Price of new Vickers Wellington

[Aviano99]

Hi All,
We've tried everywhere else so you folks are our last hope! I have ben asked by a friend who is an author if I can find out how much a new Vickers Wellington bomber would have cost to produce in WWII? He is writing a book that involves Wimpeys so is trying to find out.
Can anyone help please?

Many thanks
Aviano

[rolling20]

Hi All,
We've tried everywhere else so you folks are our last hope! I have ben asked by a friend who is an author if I can find out how much a new Vickers Wellington bomber would have cost to produce in WWII? He is writing a book that involves Wimpeys so is trying to find out.
Can anyone help please?

Many thanks
Aviano
A Wellington cost £20,606, according to Ministry of Aircraft Production - Price Books - Average of all prices paid for all Wellingtons listed.

[connoisseur]

“The wartime Ministry of Aircraft Production (MAP) did have a ‘Price Book’ setting out individual aircraft ‘prices’, though what was included/excluded looked to vary considerably. The published research paper ‘Britain 1939-1945: The Economic Cost of Strategic Bombing’ by John Fahey is both a fascinating read and a powerful reference document, which I would recommend your author friend studies in some detail so as to have a full understanding of the various costs involved before arriving at a figure.

Having said that pp189 of Fahey tells us “By 1946, Vickers had produced 11,460 Wellingtons, at an average cost of £14,367.77 per aircraft. The total cost of this aircraft type was £164,654,753 which makes this aircraft the second most costly after the Lancaster.”

Hope this helps

C

[rolling20]

Fahey also states that the 'MAP price books reflects the values of the..... Wellington after the British government had taken into account the subsidies and capital grants provided to the manufacturers'.

[washoutt]

Is 20600 pounds in 1940 expensive? How does it compare to other costs? From internet, it seems, that a loaf of bread in 1940 would cost 4 pennies, which (I think, please correct this simple European citizen) is 1/240 pound sterling. A loaf nowadays would be around 2 pst. A 20600 pst Wellington of 1940 would therefore compare to 2 470 000 pst today, which is around 2 900 000 euro's. That sounds very cheap for a mid-size bomber.

[Cornish Jack]

I wonder if anyone has worked out the cost of the one particular Wimpey which was built, start to finish and test-flight, in 24 hours ? There's probably still a film lurking around somewhere.

[meleagertoo]

Whats the meaning of 2pst?

[Fargo Boyle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPx-NqHH5fc&list=WL&index=1&t=0s

Here you go - a Wellington in 24 hours

[Herod]

Whats the meaning of 2pst? I think it means Pounds Sterling.

[Planemike]

What's the meaning of 2pst?
£ Stg. 2.00.....

[meleagertoo]

Oh! No wonder I dind't get it! pst for £? What's next? dsa for $? jyn for Yen?

[rolling20]

Is 20600 pounds in 1940 expensive? How does it compare to other costs? From internet, it seems, that a loaf of bread in 1940 would cost 4 pennies, which (I think, please correct this simple European citizen) is 1/240 pound sterling. A loaf nowadays would be around 2 pst. A 20600 pst Wellington of 1940 would therefore compare to 2 470 000 pst today, which is around 2 900 000 euro's. That sounds very cheap for a mid-size bomber.
According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, £20,600 in 1940, is worth £954,603 today, so even cheaper.
Don't forget you have to think about other factors: the equipment, wage rates, ease of construction, these and other factors back then all contributed to the overall costing.

[Herod]

meleagertoo; give the guy a break. He's from the Netherlands, and I suspect, like most Dutchmen, speaks excellent English. He's probably never had to refer to pounds Sterling before. Before the Euro, would you have known the correct term for the Guilder?

[meleagertoo]

Yes, absolutely. It's "Guilder".
Random home-made acronyms instead of the internationally universal and standardised symbols/eesignations are guaranteed to cause confusion and not be understood, as was demonstrated here.
Just asking for clarity, that's all.

[DuncanDoenitz]

ISTR that the abbreviation for Guilder was Fl.

Obviously.

[Self loading bear]

ISTR that the abbreviation for Guilder was Fl.

Obviously.

Fl stood for Florijn, an even older coin/currency in the Lowlands.

[Asturias56]

Same in English - the Florin was the 2 shilling coin - one that was kept at decimalisation and is now the 10p coin.

[DHfan]

An even more basic explanation is that not having a UK keyboard, he doesn't have a £ key.

[TCU]

I have a South African purchased HP laptop.....no £ symbol, although it does have a $. (I am writing this on my UK sourced Mac).My accountant understands UKP when I email her on my SA HP, and I got pst in a blink.....Nice thread BTW

[tdracer]

Slightly off topic but (although not nearly as far as the abbreviations for various currency's), a couple years ago I came across webpage showing what the US Government was selling various surplus WWII aircraft for in 1946. Things like P-51 fighters and B-17 bombers for a few thousand US dollars.
Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the page anymore, but even after correcting for inflation the prices were amazingly low - especially considering what such aircraft go for today.

[EXDAC]

An even more basic explanation is that not having a UK keyboard, he doesn't have a £ key.

{ALT}156{ALTOff} or {ALT}0163{ALTOff} on my non UK keyboard.

[FlightlessParrot]

I have a South African purchased HP laptop.....no £ symbol, although it does have a $. (I am writing this on my UK sourced Mac).My accountant understands UKP when I email her on my SA HP, and I got pst in a blink.....Nice thread BTW
According to the foreign exchange converters here in NZ (not unacquainted with sterling trade), the standard abbrev. for the pound is "GBP". For the Netherlands the appropriate abbrev. is EUR.

One perhaps especially relevant converter would be average earnings, since there was a lot of labour in a Wellington. For the war years, average weekly earnings were about GBP200; the same table (on the Measuring Worth website) gives average earnings in 2022 as a smidge over GBP 32,000. So at a cost of GBP 20,000 that would make GBP 3,200,000; at 14,000, 2,240,000. Say, the same as ten of the more modest kind of Ferrari.

[Innominate]

As I understand it, the figures in the Price Books relate to the bare airfrane, and don't include things such as engines, radio, instruments etc. that the Ministry purchased seperately and passed to the airframe manufacturer for incorporation.

[washoutt]

Aha, the basic price of 20.000 GBD (indeed, my pc does not have the GBD sign, and the dot is the indication of thousands, i.l.o. of the comma, that some parts of the world use) is without the price of engines and further equipment so the real price would be much higher, as Innominate indicated. But even if engines and equipment would constitute around 1/4 of the airframe cost, it stil seems a very cheap bomber.

[Innominate]

According to https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator £20,000 in 1943 would be £754,872 (and 98p!) in 2024.

[Expatrick]

Just out of interest, the J class destroyer, Jupiter, 2700 tonnes, commissioned in June 1939 cost £390,000. So far that sum you could (almost) get 20 Wellingtons!

[sycamore]

Expatrick; Wellingtons/sea-boots were issued to all ships crews....

[India Four Two]

For the war years, average weekly earnings were about GBP200

That has to be a mistake. When looking up WWII wages, I found this quote from 1942 in Hansard:

​​​​​​​From the information I have been able to obtain it seems that the minimum rate of pay of a non-tradesman private in the United States Army who is now in the British Isles works out at about 5s. per day. The minimum rate for the similar kind of private in the Canadian Army is 5s. 2d., and in the Australian Army 6s. 9d. The British equivalent receives 2s. 6d.
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1942/feb/10/british-army-pay

2s 6d (12.5p) a day is 17s 6d a week - not even £1.

Incidentally, I used to know an RCAF radar mechanic who was posted to Leuchars during the war. He told me that unlike US forces, Canadians were paid the same amount in cash as the equivalent British rank and the balance of their wages was deposited in a Canadian bank account.

[SimonPaddo]

Fl stood for Florijn, an even older coin/currency in the Lowlands.
Wasn't it NLG before EUR?

[India Four Two]

I thought it was NLF.

[FlightlessParrot]

That has to be a mistake. When looking up WWII wages, I found this quote from 1942 in Hansard:


https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1942/feb/10/british-army-pay

2s 6d (12.5p) a day is 17s 6d a week - not even £1.

Incidentally, I used to know an RCAF radar mechanic who was posted to Leuchars during the war. He told me that unlike US forces, Canadians were paid the same amount in cash as the equivalent British rank and the balance of their wages was deposited in a Canadian bank account.

I think military pay is not a good indicator, as that is cash over and above working clothes, meals, shelter, and the thrilling entertainment of being shot at, all of which came with the job (for ORs). GBP 200 is a bit high, perhaps, as it's average earnings, which would include the professions and so on. OTOH I don't know what proportion of the aircraft building workforce would have been skilled workers, who could be quite highly paid. All attempts to give values in modern terms are necessarily highly imprecise because different factors of production have different relative values (which can produce Cost Disease), so I thought basing it on cost of labour would be a somewhat useful way of comparing, along with others.

One other element of uncertainty is that the Wellington was a much simpler aircraft than a modern "medium bomber" (even though its structure was rather complicated), and under wartime circumstances there'd have been good economies of scale.

Many years ago I was teaching Anglo-Saxon English here in NZ, and the passage we were reading gave the price of a sheep, in silver coinage, in the 10th century. For kicks and giggles I looked up that day's price of silver and the latest auction prices for sheep, and the cost of a sheep in weight of silver was exactly the same as in the century before the Conquest. Pure fluke, though I enjoyed it, but most comparisons only give a rough equivalence, especially the number of Ferraris you could buy. But maybe how many Morgan three-wheelers you could buy for a Wellington would have the validity of contemporary levels of technology.

[Rebus]

That has to be a mistake. When looking up WWII wages, I found this quote from 1942 in Hansard:


https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1942/feb/10/british-army-pay

2s 6d (12.5p) a day is 17s 6d a week - not even £1.

Incidentally, I used to know an RCAF radar mechanic who was posted to Leuchars during the war. He told me that unlike US forces, Canadians were paid the same amount in cash as the equivalent British rank and the balance of their wages was deposited in a Canadian bank account.
I don't think average wages were £200 per week in the 50's or 60's, never mind the 40's.

[longer ron]

I don't think average wages were £200 per week in the 50's or 60's, never mind the 40's.

Absolutely Rebus - in 1970 I was an apprentice on £3 per week and in the 2nd year - £4.50 per week (after changeover to 'funny money')
In 1972 when I qualified as a J/T (junior tech) my wages shot up to approx £25 per week (which was a fair wage in those days).
In 1986 ish - as a civvy in the aircraft industry on a really good week I might get £300 per week.

Perhaps the £200 figure was actually per annum ?

[DHfan]

In 1975, working on the shop floor in an engineering company with a bonus system where it was impossible to get less than 100%, I made £65 - £70 a week.

From there I moved to office-based jobs, for considerably less money, and even with inflation raging at 20-odd% through the '70s it was still the very late '80s before I made £200 a week.

I never knew anybody personally who made the official average wage. It always seemed to me to be an astronomical figure,

[Rory57]

I have read somewhere that equipment required for aircraft production was supplied directly to the aircraft builder “free of charge” by the ministry. I am thinking of items such as tyres, magnetos, radios and so forth that were added to the airframe. Thus the cost of these assemblies may not appear in the cost of the aircraft from the builders. Might be quite wrong, but just a thought.

[Jhieminga]

Wasn't it NLG before EUR?
Correct.
I thought it was NLF.
No, it was NLG but only banks used that code. The confusion arises from the fact that a sum in guilders was always written as fl.1000,- with the 'fl.' being the abbreviation for Florijn (Florin) as has been mentioned. An italic f (don't know how to find the symbol these days) was also used. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_guilder

[DHfan]

I have read somewhere that equipment required for aircraft production was supplied directly to the aircraft builder “free of charge” by the ministry. I am thinking of items such as tyres, magnetos, radios and so forth that were added to the airframe. Thus the cost of these assemblies may not appear in the cost of the aircraft from the builders. Might be quite wrong, but just a thought.

Considerably more expensive, I believe engines were "free issue" too.