C210 general flying procedures

[leocarp]

Hey everyone,

I'm doing some C210 flying and need some advice. I've heard the 210 is a rather slippery aircraft - just wanting to know some tips and tricks with regards to flying the 210. Also a specific question, when joining for midfield X-wind at a remote aerodrome/base/downwind, when should I aim to have the landing gear down/begin descent etc?

Thanks in advance!

[PiperCameron]

I'm doing some C210 flying and need some advice. I've heard the 210 is a rather slippery aircraft - just wanting to know some tips and tricks with regards to flying the 210. Also a specific question, when joining for midfield X-wind at a remote aerodrome/base/downwind, when should I aim to have the landing gear down/begin descent etc?

Before you land?

[compressor stall]

What model?

They have different speeds.

[leocarp]

Sorry forgot to mention, it'll be on the C210L, M or N model

[Bog Down]

It has been a while since I've been in the seat of a C210, but I imagine it would be something like this:

Descent: Bring MAP back from cruise power at a rate of 1" per minute to join the circuit at 18".

Circuit Join: 18" and cruise RPM setting.

Downwind (abeam landing runway threshold): 15" - Gear Down - Flaps 10.

Base: Same as DW but select flaps 20 about halfway through.

Final: Select flaps 30 and trend towards Vref over the fence.

Gear and Flaps speeds for each model are below.

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[Clare Prop]

You could always read the Pilots Operating Handbook

[leocarp]

You could always read the Pilots Operating Handbook
I've read through the 210L/M/N models which is helpful, however it doesn't tell you how to operate a 210 up in the top end. If someone could give me advice on operating a 210 or even a 206 (as I understand that they are pretty similar aircraft aside from the 210 being retractable), it would be much appreciated. Even better, if someone has the copy of the "how to be an arnhemland pilot" book or whatever it's called, could they please send me a message. Thanks!

[lucille]

You could always read the Pilots Operating Handbook

Indeed, but as you know every operator these days knows better how to operate a C210 than dear old Mr. Cessna. And in the grand old tradition of Aussie GA, every wheel was reinvented and there could never be enough layers of overcomplication.

In my day, we never saw the POH, it had long been pilfered. We were just pointed at the aircraft, did a couple of circuits, told to be gentle with the aircraft, treat it with utmost respect and that was it. And against all odds, no one died and in the two years I was tooling around the north, all engines all made their TBO.

My advice to the OP… don’t overthink it. Just treat the aeroplane gently and with respect. This rule applies to every type he/she will ever fly.

[Pinky the pilot]

Another lifetime ago when I was but a humble PPL I was checked out in a C210 (Thanks CB:ok:) and something very similar, if not indentical to the chart by Bog Down was placed in front of me with instructions to 'Read and inwardly digest!':=

'Nuff said.

Also, What Clare Prop said!

[the_rookie]

2" per 5nm I think was what we used to do (10 years ago). Don't overthink, very basic machine. They are slippery if you try and join base at full power, otherwise they are not

[Tommy Bahama]

Some of the best memories of my career involve flying the mighty tooten around the NT. The cadets will never understand what they missed out on.

I think Bog Down covered it pretty well. One thing though when you're fat, dumb and happy on finals and thinking eveyting is done. Double check the gears down.

[Bog Down]

Some of the best memories of my career involve flying the mighty tooten around the NT. The cadets will never understand what they missed out on.

I think Bog Down covered it pretty well. One thing though when you're fat, dumb and happy on finals and thinking eveyting is done. Double check the gears down.

Yep, as Tommy said on final do a final gear check using whatever method the company has in their SOPs. Most will get you to visually look down at both main wheels to confirm they're down and then use the little mirror on the RH wing to confirm the nosewheel is down.

C210 is not a hard or inherently slippery machine to fly.

Below is a pretty good write-up with some tips for operating the mighty IO-520/550 found in all C210s and older model C206s (the newer C206H models have the Lycoming, and I believe there's a few of them hanging around the top end).

Tips for Operating Big Bore Continentals
https://www.avweb.com/features_old/operating-tips-for-big-bore-continentals/

[bolthead]

Circuit join clean(retractable) and 15" used to work for me - 20" anything with a turbo.

[dejapoo]

You could always read the Pilots Operating Handbook

Be nice. We were all new once! You don’t know what you don’t know. We were all clueless when we started and we know the CPL course from CASA is a licence to kill.

Leo: be conservative mate. Stay away from storms and bumps. Pick a number say 20nm then double it. Go on the ATSB and read every C210 accident report and build it in to you operation. They were effing old when we all flew them… PM if I can help with any advice.

[Capt Fathom]

I don’t know why such a fuss is made of flying a C210?

I, like many others, have worked our way up through most of the Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft single and twins as part of our GA careers, but I don’t recall any of those aircraft being put up there on a pedestal like the C210 has!

What have I missed?

[Bog Down]

I don’t know why such a fuss is made of flying a C210?

I, like many others, have worked our way up through most of the Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft single and twins as part of our GA careers, but I don’t recall any of those aircraft being put up there on a pedestal like the C210 has!

What have I missed?

For many fresh CPL holders heading up north, it's likely the fastest and heaviest aeroplane they've flown. That combined with it being their first commercial job it's generally a steeper learning curve than transitioning from C310 to C402 for the same company.

[nomess]

I don’t know why such a fuss is made of flying a C210?

I, like many others, have worked our way up through most of the Cessna, Piper and Beechcraft single and twins as part of our GA careers, but I don’t recall any of those aircraft being put up there on a pedestal like the C210 has!

What have I missed?
Most CPL fresh ticket holders have not flown much outside of a 172 or Diamond. I am fairly sure under the current regs one needs to do a flight test in a CSU prop also, so perhaps they might have a few hours in a 182. Essentially they haven’t experienced much in the way of a heavier 6 cylinder.

Generally most employers will want someone with a few hours on a 200 series, talking NT or WA operations, they do state this in job advertisements. It is seen as an aircraft to ‘get ahead’ of the CPL job hunting queue and make oneself competitive.

I think it would wise to include the heavier 200 series aircraft as part of the hour building.

[zegnaangelo]

I really an intrigued now and want to fly this venerable C210.

Tell me though is the Cherokee 6 anything like a C210? Or is it chalk and cheese? I am so intrigued now!!!

[SOPS]

I've read through the 210L/M/N models which is helpful, however it doesn't tell you how to operate a 210 up in the top end. If someone could give me advice on operating a 210 or even a 206 (as I understand that they are pretty similar aircraft aside from the 210 being retractable), it would be much appreciated. Even better, if someone has the copy of the "how to be an arnhemland pilot" book or whatever it's called, could they please send me a message. Thanks!
It is NOT a 206 with retractable gear. It’s very different.

[Checkboard]

Cherokee 6 is very different to a C210. You sit IN Cherokee, you sit UP in a C210 - like a truck.

[phlegm]

Hey everyone,

I'm doing some C210 flying and need some advice. I've heard the 210 is a rather slippery aircraft - just wanting to know some tips and tricks with regards to flying the 210. Also a specific question, when joining for midfield X-wind at a remote aerodrome/base/downwind, when should I aim to have the landing gear down/begin descent etc?

Thanks in advance!
Hey mate, the biggest change is slowing down early enough as you join the circuit and configure to land, especially on the L with more restrictive flap and gear speeds.

Eg midfield crosswind join: descend early enough to have a brief level segment at circuit height to bleed off speed, joining midfield reduce power to 21" or so, one stage of flaps. Gear down abeam the threshold, power back to 15-17", flaps 20, descend on base, prop full fine, full flap on final unless very gusty, dummy checks. It's very easy to bust flap speeds on the L so watch your ASI. Fly your approach speeds accurately as you'll float if too fast and stop like a rock if too slow. You might need to fly a wider circuit than you're used to due to the speed.

Trim properly too. You have rudder trim, so you use it.

Also review your emergency procedures well. Expect to experience an alternator failure, a gear system failure, or both at some point.

[43Inches]

Tell me though is the Cherokee 6 anything like a C210? Or is it chalk and cheese? I am so intrigued now!!!

Cherokee six is more like an old Land Cruiser ute vs the C210 being a modern dual cab. The Land Cruiser being tough and able to take a shunt on the farm or mine site and shrug it off with a bent panel at worst, the modern dual cab 'trucks' losing wheels when they hit a curb too fast.

[Clare Prop]

Be nice. We were all new once! You don’t know what you don’t know. We were all clueless when we started and we know the CPL course from CASA is a licence to kill.

.

Seriously, there are no mysteries; but the amount of people who follow old wives tales rather than the POH is significant.

For example in cherokees, I get people turning off the electric fuel pump at 300' after take off "Because my instructor told me to". POH states "When reaching the desired cruising level the electric fuel pump may be turned off". Why would you turn off the redundancy system at the most critical time for a failure of the engine fuel pump??? BEcause it has been drummed into them by someone who has never read the POH.

In these days when POHs are readily available online there is absolutely no excuse for someone to be "clueless" when going into a new aircraft type.

[43Inches]

I agree with that, 30 years ago you'd have the Australian Flight manual on board with some torn pages from the AOM/POH scattered around, probably covered in mold and water damage. You had to buy your own copies if you wanted to have a POH copy that's readable. Now it's mandatory for it to be in the aircraft, so there's no real excuse not to read it.

[Lookleft]

What is interesting about this thread is that the OP has done, I assume, some sort of endorsement and the instructor has not passed on any worthwhile information about how to fly the 210. Is the system that broken that young CPL's are just pointed towards the plane and told go fly? Maybe I was just spoiled that when I was on that step of the ladder, there were sufficiently experienced pilots in GA who could pass on those nuggets of golden information.

[43Inches]

We always had the candidate do an engineering paper, as we called it, before someone moved onto a new type. It was designed so that they looked up key information, limitations, did some p-charts and load sheets, all before jumping in for an hour or two to make sure they could handle it. It forced the pilots to at least seek out the library copy of the POH/AFM and look through it, then the instructor would go through it with them and correct any errors. And it wasn't multiple choice, so they had to write out answers, which was much easier to see if they understood what they were reading.

[Clare Prop]

We always had the candidate do an engineering paper, as we called it, before someone moved onto a new type. It was designed so that they looked up key information, limitations, did some p-charts and load sheets, all before jumping in for an hour or two to make sure they could handle it. It forced the pilots to at least seek out the library copy of the POH/AFM and look through it, then the instructor would go through it with them and correct any errors. And it wasn't multiple choice, so they had to write out answers, which was much easier to see if they understood what they were reading.
We still do.
True that a lot of the myths and legends, including the "never fly over square" nonsense were from the days of the reinvented wheel AFMs which contained almost no actual information from Mr Piper, Cessna, Beech or Lycoming on how to operate the aircraft. Coming from overseas where we used the POH as a bible, to be told "Oh no we have a . better system here" and seeing what was used as an alternative was extraordinary! But there are still some remnants from those days, eg the so-called "Cessna performance chart" with the little boxes that offers no gross error checking, and is still in the PPL exam and text books, even though Cessnas use numerical tables is one example. It really is high time someone fixed the PPL exams and divided it into three or four separate exams. That's another rant for another day!

[mikewil]

Most CPL fresh ticket holders have not flown much outside of a 172 or Diamond. I am fairly sure under the current regs one needs to do a flight test in a CSU prop also, so perhaps they might have a few hours in a 182. Essentially they haven’t experienced much in the way of a heavier 6 cylinder.


Sadly you find that most have got their CPLs in the Diamond also, as long as it is the CSU version of it. There are also many who have got their CPL in the C172RG and find the C182 to be a bit of a handful to fly at first even with a CPL in hand.

[nomess]

Sadly you find that most have got their CPLs in the Diamond also, as long as it is the CSU version of it. There are also many who have got their CPL in the C172RG and find the C182 to be a bit of a handful to fly at first even with a CPL in hand.

Diamond time is useless to owner/operators up north. Trust me, just ask some certain owners what they think of the thing. You will get some colourful language.

Your second part of that comment is quite disturbing. That is another gripe some owners have, trying to find people that are competent in steam gauges, but multiple types. You walk in the door with 100 hours on a 182 or 200 series with steam gauges only, well you are likely going to get an interview. Buzzing around in a Diamond to 172RG around Melbourne or Sydney, is just like the other 200 resumes that landed on the desk.

[megan]

many who have got their CPL in the C172RG and find the C182 to be a bit of a handful to fly at firstWhat problems do they face mike?

The 182 VH-RHL was my first constant speed endorsement as a private pilot in 1965, coming from the 172, my previous mount, the 182 was just a 172 with an extra knob, oh, and cowl flaps.


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[mikewil]

What problems do they face mike?

The 182 VH-RHL was my first constant speed endorsement as a private pilot in 1965, coming from the 172, my previous mount, the 182 was just a 172 with an extra knob, oh, and cowl flaps.


I've found DA40 pilots (and even some 172 pilots) find the controls quite heavy and will land heavy or bounce after landing etc. Once again, personal observation and it usually takes most only 3-5 hours of circuits to sort out.

Some people can just go from one type to another with no issues and whilst the 182 is very simple and easy to fly, it does handle more like a 206 than a 172. I'd argue that the 172RG is the 172 with an extra knob and the 182 is a 206 with one less row.

[Stationair8]

Perhaps our resident Pprune Flight Safety C210 expert, VH-BCY could offer some insight into operating the mythical beast from Wichita!

[Global Aviator]

I’ve scared the sh*t out of myself in new types a few times so appreciate where this question comes from.

😳 30 years ago we had no ‘social media’ to rely on to ask questions, we asked our peers, expected training, however a lot of times we were just thrown the keys and we survived.

I guess the point of my comments are, enjoy the C210, don’t over complicate things it’s an aircraft. Where I used to work the C210 was the entry level (just like now), it was a check flight some ICUS and off ya go, we never lost anyone. Pity same can’t be said for some still current C210 operators.

Yes treat it with respect, but above all try to stay within your limits.

My guess is the biggest struggle you are going to find ain’t gunna be the might C210, more likely the owners of said beast!