Cathay Roadshow Australia

[Babyjet_dododo]

“Cathay Pacific Pilot Recruitment Roadshow in Australia! 🇦🇺

✈️ We are thrilled to announce our upcoming pilot recruitment roadshow, where we will be showcasing incredible flying opportunities!

📍Join us at our exclusive events in Sydney, Adelaide, and Perth, where we will provide valuable insights into our organization, highlight the benefits of working with us, and offer on-the-spot interviews for a limited number of slots.

Sydney: 21-22 Apr
Adelaide: 23-24 Apr
Perth: 26-27 Apr

📚 During the info session, you'll gain a comprehensive understanding of our company culture, career progression paths, training programs, and the unrivaled perks of being part of our esteemed team. Whether you're starting your aviation journey or looking to take the next step in your career, this roadshow is the perfect opportunity to connect with our professionals and explore the exciting possibilities that lie ahead.”

Let me elaborate on this marketing campaign.

Company Culture - Toxic

Career Progression - Slow….like double digits slow.

Training Programs - Comparable to low cost carriers. Min Sim time and sectors. And expected to know everything and recite all operational documents back to front.

Unrivaled (sic) perks - Is this the $50000 HKD Yearly limit Medical benefits with multiple restrictions (that will not get far in HK)?

Or maybe it’s the Amazing condition that if you get injured down route, they will still deduct the cost from your personal medical benefits?

The sub-par education allowance?

[Airblast]

…and if you’re recruited with a promise to join the B777 fleet, there’s an above average chance you’ll be switched to the A321 within weeks of joining. It has happened to at least 6 DEFOs in the past 8 months.

[PilotAdrian]

I dont know, I will go there to chech what they will tell me...

[AQIS Boigu]

A few disgruntled QLink or Network pilots might be interested in CX as a stepping stone.

Are they promising bases again? 😂😂😂

This roadshow won’t fix CX’s recruitment dilemma though

[lucille]

A lot of disgruntled Network pilots will be interested. Two days will not be enough. They will be inundated.

[KABOY]

A lot of disgruntled Network pilots will be interested. Two days will not be enough. They will be inundated.

They can go from disgruntled to depressed when they join CX.

Not happy with a contract now, how about a handbook….

[cxflog]

Out of the frying pan…

[dabz]

I'm an Auzzie who eats shrimp off the barbeeeeee.

Do I use my E3 visa to fly for an American airline where they're arguably paying the most in the aviation industry at the moment.

Or do I go and work for Cathay?

🙄

[Babyjet_dododo]

I'm an Auzzie who eats shrimp off the barbeeeeee.

Do I use my E3 visa to fly for an American airline where they're arguably paying the most in the aviation industry at the moment.

Or do I go and work for Cathay?

🙄


I think you should go work for Cathay, just think of how much money you’ll lose! Trade in the nice lifestyle in the US for a 600-1000 sq ft apartment, an amendable handbook instead of a contract, no union protection and pollution that’ll make sure you keep your windows and doors closed 90% of the year.

But be warned it’s so competitive that they’re conducting interviews at these roadshows so good luck!

[SOPS]

Trying to get an interview with Cathay, or at least, getting an interview with Cathay was like winning the lottery. [ In the old days.]

Now .. they come to you!!! ( think about that, those who are considering.)

[corporal klinger]

Do you know any airline that isn't easier to join today than 20 years ago?

[Babyjet_dododo]

Do you know any airline that isn't easier to join today than 20 years ago?

Easier yes, open door interviews - unheard of. Even airlines that run roadshows don’t conduct on the spot interviews.

[Skippy69]

Would love someone in the roadshow to have the gusto to stand up in the middle of the presentation and ask if they're considering reinstating the salary of at least 2019 which is 40% more than the trash currently on offer. And perhaps a housing allowance that will allow you to afford something semi decent??

Cathay took a great opportunity to deteriorate there conditions and now they facing the music.

Just remember SO's from other parts of the world are coming in with a bare CPL. Our GA pool here in Aus is gold in comparison to what they are generally accepting.

Anyone with the credentials and jet time for a DEFO should be asking for what they're worth and at least matching the contract (plus CPI) from the pre pandemic offers.

[VforVENDETTA]

Would love someone in the roadshow to have the gusto to stand up in the middle of the presentation and ask if they're considering reinstating the salary of at least 2019 which is 40% more than the trash currently on offer. And perhaps a housing allowance that will allow you to afford something semi decent??

Cathay took a great opportunity to deteriorate there conditions and now they facing the music.

Just remember SO's from other parts of the world are coming in with a bare CPL. Our GA pool here in Aus is gold in comparison to what they are generally accepting.

Anyone with the credentials and jet time for a DEFO should be asking for what they're worth and at least matching the contract (plus CPI) from the pre pandemic offers.
And if cathay agreed to it, you accepted, you show up on 1st day, get onboarding started, 2nd day... cathay will inform you that your terms and conditions have now been changed as stated in "the handbook". You're now under adjusted pay and benefits same as everyone else on cos 18. Remember, there's no contract at cathay. There's not even a presence from Cathay to keep their word. It says it in the first paragraph of "the handbook ". Company can change anything at their sole discretion from time to time. This document is not enforceable.

[mngmt mole]

The document is "not enforcable"...but people still foolishly join CX knowing they have no anchor to the terms of their career. It is a fool that ties themselves and their families to such a travesty.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Nice try, gents. But apart from the transparent motives behind it, you are missing the point.

Recruitment is primarily via cadets.
EK program is 180 k USD upfront.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Nice try, gents. But apart from the transparent motives behind it, you are missing the point.

Recruitment is primarily via cadets.
EK program is 180 k USD upfront.

Cadets take 18 months from employment to line check. Qualified pilots don’t need that much time, and CX really needs to plug the holes in the sinking ship quickly

[corporal klinger]

Now I am confused. Sinking or imploding?

[AviatorPac]

Would love someone in the roadshow to have the gusto to stand up in the middle of the presentation and ask if they're considering reinstating the salary of at least 2019 which is 40% more than the trash currently on offer. And perhaps a housing allowance that will allow you to afford something semi decent??

Cathay took a great opportunity to deteriorate there conditions and now they facing the music.

Just remember SO's from other parts of the world are coming in with a bare CPL. Our GA pool here in Aus is gold in comparison to what they are generally accepting.

Anyone with the credentials and jet time for a DEFO should be asking for what they're worth and at least matching the contract (plus CPI) from the pre pandemic offers.

The credentials required aren't jet time anymore; it changed at the start of the year.

You now only need to be a current turbo prop pilot working on anything MTOW > 10T and have done 100 sectors in the last 5 years to get a spot as a DEFO.

If you put yourself in the shoes of somebody with less than 1000 hours on a turbo prop who is looking at slow progression in their home country you could see why they might be interested.

The industry isn't what it was pre-covid.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Now I am confused. Sinking or imploding?

I think the sinking comes first, then the implosion, just like ocean gate

[buggaluggs]

Jayzus, next we'll be asking for 3 circuits in a cessna 150 in the last ten years, and sometimes recognize a turboprop flying overhead........

[Progress Wanchai]

And if cathay agreed to it, you accepted, you show up on 1st day, get onboarding started, 2nd day... cathay will inform you that your terms and conditions have now been changed as stated in "the handbook". You're now under adjusted pay and benefits same as everyone else on cos 18. Remember, there's no contract at cathay. There's not even a presence from Cathay to keep their word. It says it in the first paragraph of "the handbook ". Company can change anything at their sole discretion from time to time. This document is not enforceable.

But we’ve known that ever since 1999 when the A scalers were offered sign or be fired. Reinforced in 2001 when the 49ers were simply fired. Throw in the Adelaide instructors, the disregard of flight attendants contracts or the treatment of the engineers over the years.

But that didn’t stop you joining and rolling the dice gambling that it’d never happen to you. We all knew one day they’d come for us too.
Or did you think you were special?

[VforVENDETTA]

But we’ve known that ever since 1999 when the A scalers were offered sign or be fired. Reinforced in 2001 when the 49ers were simply fired. Throw in the Adelaide instructors, the disregard of flight attendants contracts or the treatment of the engineers over the years.

But that didn’t stop you joining and rolling the dice gambling that it’d never happen to you. We all knew one day they’d come for us too.
Or did you think you were special?
Didn't think cathay would swallow a suicide pill. Going from one of the most experienced flight crew body if not the most, to truly laughable hiring standards and even with that they still cant find enough pilots to operate at 4 years ago levels. We all knew it would be a disaster for cathay, so didn't think they would cut their own wrist. They did. We were wrong. They sold cos99 so strongly during the interviews. Look at this pay and this benefits... these provisions. This first in last out...
Why would china want to kill the golden goose laying golden eggs (ie hk)? Hk won't change until the 50 year transition is up, long after you retire. Etc etc

They put on quite a show to attract talent. All lies. We all got tricked into thinking it was anything but a weak transitional job. Thats why all the future comers should know what theyre signing up for and act accordingly. If knowing the truth about cathay they still think its worth a try, then by all means. But even back then it took a month for us to realize the core culture of cathay is the culture of the lie. Everything cathay management says mist be considered a lie. Personally I fell in love with hk. So I learned to ignore the toxicity and cathay culture. This led me to decide to pass up opportunities to get back to my home country. I fooled myself and it didn't work out. Hence warning others now. And hk is far less than what it used to be on so many levels, so there goes that.

The point is, cathay is an employer without any credibility or sense of decency or sound business ackumen. If you are desparate enough to work for such a toxic employer, then go for it. At least you won't be stupid enough to walk in thinking it's a long term job.

[corporal klinger]

PW is correct though.You accepted the conditions and history when you joined, the only difference is that you hoped future cuts would only affect new-joiners and they would grandfather your "contract". I know you did because we all did. If you are honest, you also have to admit that recruitment via the cadet scheme has not changed since you joined. STW is 100% correct, cadets will be the primary recruitment channel, and apparently the offer is still good enough. Or maybe not, then they will raise the package, they will adjust it to meet their targets, as you would expect. All the talk about CX imploding or sinking is not believable coming from you, after all you are still here. You just must see this makes you untrustworthy. You evaluated your options and CX is still the best one. Why you can't accept or understand the exact same calculation is behind newjoiners decision to sign up is beyond me. You obviously try to "warn" others because you want to reduce numbers of recruits, you hope CX will be forced to pay more to you as result. However, nobody reading your posts doesn't see you motives, you are wasting your energy in my opinion. The macro situation will decide anyway, which you can't manipulate. It's a fool's game you are playing.

[raven11]

Klinger.

Like most of us, VforVendetta left Cathay a long time ago.
He’s trying warn others to “…not make the mistake I made.”
And he’s 100% right.

BTW a cadet only hiring policy is a fool’s errand…just like most of the misguided policy initiatives made by Cathay management.

[corporal klinger]

He did not leave.

[anxiao]

Spoke to a guy at an airshow recently who's son has been accepted for the cadet course. "Is that in Adelaide?", I asked. No probably not. They do 9 months in Hong Kong for ground school as it has been taken in-house. Then most likely to the USA for the training, and back to HK for the jet conversion. During that 9 months they do not get paid, and have no housing allowance, which is why the son is moving back in with his parents in HK. And the housing allowance will be withheld for some years on course completion to "pay back" for the training.

Knowing the professionalism of both Perth (UK) and Adelaide and the product that came out of them I cannot see that this is anything but a penny pinching way to get a second officer at minimal cost. I doubt CX will pay for a proper course at Embry-Riddle or one of the very competent US universities that provide complete CPL courses.

Continually stretching for that poison dollar...

[Babyjet_dododo]

Spoke to a guy at an airshow recently who's son has been accepted for the cadet course. "Is that in Adelaide?", I asked. No probably not. They do 9 months in Hong Kong for ground school as it has been taken in-house. Then most likely to the USA for the training, and back to HK for the jet conversion. During that 9 months they do not get paid, and have no housing allowance, which is why the son is moving back in with his parents in HK. And the housing allowance will be withheld for some years on course completion to "pay back" for the training.

Knowing the professionalism of both Perth (UK) and Adelaide and the product that came out of them I cannot see that this is anything but a penny pinching way to get a second officer at minimal cost. I doubt CX will pay for a proper course at Embry-Riddle or one of the very competent US universities that provide complete CPL courses.

Continually stretching for that poison dollar...

Imagine living in HK on an SO wage without a pilot allowance……. Roach infested cage apartments anyone?

[Sam Ting Wong]

The poor guy. Forced on a cadet course. Heartbreaking.

[AQIS Boigu]

The poor guy. Forced on a cadet course. Heartbreaking.

I know, cry me a river

He/She can always fly a 40 year old C206 in the Territory, ideally overloaded with passengers and their BO

[captaindbusdriver]

What is truly being offered as an enticement to work for Cx? Shiny jets is it? Being the premium Airline they once were is a good enough draw card so management says. What is guaranteed? No roster requests. Therefore no family and friends time = no lifestyle. From observation, whatever is requested is never ever received. To-the-point, if you ask for days off at the beginning of the month to attend a birthday function, you get those days off at the end of the month, therefore no longer able to attend the function. The rosters are built so tightly roster swaps are impossible. There's a FB group for roster swaps and 10 seconds after roster publication the group lights up with roster swap requests. The only way to build your lifestyle is sick days. If you take too many of these an invitation is sent for a meeting.

If lifestyle is not a concern and you never want to be with those people important in your life on special occasions then join Cathay,

The salary on offer living in HK is possibly sufficient for a single person with other income avenues or with no entertainment expenses. No future planning. Not sufficient for a family. Housing allowance is not even close to giving you a comfortable apartment without putting your hand in your pocket.

Personally, the best result for the Australian leg is no one shows up.

[Oasis]

It will become a stepping stone. The rosters look awful. As you said, no request system to speak of. Every captain is a training captain in real terms. Not the same place it was 4 years ago.

[intheblack]

Just wondering if anyone without prior flying experience is intending to go for the roadshow?
Or is it something you have to apply and see if you are 'invited' for it instead?

[VforVENDETTA]

He did not leave.
I left cathay 2 years ago.

[intheblack]

Which country were you originally from?
Did you join as a cadet?

[Gaisha]

No contract , only a handbook that can change on a whim. No stability for pay , 50% productivity based pay which means that the months that you work low hours , it will be difficult to make ends meet. Told you’ll be operating long haul at the interview only to be shoved on a narrow body when you get to HK. 3 year bond means you will be missing opportunities in other parts of the world that pay better and have union protections unlike in HK.
Affording a place bigger than 400 sqft will be difficult on that pay but if you are young and single … and don’t hope of starting a family anytime soon , it’s ok.
Finally , HK as a city is struggling to get back to where it was. The local economy is in tatters after Covid and establishments are shutting down every week due to poor demand.
The pay structure in cathay is not fixed and they can change it whenever they want….

come at your own risk.

[intheblack]

Anyone got invited to attend the roadshow on 27 April for the morning session?

[GarrettDV]

Guys,

(About the SO position.)
It seems you’re all missing many points…
This kind of opportunity is not for people who wants to go there with their family, or people with thousands of flight hours and so on.
This kind of job is perfect for low-timers, you go to HK working for them 3 years and you got your 1500 flights hours, type rating, and came come back to work in a major in Europe. In the meantime many people will continue to go on many assessments in Europe without success, a loss of time and money.
That’s why they have a lot of candidates.
By the way, it’s not because you apply to be at the pilot roadshow that they will call you. They select.

But I assume that a lot of people talking about this subject already have nice job's and stuff.
If you’re low-timer and looking for a pilot position the chances are very low. In all the major 3000 candidates for 50 pilots recruited. And it’s not better in the private sector. And not everybody can afford a 35000€ type rating…

[richardstroker]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1179x920/e9444573_efdf_4e89_9b74_49044f4a0e5b_5bc5b6038bc679556aac7ef b5b802107b84f5fc5.jpeg
Perth was a roaring success

[Skippy69]

180K equivalent AUD for a DEFO wide body, yea nah.... same gig in Aus is paying close to double that without living in an expensive city like Honkers. These guys are mad if they see themselves as competitive.

[Zi Peng]

Guys,

(About the SO position.)
It seems you’re all missing many points…
This kind of opportunity is not for people who wants to go there with their family, or people with thousands of flight hours and so on.
This kind of job is perfect for low-timers, you go to HK working for them 3 years and you got your 1500 flights hours, type rating, and came come back to work in a major in Europe. In the meantime many people will continue to go on many assessments in Europe without success, a loss of time and money.
That’s why they have a lot of candidates.
By the way, it’s not because you apply to be at the pilot roadshow that they will call you. They select.

But I assume that a lot of people talking about this subject already have nice job's and stuff.
If you’re low-timer and looking for a pilot position the chances are very low. In all the major 3000 candidates for 50 pilots recruited. And it’s not better in the private sector. And not everybody can afford a 35000€ type rating…

Fair enough.
Just not sure about those three years…..
Also they are not entirely stupid and just hiring locals that won’t go anywhere.

[AQIS Boigu]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1179x920/e9444573_efdf_4e89_9b74_49044f4a0e5b_5bc5b6038bc679556aac7ef b5b802107b84f5fc5.jpeg
Perth was a roaring success

The potential new joiner sitting on the left wearing a mask will fit right in 😂

[Babyjet_dododo]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1179x920/e9444573_efdf_4e89_9b74_49044f4a0e5b_5bc5b6038bc679556aac7ef b5b802107b84f5fc5.jpeg
Perth was a roaring success

I would love to see that slide of general living costs in Hong Kong. Highly doubt it’ll be accurate.

[GarrettDV]

Fair enough.
Just not sure about those three years…..
Also they are not entirely stupid and just hiring locals that won’t go anywhere.

I can tell you that their bond is 3 years.
And even if you want to leave before you can, you just need to pay, like in almost every airline.

And of course they hire not only locals, that’s why they conduct roadshows all over the world.

[KABOY]

I would love to see that slide of general living costs in Hong Kong. Highly doubt it’ll be accurate.

A roadshow where they are required to provide it because of the woeful renumeration sums up the Barnum show.

Looks like crap, smells like crap, must be crap........no amount of sugar coating it.

[Lily0623]

I don't know where u got that figure from, but it's more like 260k AUD and keep in mind ur going straight in to widebody. How many years u gonna spend in Qantas before u r qualified to be sitting in the right hand seat of a 787?

[Skippy69]

FO1 salary 897,889 hkd, that not inclusive of the 20k housing allowance that won't get something that's super great.. so go plug that into current exchange rate.... It squares to 175,725.41 Aus dollars. Qantas taking direct into the 737 on 200+ AUD. Virgin FO EBA that's about to be voted down is offering 179... Not inclusive of allowances... That's to live in Aus with a house bigger than a shoebox... Cathay is far from Competitive.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_20240430_204519_ddf306a42d30df9e56e0b5d15981ae211 f235c47.png

[Lily0623]

Yep, I understand what u trynna say, but how much tax u paying+Medicare in AUS and put everything aside, not everyone wants to spend their whole career in a 737, widebody p2/command hours r in another level, correct me if I'm wrong

[Fridayflyer]

The potential new joiner sitting on the left wearing a mask will fit right in 😂

hahahahah very accurate.
The fact cathay cabin crew are still wearing those things is depressing. A smile every now and then from your colleagues would be nice

[Zi Peng]

When I look at the aircrew list I see 90% of the new joiners are locals joining as SO.
There are a few desperate DEFO that don’t have better options in their part of the world.
CX has also signed a loa with two major aviation college in China. The trend is obvious.

[Babyjet_dododo]

FO1 salary 897,889 hkd, that not inclusive of the 20k housing allowance that won't get something that's super great.. so go plug that into current exchange rate.... It squares to 175,725.41 Aus dollars. Qantas taking direct into the 737 on 200+ AUD. Virgin FO EBA that's about to be voted down is offering 179... Not inclusive of allowances... That's to live in Aus with a house bigger than a shoebox... Cathay is far from Competitive.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/screenshot_20240430_204519_ddf306a42d30df9e56e0b5d15981ae211 f235c47.png

Living costs (all in HKD)
Accommodation: $360,000
Tax @ 15%: 165,000
Utilities: $30,000
Medical insurance (yes you will need it) family of 4: $25,000
Transport (taxi/PT/Uber): $12,000
Groceries: $100,000
Out of pocket allowances for education (ESF): $90,000
Extra curricular for the kids: $24,000
Aviation medical: $2500

Just a smidge under $810k.

A saving of $290k per year, I haven’t taken into account other expenses like: Restaurants, take-away, domestic helper, holidays, Annual theme park tickets etc…. This is the minimum spend to have a semi-normal life.

[vIrot8]

And ideas on what they ask in the first 30 minute team meetings for a DEFO?

[KABOY]

I like the word 'target annual salary' another handbook masterpiece.

What this is is a number they will inflate as much as possible on the back of the basic salary and the monthly productivity pay. The monthly productivity pay relies on you doing more than the minimum which is not a fixed number thanks to the handbook. Take any type of leave and your salary takes a hit.

If everyone starts doing big numbers, the minimum changes under the handbook. What you see with that number is a 'best case', the handbook is a masterful document that allows CX to balance their salaries across the pilot group, so real world inflation cannot creep in and start to increase their cost base.

I don't know where u got that figure from, but it's more like 260k AUD and keep in mind ur going straight in to widebody. How many years u gonna spend in Qantas before u r qualified to be sitting in the right hand seat of a 787?

CX are ramping up the 321 ops, so don't be looking through those widebody glasses too hard. The joy of flying narrow bodies in China under this handbook makes a back seat job in any airline outside of China 'truly glorious' in the words of a wise Chinaman.

Chinese airlines offer a king's ransom to fly domestically, CX offers a joker's handbook.

[corporal klinger]

Living costs (all in HKD)
Accommodation: $360,000
Tax @ 15%: 165,000
Utilities: $30,000
Medical insurance (yes you will need it) family of 4: $25,000
Transport (taxi/PT/Uber): $12,000
Groceries: $100,000
Out of pocket allowances for education (ESF): $90,000
Extra curricular for the kids: $24,000
Aviation medical: $2500

Just a smidge under $810k.

A saving of $290k per year, I haven’t taken into account other expenses like: Restaurants, take-away, domestic helper, holidays, Annual theme park tickets etc…. This is the minimum spend to have a semi-normal life.

Your numbers seem high and slightly arbitrary, but for the sake of the argument:

Can you give a similar example of a different airline with a more favorable result ? (except major US)

[main_dog]

Hard to be fair and make a balanced budget, rent could be way higher (living in a nicer area), or way lower (Tung Chung or New Territories apartment for one). Car? My additional insurance for a family of three (outpatient excluded) is over 40k… maybe I’m getting shafted. :}

That said as KAboy points out, the remuneration side of the equation is also debatable as those are “target” salaries, ie including productivity pay over which you have zero control. Cancellation, roster change, AOGs, another downturn (God forbid!) or even just get sick and your pay plummets. In addition, the extra hours you need to fly to achieve that target will change at their discretion.

For sure on the 747 they’re nowhere near those target numbers, nor are they on the 321, and these are the fleets you will likely be assigned to. Having said that they’ve thrown a couple bonuses/profit shares our way recently.

What would really help is a higher ratio of fixed to variable salary, to give both new joiners and existing crew some financial certainty. Right now it’s a lottery.

[Gnadenburg]

Great to see an ex-Dragonair pilot and ex-DPA member hard selling Cathay. Obviously thought his mates well treated.

[Babyjet_dododo]

Your numbers seem high and slightly arbitrary, but for the sake of the argument:

Can you give a similar example of a different airline with a more favorable result ? (except major US)


Please advise what in my calculations seem high? What I calculated is the costs of living in DB with 2 kids. I would love to see your numbers…. I’m waiting with bated breath.

Unfortunately, I do not have experience in living and working in the US, so I can’t speak from experience.

[corporal klinger]

I was interested if you can offer a more favorable equation at an alternative airline. Entry level pay, 2 kids, minus rent, education, activities, transport, tax, food etc. I don't think you can save more elsewhere, so just curious.

My insurance is with Axa and cost about 13 k for the family. A 3 bed in DB is about 24k at the moment, I almost never really need a taxi, my medical cost less than 1000 and my kids normally just play with other kids, for free. I think you would be surprised how expensive life actually is elsewhere, child care, private car, housing, energy. But please bring it on.

[BuzzBox]

A 3 bed in DB is about 24k at the moment...

How many sq.ft?

[corporal klinger]

1000/ 900 net sq feet. With a pool and sea view.

https://www.midland.com.hk/en/transaction/New-Territories-Discovery-Bay-Discovery-Bay-I20240303553

Gnadenburg,

I am not selling CX. I am just saying a lot of people have no better alternatives. And you are right,the handling of Dragon was appaling.

[Babyjet_dododo]

I was interested if you can offer a more favorable equation at an alternative airline. Entry level pay, 2 kids, minus rent, education, activities, transport, tax, food etc. I don't think you can save more elsewhere, so just curious.

My insurance is with Axa and cost about 13 k for the family. A 3 bed in DB is about 24k at the moment, I almost never really need a taxi, my medical cost less than 1000 and my kids normally just play with other kids, for free. I think you would be surprised how expensive life actually is elsewhere, child care, private car, housing, energy. But please bring it on.

You found one apartment for $24k. An outlier of the average cost of rent in DB, when in reality the average cost is $30 per square foot. Let’s stick to actual averages instead of going to the lowest possible expense and declaring it as a true representation of the market.

In your experience how much do you think it will cost per annum to live in Hong Kong?

[corporal klinger]

My numbers are correct. This is an actual recent lease, it is public information. Anyone can check for himself.

Tung Chung is even cheaper:
https://www.midland.com.hk/en/transaction/New-Territories-Tung-Chung-Tung-Chung-Crescent-I20230600506

But as I said from the beginning, for the sake of the argument let's assume your numbers are correct, where is it better? Show me the same calculation with an entry level pay and demonstrate how much more you can save.That is all I am asking you.

To make it clear, my claim is not that Cathay is good, but that it is even worse elsewhere.

[Babyjet_dododo]

My numbers are correct. This is an actual recent lease, it is public information. Anyone can check for himself.

Tung Chung is even cheaper:
https://www.midland.com.hk/en/transaction/New-Territories-Tung-Chung-Tung-Chung-Crescent-I20230600506

But as I said from the beginning, for the sake of the argument let's assume your numbers are correct, where is it better? Show me the same calculation with an entry level pay and demonstrate how much more you can save.That is all I am asking you.

To make it clear, my claim is not that Cathay is good, but that it is even worse elsewhere.

I know public information, so is the fact that DB is at $30 per sq ft. Check the history on Centradata website and the average cost is as I stated. I’m still waiting for a break down the cost of living in Hong Kong.

Again, I can’t speak for the US/M.E/Aus/EU as I have not resided in those countries to know what type of savings I’m expecting to make VS Hong Kong

[corporal klinger]

You allegedly left Hong Kong but you don't know the conditions elsewhere. Interesting.

[BuzzBox]

1000/ 900 net sq feet. With a pool and sea view.

Sad. There was a time when CX pilots could afford something more like this: https://www.midland.com.hk/en/property/New-Territories-Discovery-Bay-Discovery-Bay-Phase-3-Headland-Village-Seabee-Lane-1-269-Seabee-Lane-House-M101017008

How times change, and not for the better.

[Babyjet_dododo]

You allegedly left Hong Kong but you don't know the conditions elsewhere. Interesting.

Very Interesting Indeed

[Dora-9]

Buzzbox:

There was a time when CX pilots could afford something more like this

How times have changed - when I joined in 1989, Cathay paid for the 3000 sq ft HOUSE across the road from this!

[InSoMnIaC]

Thanks for all the positivity guys. I suggest those unhappy with current conditions at cx take their own advice and look elsewhere. You might be a little less miserable in life.

[Gnadenburg]

Gnadenburg,

I am not selling CX. I am just saying a lot of people have no better alternatives. And you are right,the handling of Dragon was appaling.

I was referring to the ex-KA pilot, now CX manager, at the roadshow. No ill-feelings but if you had any close friends or colleagues at KA, it would take considerable showmanship to sell this deal.

The misery at CX for many is very real. I’ve been taken back by the level it seems to have reached. I’ve witnessed chat groups and meeting folks in person, it’s quite sad. I bumped into a few 777 guys and they were complaining about only getting 8 days off. This doesn’t sound right but that’s one of many gripes they had.

CX is no longer the golden hand-cuffs of old, however many pilots still seem to be hand-cuffed in a misery that no longer pays. This is the fate of a lot of pilots in our industry and generally they live in their home countries surrounded by friends and family. Hating your job isn’t uncommon, but hating Hong Kong as well and not being afforded a lifestyle will take its toll. Take a closer look at the options out there. Throw in bad health or a failed marriage and this whole CX debacle could ruin your life completely.

[cxflog]

Thanks for all the positivity guys. I suggest those unhappy with current conditions at cx take their own advice and look elsewhere. You might be a little less miserable in life.
Most of us that do hang around here have long since left. We’re just making sure those that do some research on their new potential employer are aware of the kind that they really are. No misery implied…

[cadetjockey]

Take a closer look at the options out there. Throw in bad health or a failed marriage and this whole CX debacle could ruin your life completely.


LOL so ill health and a divorce but the choice of one’s employer is to blame for ruining their life..?

[KABOY]

LOL so ill health and a divorce but the choice of one’s employer is to blame for ruining their life..?

I think that is a high probability when you signed up for something, left your home and then had the rug pulled out from under you with a new employment term that left you with little option but to eat it... So I would say that CX can well and truly can be to blame.

CX pilot wives were well known Tai Tai's in days gone by, so you don't think it ruined the spouses as well?

[cadetjockey]

I think that is a high probability when you signed up for something, left your home and then had the rug pulled out from under you with a new employment term that left you with little option but to eat it... So I would say that CX can well and truly can be to blame.

CX pilot wives were well known Tai Tai's in days gone by, so you don't think it ruined the spouses as well?


yes true, I guess it’s ruined the lives of their spouses children and grand children and great grand children too, plus all the children’s and grand children’s spouses too… nothing to do with the illness or divorce

[Icantleavebecause]

Some will hate Cathay and Hong Kong no matter what and some will love Cathay and Hong Kong no matter what. All you have to do is go back through this forum before CoS18 was imposed and you will see the same hatred/praise then as you do now.

Write down the pros and cons of CX and HK and see if it works for you. For some, it will work and for some, it won't. Only you can decide.

The most important thing is that amongst all of the arguing that goes on here is, there's a lot of good advice given on both sides of the fence. The key is sifting through it all, extracting the correct information and then make a decision. One fundamental fact is that things are very different over there now.

[VR-HFX]

And what if you wanted to actually send your kids to school?

[Gnadenburg]

LOL so ill health and a divorce but the choice of one’s employer is to blame for ruining their life..?

It wasn’t a difficult point to understand. A whole bunch of miserable and unhappy people at Cathay, who aren’t in a position to, or are unwilling to brave the change, may think the situation can’t get worse. This negativity will eventually fail health and marriages.

When morale was this low in the CX & KA days, at least you had amazing holiday and sick leave schemes which offered respite and sanity. Coupled with good money and the scenario was fairly labelled the golden handcuffs.

[Zi Peng]

Some will hate Cathay and Hong Kong no matter what and some will love Cathay and Hong Kong no matter what. All you have to do is go back through this forum before CoS18 was imposed and you will see the same hatred/praise then as you do now.

Write down the pros and cons of CX and HK and see if it works for you. For some, it will work and for some, it won't. Only you can decide.

The most important thing is that amongst all of the arguing that goes on here is, there's a lot of good advice given on both sides of the fence. The key is sifting through it all, extracting the correct information and then make a decision. One fundamental fact is that things are very different over there now.

A very balanced post.
Basically the two buckets principle !

[AQIS Boigu]

A very balanced post.
Basically the two buckets principle !

Except there is no more gold to fill up the bucket in HKG; particularly for pilots