A320 Command (in a year) or EK A380 First Officer.

[Busdriver_1122]

Hello Aviators,

hope you guys are doing well.

Currently I am employed with a ME LCC. With 3000 hours as a FO. (A320)
my Pre-Command should start soon in a couple of months.
And
I have been invited by Emirates for a A380 FO position.
while I see alot of my colleagues from my current airline are going forward with EK.
I dont want to jump to a conclusion and think outside of the “Big Shiny Jets”.
If I was 1500 hours in and 23 years old. I would definitely go without a doubt.
But being 29 and recently married and with a prospect of becoming a Captain here soon. I find myself kinda in a pickle.

two options that come to my mind are
1- Take command first and get the experience. Then fulfill my dream of flying a legace with DEC.

2- Join EK get all the benefits, But forget about command for the next 7-8 years atleast.

your two cents will be appreciated.
thanks

[Meursault]

I would compare your alternatives by projected income and lifestyle/ days off and not by early or late command.

[Nikker]

1- Take command first and get the experience. Then fulfill my dream of flying a legace with DEC.


Did you look at the options you will have as DEC? There are not so many, and certainly no legacies as far as I know. If we are talking about EK, they might take you for accelerated command,but not DEC because you are on 320. So you would need to fly close to 4 years on the left seat 320 to meet EK requirement of 3000h PIC just to fly as FO once again for god knows how long(maybe even as many years as guys who joined as normal FOs).

[Busdriver_1122]

I would compare your alternatives by projected income and lifestyle/ days off and not by early or late command.

As per the comparison.
in my current airline- More time with family (i am married) and way more income looking at the next 10 years.
Emirates- better lifestyle

[decrab]

Hello Aviators,

hope you guys are doing well.

Currently I am employed with a ME LCC. With 3000 hours as a FO. (A320)
my Pre-Command should start soon in a couple of months.
And
I have been invited by Emirates for a A380 FO position.
while I see alot of my colleagues from my current airline are going forward with EK.
I dont want to jump to a conclusion and think outside of the “Big Shiny Jets”.
If I was 1500 hours in and 23 years old. I would definitely go without a doubt.
But being 29 and recently married and with a prospect of becoming a Captain here soon. I find myself kinda in a pickle.

two options that come to my mind are
1- Take command first and get the experience. Then fulfill my dream of flying a legace with DEC.

2- Join EK get all the benefits, But forget about command for the next 7-8 years atleast.

your two cents will be appreciated.
thanks


Hi BusDriver,

I am in the exact same position as you, albeit a bit older and I have decided to go with EK. Can you please tell me via DM when were you called? I’m still stuck in the holding pool but with the same experience as you.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Tough call. 10 years in aviation are an eternity. Maybe stay put.

On the day of your retirement you will know if it was a good decision :-)

[lederhosen]

The traditional view is to get the command experience first as this gives the best options for your further career. My observation of the careers of ex colleagues who went to the middle east big 3 is that those with previous command experience got (and passed) the upgrade much quicker than those that went direct from an FO position.

Not everyone finds the big 3 lifestyle a great long term option. If you have A320 command experience you have a lot of options elsewhere if things don’t work out and the time on the A320 may not delay substantially how long it takes to get a command on a widebody if everything does work out.

[seventhreedriver]

Just ask yourself a few questions:

-Why would you like to join EK? The hat/type/layovers? Of course, you would never believe it unless you tried it (been there, done that), but all the novelties will wear off after 6 months... All that is left is: days off (rest - takes a few days after a log trip to be yourself again) and pay. The older you get, the more pay you would sacrifice for time off...
-Why would you like to leave your current company? Is there any genuine grievance of the grass just seem to be greener on the other side.

Type: 320 - even if the world turns upside down: jobs for DECs will be available. 380 - sorry to be insensitive, but it seems to be the most useless type rating, especially as an FO...

You are a bit lucky having never operated as a captain. Once in the left seat: you are responsible for the flight deck environment. Think about the bad commanders you had to operate in the last couple years. With EK, you might have to endure this for the coming years...

Short term pain/gain vs long term gain/pain. LCC CPT payment on the short term is better vs EK benefits on the long term might be better... EK bonuses: nice addition if you are lucky.

ID tickets: get burned once, you will get full fare tickets... (I tried to use it once: costed me 300USD more than the confirmed ticket would have costed me as I had to buy a last minute ticket due to the flight filled with empty seats x 10 ID ticket holders...)

On the other hand, if you have no children: it is the best time to try new things.

Did not make decisions easier, did I... :-)

[BANANASBANANAS]

There is one inviolable 'rule' as an expat and that is that once you have a command, never, ever give it up for another expat position. Give it up to go 'home' to a legacy carrier if it feels right but never give up your command for an expat F/O job.
You therefore have a big decision to make, and fairly quickly. I don't know enough about your specific situation to comment in detail but if you are being offered, or will shortly be offered, A320 command, I would be inclined to take the command. Ask yourself this: If the aviation industry experiences another downturn, where would you be better placed to get another job; as a A320 captain or A380 F/O?

[krismiler]

If flying for EK is your long term goal and you want to stay until retirement, it would make sense to get in and join the seniority list ASAP. However be aware it’s not all sunshine and roses. Fatigue is a major issue though not as bad as the B777. Pilots leave EK without a job to go to, or to join an LCC which really makes you wonder. The divorce rate in Emirates is sky high which would be a consideration as you’re recently married.

Sticking around for your upgrade will put you in a good position if you want to move to another A320 job as a Captain. It’s such a ubiquitous type they are everywhere and there are plenty of jobs going. You could also qualify for an accelerated command later on with one of the ME3 if you got sick of bus driving, joining as a DEC on the A320 with a promise of the A330 after a year or right seat A380/A350 for a couple of years and swap seats. DEC with an LCC in your home country is a possibility as well and you are still young enough to go back to the right seat if your national airline starts recruiting.

[Busdriver_1122]

Just ask yourself a few questions:

-Why would you like to join EK? The hat/type/layovers? Of course, you would never believe it unless you tried it (been there, done that), but all the novelties will wear off after 6 months... All that is left is: days off (rest - takes a few days after a log trip to be yourself again) and pay. The older you get, the more pay you would sacrifice for time off...
-Why would you like to leave your current company? Is there any genuine grievance of the grass just seem to be greener on the other side.

Type: 320 - even if the world turns upside down: jobs for DECs will be available. 380 - sorry to be insensitive, but it seems to be the most useless type rating, especially as an FO...

You are a bit lucky having never operated as a captain. Once in the left seat: you are responsible for the flight deck environment. Think about the bad commanders you had to operate in the last couple years. With EK, you might have to endure this for the coming years...

Short term pain/gain vs long term gain/pain. LCC CPT payment on the short term is better vs EK benefits on the long term might be better... EK bonuses: nice addition if you are lucky.

ID tickets: get burned once, you will get full fare tickets... (I tried to use it once: costed me 300USD more than the confirmed ticket would have costed me as I had to buy a last minute ticket due to the flight filled with empty seats x 10 ID ticket holders...)

On the other hand, if you have no children: it is the best time to try new things.

Did not make decisions easier, did I... :-)

That sums it up really well. Thanks for the honest advice bro.

[Busdriver_1122]

[QUOTE=BANANASBANANAS;11616065]There is one inviolable 'rule' as an expat and that is that once you have a command, never, ever give it up for another expat position. Give it up to go 'home' to a legacy carrier if it feels right but never give up your command for an expat F/O job.
You therefore have a big decision to make, and fairly quickly. I don't know enough about your specific situation to comment in detail but if you are being offered, or will shortly be offered, A320 command, I would be inclined to take the command. Ask yourself this: If the aviation industry experiences another downturn, where would you be better placed to get another job; as a A320 captain or A380 F/O?[/QUOTE

Exactly. Getting the command puts me in a better position to be re-hired if a situation like Covid was to ever happen again.

[Busdriver_1122]

If flying for EK is your long term goal and you want to stay until retirement, it would make sense to get in and join the seniority list ASAP. However be aware it’s not all sunshine and roses. Fatigue is a major issue though not as bad as the B777. Pilots leave EK without a job to go to, or to join an LCC which really makes you wonder. The divorce rate in Emirates is sky high which would be a consideration as you’re recently married.

Sticking around for your upgrade will put you in a good position if you want to move to another A320 job as a Captain. It’s such a ubiquitous type they are everywhere and there are plenty of jobs going. You could also qualify for an accelerated command later on with one of the ME3 if you got sick of bus driving, joining as a DEC on the A320 with a promise of the A330 after a year or right seat A380/A350 for a couple of years and swap seats. DEC with an LCC in your home country is a possibility as well and you are still young enough to go back to the right seat if your national airline starts recruiting.

I spoke to a Colleague who just joined EK. He is in line training now.
To be frank when i asked him what made you leave your command and head for 8 years of flying on the RHS?
He could only come up with- Big Jets, Hat, Car to pick and drop from work. THATS IT

[Flamengo]

A big thanks to all the contributors to this thread. Of course, thanks to Bus Driver for asking the question.

I'm in a similar situation as Bus Driver. Some very constructive comments and many things to ponder. No one size fits all.

[weimaraners]

Someone with more experience can correct me if I'm wrong:

but if you give up your command for a RHS on the ME, after a few years of flying as an FO and you would be forced to go back to previous airline or another (Covid, economic crisis,) there would be no DEC jobs available if you have been flying as FO for let's say the last 3 to 5 years.... ?¿?

[krismiler]

Seniority comes into play in this case, it’s likely you’d be starting again at the back of the list. DEC highly unlikely unless you’re a current Captain, you’d need to prove yourself all over again.

[5strypes]

As someone who has done exactly this, given up 320 command for RHS in EK, it's all a personal decision. At the end of the day, you're flying planes. Is there likely to be a covid situation in the next 3/4 years, hopefully not. You'll realistically have a widebody command there in 4/5 years at this rate. I'd wager that's more valuable than a 320 command.

But, it's a personal decision. I'm getting more money, it's a safer city for me to raise a family and from experience, my lifestyle better suits long haul.

I don't really think you can make a wrong decision here. It's a job. What's going to suit your personal life better? I don't wanna fly planes when I'm 65. And I won't be retiring early paying 50% tax in Europe.

Command is great, but it's not the golden goose. I'll sit in whatever seat they like if they pay me more.

[iggy]

...and recently married...

Can't believe wifey is letting you choose freely...

[rudestuff]

As a pilot divorce is inevitable. I don't think the first one even counts...

[Mr Good Cat]

As a pilot divorce is inevitable. I don't think the first one even counts...

That's why you have to make your first and only wife one who is cabin crew. So much less stress and total empathy from them on the job front. The only downside is that when there's a downturn or a pandemic you're both up s**t creek. And occasionally you may have to fly together of course :ouch:

[iggy]

That's why you have to make your first and only wife one who is cabin crew. So much less stress and total empathy from them on the job front. The only downside is that when there's a downturn or a pandemic you're both up s**t creek. And occasionally you may have to fly together of course :ouch:

Dude, I've lost the count of divorced pilot-cc couples that I know of...
Baaaaad advice!

[WrldWide]

Dude, I've lost the count of divorced pilot-cc couples that I know of...
Baaaaad advice!
25+ years with my cc wife:)

[BANANASBANANAS]

25+ years with my cc wife:)

19 years and counting with mine!

[Busdriver_1122]

As someone who has done exactly this, given up 320 command for RHS in EK, it's all a personal decision. At the end of the day, you're flying planes. Is there likely to be a covid situation in the next 3/4 years, hopefully not. You'll realistically have a widebody command there in 4/5 years at this rate. I'd wager that's more valuable than a 320 command.

But, it's a personal decision. I'm getting more money, it's a safer city for me to raise a family and from experience, my lifestyle better suits long haul.

I don't really think you can make a wrong decision here. It's a job. What's going to suit your personal life better? I don't wanna fly planes when I'm 65. And I won't be retiring early paying 50% tax in Europe.

Command is great, but it's not the golden goose. I'll sit in whatever seat they like if they pay me more.

Good Decision Bro.
I understand you were flying the 320 outside ME.
It completely makes sense for you to move as your family gets better benefits and they are safer AND you get paid better as well.

But in my case i am already in the ME. So if you understand all these things dont change for me if I move. Instead staying at my current airline makes me more money than EK in the long run.

Getting a Command in EK in 4-5 years? Please speak to some people there.

Lastly when it comes to Covid (or similar events). LCC’s flying the 320’s. Made good profit and ALL the Pilots who were let go, were called back!

But again as I said. If I was outside ME and got the Ofeer I would definitely come to EK.
Enjoy your time there

[iggy]

19 years and counting with mine!

Mr. BANANASBANANAS and Mr. WrldWide,

Do any of your wives have a sister? Splitting with my non-cc wife at the moment... :sad:

[Busdriver_1122]

Guys.
this Thread is not for discussing your married lives.
stick to the topic or please find the suitable thread.
Thanks

[iggy]

Guys.
this Thread is not for discussing your married lives.
stick to the topic or please find the suitable thread.
Thanks

Yes Sir!! :ok:

[AL-MEHDAR]

What the salary differences you are talking about if you flown 80 block hours? How many Flying days on average?

[Busdriver_1122]

What the salary differences you are talking about if you flown 80 block hours? How many Flying days on average?

Salary Difference in the short term is Good with EK.
But in the long term my current airline is wayyy better.
Flying hours almost same. (80-90).. alinger flights in EK. More turnarounds here.

[Australia2]

It’s been briefly raised . . . . . best estimate on time to command ar present with EK ?

Tks in advance, Oz2

[Aero_manoloman]

Salary Difference in the short term is Good with EK.
But in the long term my current airline is wayyy better.
Flying hours almost same. (80-90).. alinger flights in EK. More turnarounds here.

I was weeks away from command training when I decided to join Emirates but my decision was easy because of the conditions I had at that European LOCO carrier As a captain here I'd be making 2/3 of what I'll make as an FO in Emirates. The operation is a nightmare at times (4 sectors/day, 5 days back to back consistently) and I still don't get to live where I want to (42 years old and tired of commuting and paying rent in two European cities). So for me it was a no-brainer.

Are you considering just the salary for that calculation or are you including all the benefits? End of service/pension fund, insurances (health, loss of license), education, housing allowance, platinum card.
There's a document they send candidates that shows projected total rewards. I believe it's grossly exaggerated but it estimates total rewards to be around $16500 per month (F/O). Of course a big percentage of that is not take home money but you should consider that. Subtracting all the non-cash benefits it shows $9500/month take home money. I don't know how realistic that is as it includes profit share which is not guaranteed. If I were you I would just apply and decide later. Spend some time in Dubai and have a taste of the city. Maybe you or your family would hate it there and that'd be it.

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

Great advice, thanks

[papalovesjumbo]

I am in similar situation. I think I might go for it as I am single and without kids which is less risk in terms of family situation.

30Yo flying for pink ULCC in eastern Eu. No home base within the network and other LCC at home not any better. Overall my company is nice from personal experience but since I dont have home base I dont think I will stay indefinitely. Also, the town I grew up is irrelevant as home because my family is all around the world now and I am coming from different countries every time coming from holidays. I could try the pinky in ME and stay in the same company but the waiting list is long and dont get all the benefits you would with EK.

Regarding the upgrade. All the cons stated above are right today. But I see a positive trend in competition with the other ME Majors now Ria is lunching next year + A350s coming…(while 777X are really struggling to get certified) it seems to me 5/6 years to first command shot on bus fleet is actually possible. Even if it ends up 7/8 years, its not a deal breaker for me. Long term I want to go to save money while getting global flying experience.

I just applied now. Lets see what happens

cheers