FTEJerez expansion into the UK

[uncle dickie]

FTE have posted on LinkedIn that they are advertising for a CFI for a proposed UK operation.

An interesting move that they see the benefit of UK weather resulting in a more ‘rounded graduate’

[LandingGear60]

An interesting move that they see the benefit of UK weather resulting in a more ‘rounded graduate’

Is there a reference that they’ve said this? Or is that just your opinion?

[uncle dickie]

Is there a reference that they’ve said this? Or is that just your opinion?

As FTEJerez are already approved by the UK CAA to conduct courses in Jerez, then UK weather must be a consideration.
Finding suitably qualified instructors may also be a factor. No doubt a business feasibility study will have been conducted either to ‘go it alone’ or a joint venture with an existing training provider.
In Scotland both DND & PIK might be of interest..?

[VariablePitchP]

As FTEJerez are already approved by the UK CAA to conduct courses in Jerez, then UK weather must be a consideration.
Finding suitably qualified instructors may also be a factor. No doubt a business feasibility study will have been conducted either to ‘go it alone’ or a joint venture with an existing training provider.
In Scotland both DND & PIK might be of interest..?

:O

If you’ve made it up please just say, more helpful for people trying to make informed decisions

[uncle dickie]

:O

If you’ve made it up please just say, more helpful for people trying to make informed decisions

As previously stated FTEJerez are advertising for a UK CFI on LinkedIn
As the project is clearly at the genesis stage, pprune is a vehicle to discuss possible options?

[pcnut]

As FTEJerez are already approved by the UK CAA to conduct courses in Jerez, then UK weather must be a consideration.
Finding suitably qualified instructors may also be a factor. No doubt a business feasibility study will have been conducted either to ‘go it alone’ or a joint venture with an existing training provider.
In Scotland both DND & PIK might be of interest..?
Or - we could just look at the facts? Yes FTE is approved by the CAA but the UK IR familiarisation flights and skill test must be taken in UK airspace as per the regulations, nothing to do with weather, instructors or a more "rounded graduate". As FTE is already training for UK licences they must have an existing arrangement somewhere. In which case they wouldn't need a CFI as the existing ATO would already have one. More likely is that with the proposed BA cadets starting soon they feel the time is right to set up their own UK base - which will be an extremely expensive and relatively pointless way to go about it but it's their money to waste as they see fit.

[parkfell]

….the UK IR familiarisation flights and skill test must be taken in UK airspace as per the regulations…..

Unless the regulations have very recently changed, the UK CAA deployed an examiner to Jerez to conduct the initial UK IRST.
Those EASA Spanish students were tested by authorised FTEJerez staff examiners.

As FTEJerez have both EASA & UK CAA approvals no UK base exists or was necessary.

Discussing the merits of Spanish v. UK weather conditions are to some extent not an issue as the MCC/APS course provides various weather scenarios which more than makes up for a fair weather base.

[pcnut]

Unless the regulations have very recently changed, the UK CAA deployed an examiner to Jerez to conduct the initial UK IRST.
Those EASA Spanish students were tested by authorised FTEJerez staff examiners.

As FTEJerez have both EASA & UK CAA approvals no UK base exists or was necessary.

Discussing the merits of Spanish v. UK weather conditions are to some extent not an issue as the MCC/APS course provides various weather scenarios which more than makes up for a fair weather base.
The regulations have indeed changed. For EITHER a UK or EASA initial IR skill test, familiarisation flying and the test itself must be flown in the relevant airspace - EASA for an EASA IR, UK for UK IR.

[parkfell]

The regulations have indeed changed. For EITHER a UK or EASA initial IR skill test, familiarisation flying and the test itself must be flown in the relevant airspace - EASA for an EASA IR, UK for UK IR.

The regulations have in essence reverted back to those applying in 1999 (CAP509) when Aer Lingus students trained in the USA came to BAeFC Prestwick to complete the final few flights & test for CPL/IR issue.

Presumably the MPL route for UK issue is not affected by this issue.

[pcnut]

Only an initial IR ST so the MPL doesn't have the same requirements. EASA and UK now treat each other as third countries as far as the IR initial.

[Alex Whittingham]

For EITHER a UK or EASA initial IR skill test, familiarisation flying and the test itself must be flown in the relevant airspace - EASA for an EASA IR, UK for UK IR.
I think this only applies to ATOs approved out of theatre. For instance, a US-based ATO training for the EASA licence has to include famil flying and IR test in EASA airspace whereas an EASA-based ATO can conduct the test in non-EASA airspace if it wishes.
​​​​​​​

[pcnut]

I think this only applies to ATOs approved out of theatre. For instance, a US-based ATO training for the EASA licence has to include famil flying and IR test in EASA airspace whereas an EASA-based ATO can conduct the test in non-EASA airspace if it wishes.

I've never dealt with an EASA authority that allows any initial IR to be conducted outside EASA airspace, regardless of where the ATO Is based. Logically, an EASA based ATO wouldn't need to go elsewhere.
For reference, regarding third countries:
ORA.ATO.150 Training in third countries
When the ATO is approved to provide training for the instrument rating (IR) in third countries:
(a) the training programme shall include acclimatisation flying in one of the Member States before the IR skill test is taken; and
(b) the IR skill test shall be taken in one of the Member States.

​​​​​​​This is adopted in UK law with "member states" replaced by "UK".

[Alex Whittingham]

Thank you, that is the reg. The requirement to take the IR skill test in one of the member States only applies when the ATO is approved to provide training ... in third countries. Of course there's very little reason for any EASA-based ATO to conduct the test in non-EASA airspace but you could imagine it... maybe a Cypriot ATO testing a route into Beirut or similar?

[pcnut]

If you ask the authorities, they all say the IR must be flown in EASA airspace - even if you're based in a member state it's still compulsory.

[Opsdog]

FTE already send Their students studying for the the UK CPL IR - Frozen ATPL integrated course to a UK ATO to carry out the IR familiarisation training and IRST. With the imminent demise of Leading Edge (well let’s face it, how can they survive much longer?), and the uncertainty over L3, it makes perfect sense that a financially stable well established ATO explores expansion into the UK. At least their students will be better catered for than the charlatans previously mentioned!!

[Groundloop]

In Scotland both DND & PIK might be of interest..?

If the happened to choose PIK then they would be coming home to their orignal roots!!

I visited FTE when they were still BAe Flight Training in Jerez. It was in February and all the aircraft had frost on their wings. They had to wait until the sun melted it off as they had left all their de-icing equipment in Prestwick when they moved down to Jerez. They had not thought they would ever need it again!

[fly744]

FTE already send Their students studying for the the UK CPL IR - Frozen ATPL integrated course to a UK ATO to carry out the IR familiarisation training and IRST. With the imminent demise of Leading Edge (well let’s face it, how can they survive much longer?), and the uncertainty over L3, it makes perfect sense that a financially stable well established ATO explores expansion into the UK. At least their students will be better catered for than the charlatans previously mentioned!!

which UK ATO do they send their students to?

[HypoxicWaiter]

They send their students to Euro Flight Training.

[parkfell]

They send their students to Euro Flight Training.

Their latest set of accounts filed at Companies House doesn’t exactly fill you with confidence…