View Full Version : Extra 230 crash Oxfordshire 2/4/22
treadigraph
2nd Apr 2022, 17:41
Crashed into an empty block of flats at Upper Heyford after pilot bailed out, seems he may have been badly injured.
Thames Valley Police said it happened at about 12:00 BST on Saturday. The pilot has been taken to John Radcliffe Hospital, but the extent of his injuries is unknown.
"An eye witness described seeing the pilot parachuting down on to the roof of the old RAF base."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-60967351
Looks like G-MIIL.
Aft fuselage and tail paint scheme (have a look at https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1770638 ) and partial registration seems to corroborate FR24 data (yes I know, can't be trusted, etc, etc.)
Extremely lucky pilot, if you ask me. Looks like he was straight&level at about 2000 feet, and whatever (catastrophical) happened, it seems he was able to get out in time and use his chute. Wow!
Looong time did some gliding and always wonderd what the realistic minimum altitude would be in case of a catastrophic event (structural, midair, etc), giving the startle effect, unusal g-load & attitude, canopy ejection, strap release, etc.
Auxtank
2nd Apr 2022, 19:11
Think you're spot on with that ID DIBO.
Knowing that aircraft and the pilot something must have gone TWANG and very rapidly become un-recoverable.
Dare I say it; De-Wintersisation is so important.
You can't just jump in and go like it's last September.
It's a slow, steady process waking up the aircraft and getting her Flight Ready from her Winter Slumber.
DaveReidUK
2nd Apr 2022, 19:20
Looks like G-MIIL.
Yes - based at Bicester with Angels High, imported less than a year ago.
Auxtank
2nd Apr 2022, 19:41
What's your initial take on it Dave - In fact - what is it? it's so tiny.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x500/1770638_large_530bba874b83a3ac96a851af38c6711dbc7e852c.jpg
what is it? it's so tiny.Are you referring to the plane as a whole?? 'Cos, besides the tailwheel qualifiable as 'small', this Extra NG comes within 10%-ish smaller than a C172 with twice the horsepower... :)
treadigraph
2nd Apr 2022, 19:55
Looks like G-MIIL.
Aft fuselage and tail paint scheme (have a look at https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1770638 ) and partial registration seems to corroborate FR24 data (yes I know, can't be trusted, etc, etc.)
Extremely lucky pilot, if you ask me. Looks like he was straight&level at about 2000 feet, and whatever (catastrophical) happened, it seems he was able to get out in time and use his chute. Wow!
Looong time did some gliding and always wonderd what the realistic minimum altitude would be in case of a catastrophic event (structural, midair, etc), giving the startle effect, unusal g-load & attitude, canopy ejection, strap release, etc.
Rob Davies got out of a Mustang at Duxford at about 500' after it was disabled by a Skyraider a few years ago - he planned and practiced bailing out regularly and jettisoned the canopy seconds after the collision before trying to control the aircraft. The 'chute was made by Strong and was fully developed by maybe 150'.
was fully developed by maybe 150'.so a full 3 seconds to spare....
Was once in a near midair as close as one gets before hearing a loud noise, and ducking the head in one arm and slamming the stick forward with the other, I looked up again having lost half the height at somewhere about Vne. Can't tell how long that took, as most of the event is still recorded in memory in slow motion.... Do remember flying the right-hand circuit with the right leg shaking uncontrollably...
Rob Davies got out of a Mustang at Duxford at about 500' after it was disabled by a Skyraider a few years ago - he planned and practiced bailing out regularly and jettisoned the canopy seconds after the collision before trying to control the aircraft. The 'chute was made by Strong and was fully developed by maybe 150'.
I was reading about that in my MO's office before going in for my medical - and I failed the BP test. He had to lie me down on a cot for half an hour before it settled down so he could pass me. He laughed and said he would remove flying magazines form his waiting room!
mickjoebill
3rd Apr 2022, 03:01
Wings torn off but no fire. Does the craft have fuel cells or regular tanks?
Mjb
Extra NG, occupants would be wearing chutes for aeros.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1334/image_3931fe2dd36ba230f844437adab93bfe6e275c69.jpeg
DaveReidUK
3rd Apr 2022, 22:47
Extra NG, occupants would be wearing chutes for aeros.
In this case, the occupant (singular) was.
Does the UK require chutes for aerobatics as does the USA? Not the case here in Oz.
rusty sparrow
4th Apr 2022, 06:54
No, and there are some that don't wear them. I've flown an Extra 200 as my hour with an instructor and had the only parachute.
sycamore
4th Apr 2022, 11:35
I can only think of a few reasons to jump out of an aircraft if it wasn`t being `stunted and bunted` at the time;
loss of the prop which may take it out of the C of G envelope;may have broken engine mounts..
`Flutter` of the elevator/tailplane,although it looks like half the tailplane and both elevators are intact;
Massive fuel leak into the cockpit,assuming fuel tank is fwd of front seat..
And I`ve had experience of both the last two whilst testing for the PFA(as was)...
oxenos
4th Apr 2022, 12:13
The local plod (Thames Valley) were at one point reported as saying that the occupant was rescued from the wreckage. Three witnesses are reported as seeing the pilot bale out.
Looking at the wreckage I have to doubt the (alleged) police report.
Jhieminga
4th Apr 2022, 16:51
Isn't this a two-seater? Both reports could have been correct. Although a single occupant has been reported as well.
Nightstop
4th Apr 2022, 17:29
Any experts here on the seat harness arrangement in an Extra? I believe there are two separate lap straps with unlatch handles pointing in different directions, but I haven’t flown this type.
Any experts here on the seat harness arrangement in an Extra? I believe there are two separate lap straps with unlatch handles pointing in different directions, but I haven’t flown this type.
totally no expert here, but I understand this as single-point release (luckily), only closing in opposite directions
Standard equipment is a seven-point harness. The two lap belts with single-point release are attached to one harness padding. The lap belts are redundant for safety during aerobatic maneuvers. If one release is opened unintentionally, the second one guarantees full safety. For safe operation the releases are arranged in a way that one has to be closed to the right side, the other one to the left.
Must have been some kind of catastrophic event, approaching steadily, fairly S&L, with (forced) landing options all over the place, and then suddenly the split-second decision to bail out....probably with only seconds to spare.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1301x415/g_miil_af2d61370d4acca24a6dc712a7bdf42c3decd1a4.jpg
* FR24 - ADS-B based, but nevertheless interpret cautiously.
DaveReidUK
5th Apr 2022, 06:43
Isn't this a two-seater? Both reports could have been correct. Although a single occupant has been reported as well.
Thames Valley Police on Twitter: "🚨Thames Valley Police at the scene of a light aircraft crash🚨 The aircraft crashed into an unoccupied block of flats near Camp Road in Upper Heyford at about midday The pilot is in hospital but no-one else was injured Anyone with footage or info, call 101 quoting 857 (2/4) https://t.co/84UHFWRm2W" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/ThamesVP/status/1510235689388019714)
The pilot is in hospital but no-one else was injured
LOMCEVAK
5th Apr 2022, 10:50
I can only think of a few reasons to jump out of an aircraft if it wasn`t being `stunted and bunted` at the time;
loss of the prop which may take it out of the C of G envelope;may have broken engine mounts..
`Flutter` of the elevator/tailplane,although it looks like half the tailplane and both elevators are intact;
Massive fuel leak into the cockpit,assuming fuel tank is fwd of front seat..
And I`ve had experience of both the last two whilst testing for the PFA(as was)...
In general terms, and not specifically related to this accident, other potential reasons for abandoning an aircraft by parachute include jammed flight controls, disconnected flight controls, an onboard fire that will not extinguish, mid air collision, and for some types a failure to achieve correct landing gear lowering. Jammed flying controls due to a loose article is always high on my list of potential reasons.
Piltdown Man
11th Apr 2022, 08:50
@Lomcevak has very reasonably pointed out just some of the very good reasons to bail out. In hindsight they are obvious but the list is not exhaustive as I’m sure he would agree. What is true in every case is that if you have the good fortune of wearing a parachute you must also learn to how to get out. If you are carry a passenger you are obliged to brief them as well. May I suggest the following? Firstly, at less than 3,000 feet make your mind up to leave as quickly as possible. Secondly, after you have decided to jump unlatch the canopy and then undo your straps. You do not need the wait for the canopy to detach. Next, if you have control, push hard and you will be flung out else jump. Lastly, the moment you are out look for your D ring and with both hands pull hard. If you have the time (and steering) you may steer the parachute to a best possible landing and/or into wind. Then prepare for the impact. In this case I believe the Extra’s canopy shattered in flight. This resulted in the pilot being blinded by canopy shards. Not being able to see to perform a landing he very sensibly decided to bail out.
Nightstop
12th Apr 2022, 03:26
In this case I believe the Extra’s canopy shattered in flight. This resulted in the pilot being blinded by canopy shards.
That’s interesting, was it a birdstrike? I’ve never considered wearing eye protection in a canopied aircraft.
sycamore
12th Apr 2022, 19:15
Common sense,and a hard-hat and visor.....
megan
14th Apr 2022, 05:20
was it a birdstrike? I’ve never considered wearing eye protection in a canopied aircraft.Birdstrikes are one of those hazards that exist. S-76 crashed in the USA as a result of a bird coming through the windscreen with the loss of all on board. Pilot in a Cessna 172 had a birdstrike causing airframe damage and loss of control with fatal results. Our own S-76 operation had a birdstrike on the upper windscreen divider, bird went up into the main rotor where a blade slapped the bird down through the cabin roof onto the passengers laps. Best tale I read was a Bell 206 pilot rendered unconscious while night flying when a bird came through the windscreen, fortunately the aircraft was one of those rare examples fitted with an autopilot which was in control at the time, he woke up some time later to assume control.
treadigraph
23rd Feb 2024, 09:49
Canopy failure thought to be due to poor bonding with the frame:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65d61630188d77001103883c/Extra-NG_G-MIIL_04-24.pdf
ShyTorque
23rd Feb 2024, 11:03
That is an unusually thorough and comprehensive investigation for a light aircraft accident. Well done to the team responsible.
Conclusion for layman: Canopy not glued on proper, like.
FullWings
23rd Feb 2024, 11:43
Interesting note right at the end that the BFU (German AAIB) think the canopy not being locked properly was the cause of the accident. The fatigue cracking and subsequent shattering of the canopy seem to be well evidenced, though?
ShyTorque
23rd Feb 2024, 11:50
It is not impossible that the pilot unlatched it out of instinct prior to abandoning the airframe, bearing in mind that he wasn’t exactly sure what had occurred but knew he was hitting the silk.
Blackfriar
24th Feb 2024, 11:23
According to today's Daily Telegraph the pilot "ejected". Rolls eyes. No comments allowed on the article so unable to put the so-called journalist right. Surprised they didn't describe it as a jet.
treadigraph
24th Feb 2024, 11:44
Blackfriar yes, I was frustrated by the inability to comment! :}
Apparently Extra have issued a service bulletin to correct potential deficiencies in the bonding process.
212man
24th Feb 2024, 14:02
That is an unusually thorough and comprehensive investigation for a light aircraft accident. Well done to the team responsible.
Conclusion for layman: Canopy not glued on proper, like.
My guess is that there had been a significant risk of injuries/deaths on the ground, given it impacted a block of flats, so warranted a more thorough investigation.
blind pew
25th Feb 2024, 01:05
Had a canopy fall off a grob twin astir when being screamed at by the duty instructor at Worcester ZA to clear the runway asap.
On close inspection during its annual fetish the fool who carried it out had removed the hinge bolts, glued the hinges to the canopy with epoxy, added P38 then spray painted over it.
Turned out to be the duty dogs body who was a car dealer..stopped b@llocking me without admitting it was he but said it was a good job I hadn’t done any Aeros..which I had but only loops, chandels and the odd stall turn..now if I had attempted a slow roll maybe it would have been different as I’m crap at them.