]

Perhaps the USN should be bold, and order some warships from overseas to avoid delays - Ferguson Marine maybe? 😏

Well, as mentioned in the linked POLITICO article their experience with 'doing a (UK) MOD' on a foreign design isn't exactly going well. I posted a link to an article (https://news.usni.org/2024/01/11/first-constellation-frigate-delayed-at-least-a-year-schedule-assessment-ongoing)about a year's delay to the FREMM based Constellation in January (I think on the AUKUS thread), thing appear to have got worse. A bit like the Hunters, taking an existing design and changing it, I wait with interest progress on the Canadian Serviuce Combatant (also T26 based)THE PENTAGON – The lead ship in a new class of guided-missile frigates for the U.S. Navy may be up to three years late, USNI News has learned.
Constellation (FFG-62), under construction at Fincantieri Marinette Marine in Wisconsin, may not deliver to the fleet until 2029, three years later than the original 2026 delivery goal, according to a service shipbuilding review.

The program’s delay came to light as part of the 45-day shipbuilding review that Secretary of the Navy Carlos Del Toro ordered earlier this year.

Source: USNI News: April 2, 2024 updated April 3, 2024 (https://news.usni.org/2024/04/02/constellation-frigate-delivery-delayed-3-years-says-navy)

[Not_a_boffin]

Well, as mentioned in the linked POLITICO article their experience with 'doing a (UK) MOD' on a foreign design isn't exactly going well. I posted a link to an article (https://news.usni.org/2024/01/11/first-constellation-frigate-delayed-at-least-a-year-schedule-assessment-ongoing)about a year's delay to the FREMM based Constellation in January (I think on the AUKUS thread), thing appear to have got worse. A bit like the Hunters, taking an existing design and changing it, I wait with interest progress on the Canadian Serviuce Combatant (also T26 based)

Ahem. Type 31.

HMS Venturer was originally planned to be in the water at the end of last year. Current estimate is that she'll be "launched" towards the back end of this year. Not necessarily a problem (can do an awful lot more up to a point), but indicative of the difficulties involved for a yard that has never built a ship before.

WodS (Word on da Street) is that using a near-twenty year old "off the shelf" design and trying to get it through RN certification isn't as easy as people thought it would be. Who knew?

[ORAC]

This time fuel tanks and lack of tankers…

https://x.com/johnkonrad/status/1786767396725833854?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


A 4 year old girl poisoned by US Navy incompetence. A 4 year old girl and thousands more 🇺🇸 citizens.

Did they mention this is because the US Navy replaced steel pipes with Home Depot quality PVC? PVC!!

Did 60 minutes mention that 5 admirals and 7 captains were punished but not one @NAVFAC SES has been fired?

Did they mention now we don’t have enough fuel tanks to supply carriers in war?

Did they mention @SecDef promised to replace these critical tanks with oil tankers “dispersed at sea” but has purchased zero oil tankers?

Did they mention that a Vice President at Maersk said we are now 100 oil tankers short of meeting our minimum INDOPACOM fuel needs in the event of war?

Did they mention that this incident could very easily lose us a war against China?

Here is the full video from @60Minutes

https://youtu.be/-DUJX58JwSA