Vulcan b2 mass rapid start

[BEagle]

Is there anyone still alive who remembers when Mass Rapid starts were banned on the Vulcan B2?

We did single rapid and simultaneous cross feed to the other 3, or the occasional 'ripple rapid', but they were nothing like the true Mass Rapid start.

[mahogany bob]

About 1968/9

[Yellow Sun]

Is there anyone still alive who remembers when Mass Rapid starts were banned on the Vulcan B2?

We did single rapid and simultaneous cross feed to the other 3, or the occasional 'ripple rapid', but they were nothing like to true Mass Rapid start.

The reason behind discontinuing the use of the Simultaneous Start in favour of individually selected rapid starts (2,3,1,4) was that the likelihood of of a failure to start was significantly lower and the additional time required was negligible. The only significant feature that was lost was the automatic start of the PFCUs during the Sim Start sequence. Even this could be regained by holding down the Rudder channel start button whilst the alternators came in line. Simultaneous Start sounded like a good idea but in practice wasn’t worth the extra complications.

YS

[anxiao]

Late 1960s, probably '67 or '68, as an 'orrible Air Cadet we did a squadron visit to Finningly, then a Vulcan base. In the hangars a very patient tech explained the start sequence of the QRA Vulcans, with a neat onboard analogue device that appeared to switch the air start source to the next engine as soon as the previous engine was self sustaining. This may be the ripple start referred to. It allowed for, ISTR a four engine start in less than 2 minutes with the aircraft being well airborne before the famous "4 Minute Warning".

I can only thank the unsung heroes of ranks and officers who entertained Air Cadets on station visits and gave us enthusiasm and interest which we took into our aviation careers. I hold great memories of those times.

[Bill Macgillivray]

I think (age permitting) that it was late 1969 as that was when I was sent to "Wonderful 101" as sqn. QFI and I do remember doing a couple that year (I think!!) What is this old age thing??

[Robert Wyer]

Growing old is inevitable, growing up is far more fun, your choice!!

[Barksdale Boy]

I think (age permitting) that it was late 1969 as that was when I was sent to "Wonderful 101" as sqn. QFI and I do remember doing a couple that year (I think!!) What is this old age thing??
I think that's right. I was on 101 at the same time.

[Exrigger]

230 OCU Scampton 1970/71, remember at least one being done as I was stood underneath and the noise and air pressure were phenomenal, as the new boy others thought it was amusing not to tell me :sad:

[mahogany bob]

Used to start all 4 with a mass rapid start from OUTSIDE the aircraft ! At Scampton in the mid 60s.

on one memorable occasion the engines were started from outside but the key to the entrance door - which I think was secured round the nav radars neck ? had been temporarily lost / forgotten - so the aircraft was throbbing away with the crew stuck outside!

can’t remember for how long the engines were running unattended but I think it was for quite a long time!

this method was stopped shortly afterwards!

[Barksdale Boy]

Used to start all 4 with a mass rapid start from OUTSIDE the aircraft ! At Scampton in the mid 60s.

on one memorable occasion the engines were started from outside but the key to the entrance door - which I think was secured round the nav radars neck ? had been temporarily lost / forgotten - so the aircraft was throbbing away with the crew stuck outside!

can’t remember for how long the engines were running unattended but I think it was for quite a long time!

this method was stopped shortly afterwards!
Bob, the key round the nav radar's neck was for the weapon.

[BEagle]

.....the key round the nav radar's neck was for the weapon.

Surely not in the 'mid 60s' with the weapon of the time?

[mahogany bob]

Barksdale Boy

greetings - it WAS a long time ago !
who had the key to the entrance door then ? It definitely wasn’t the capt or CP !
I think that the nav rad had the keys for the weopon AND the entrance door??

[Yellow Sun]

Used to start all 4 with a mass rapid start from OUTSIDE the aircraft ! At Scampton in the mid 60s.

on one memorable occasion the engines were started from outside but the key to the entrance door - which I think was secured round the nav radars neck ? had been temporarily lost / forgotten - so the aircraft was throbbing away with the crew stuck outside!

can’t remember for how long the engines were running unattended but I think it was for quite a long time!

this method was stopped shortly afterwards!

First of all, I wasn't on the Vulcan at the time of this incident but have heard the story on many occaisions and I do know one of the participants. The tale is told in Tony Blackman's "Vulcan Boys2 pp 47..49 and seems to correspond in most details with what I have heard over the years. It was a B1A which had an electrical sim start that was activated externally. The place of the occurrence was Waddington and the captain a flight commander with an Italian sounding name. In a later life he was my station commander; I didn't bring it up with him!

That's what I know.
YS

[BEagle]

The saga is described here: See https://vulcantothesky.org/articles/1960-1965-years-of-service/ and scroll down to the 'Quick Reaction Alert' section.

[mahogany bob]

RAPID START

well I remember ? starting the engines from outside the ac at Scampton ( Blue Steel ) in about 1967 - I was the CP and didn’t carry the key - I’d still put my money that it was the nav rad who carried the door key (but I have lost bets before ! )

[50+Ray]

Reference 'Who had the key?'
As a co on my first crew I had the door key as my Captain was vertically challenged and could not easily reach the keyhole.
Captain had to clear us all to enter the area with the armed Policeman, then I ran ahead to get the door open. Captain first up the ladder, co second.
Any Morris Minor key would have done the job.
Nav Rad had the weapon key around his neck.
Ray

[mahogany bob]

I surrender ! ‘The key ‘May have been carried by my captain John Caskie a lovely Scotsman.

[Barksdale Boy]

First of all, I wasn't on the Vulcan at the time of this incident but have heard the story on many occaisions and I do know one of the participants. The tale is told in Tony Blackman's "Vulcan Boys2 pp 47..49 and seems to correspond in most details with what I have heard over the years. It was a B1A which had an electrical sim start that was activated externally. The place of the occurrence was Waddington and the captain a flight commander with an Italian sounding name. In a later life he was my station commander; I didn't bring it up with him!

That's what I know.
YS
I think he was known as "Stop me and buy one".

[57mm]

Was the door key the same one that locked the Canberra cockpit entrance door? IIRC, the door handle popped out, looking very much like a Morris Minor one.