Virgin 787 Window Shades Central Locking?

[Helol]

I like Virgin, and flew on their A350 down to JNB. I would very much like to continue flying with them, but it's putting me off that they use the 787 for that route,

I was lucky to pick the right time to fly on their A350, not sure why they don't use it anymore to JNB. Anyway, I have read several posts around the bazaars commenting that the window shades are centrally locked on overnight flights, and thus removing control from the pax.

I particularly enjoy the lightning displays mother nature puts on, over Africa during the night, when everyone else is either sleeping, or glued to the screen.

Is central locking a policy of Virgin? Guess I'll have to stick to BA if it is, which given their record with the A380 on that route leaves a lot to be desired (a game of delay or canx this past year)

[LOWI]

The cabin crew have full control over the windows on the 787.

The 787 dimming window usually has 5 settings:
1 = Clear
2 = Less Clear
3 = Halfway
4 = Less Dim
5 = Dim

From memory, they can using the CAP (cabin attendant panel) screen in each galley to:
1. Lock/Unlock all of them to clear, dim or any setting inbetween
3. Lock/Unlock any individual window
3. Set a range (for example; so people can only select clear or less clear)
4. Change any passenger window's current setting
5. Change all of the windows in different cabin zones

This feature was added by Boeing for a number of reasons:
1. Cabin Crew can dim/clear the windows automatically for takeoff and landing in hours of daylight/night time
2. Stop those selfish (not shellfish) pax who brightens their window during sunrise on a night flight when 99% of the plane are sleeping

Check out the photo on Flickr
www.flickr.com/photos/dcmetroblogger/10745645386

The downside to a 787 window is if it malfunctions, the cabin crew have a shade which attaches to the window and blocks out any light coming through. The other downside is with a traditional window, you can pull a shade down and have partial light coming through.

[tdracer]

Perhaps a simple request to a Flight Attendant, requesting that you be given control of your window shade so you can occasionally look outside?
Haven't flown a 787 (or Virgin) yet - although I'm scheduled to fly a Virgin 787 to LHR in a few months. But on other aircraft, I will occasionally pause the movie I'm watching to raise the shade for a quick glimpse outside to see what's going on (I'm seen some pretty spectacular sight out the window doing that in the past) - and I'd be seriously unhappy if I lost the ability to do that.

[PAXboy]

Don't get me started .... :mad: But you have.

I also have experienced this problem with VS 787. JNB is a regular port of call for me and I, too, like to see the African night and dawn. With conventional blinds, I pull a blanket over my head and cover the window, as I ease the blind up just enough. I put on my sunglasses to watch the dawn. I do not disturb anyone.

The clever boys and girls at VS don't trust me to do this so they lock all the windows. They then display a vile pink led 'sunrise' at the time they want us to wake up. Obviously the led light scheme was thought up by more clever marketing boys and girls in America. The CC say 'you can look through the porthole in the door'. Oh, really? Get up and walk to the door and peak through a tiny window every ten minutes? Great idea. As I have been travelling this route for 58 years, I think I know how to open a blind without disturbing other pax.

When they introduced the 350, we were promised it on the JNB run and the 787 would do CPT. Whenever we are travelling (and use VS) it's always the wretched 787. We are booked on them later this year for the simple reason that we have accrued a lot of points for the upgrade.

If I could, I would avoid the 787 and never travel on it again. I have found the aircraft utterly unremarkable in all aspects. Why folks say it is wonderful - I do not know. The higher cabin pressure has never made any difference to me. I can only presume that the reason we do not get the 350 as promised, is that Delta want the shiny capacity across the pond to feed their network. CPT is now southern summer only and a daylight return flight as it is a tourist route. VS has been pruned right back. I much prefer the 380 to JNB.

[tdracer]

PAXboy, have you bothered to ask them to unlock your window?

[Mr Mac]

Tdracer
Some CC from some carriers can be a little difficult in that matter I believe. Currently I have not had that issue, but I am sure I will come across this sooner rather than later.
However I generally stay away from Boeing 737 Max / 787 currently ,though flew on both in less 6 months recently. Airbus at the moment get my vote and I was a, if it ain’t going Boeing fan. If it ain’t Boeing I am not going was the chant back in the day.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Bug]

The lack of control over my ability to look out window on 787 is the reason I will not fly on that aircraft.
I am perfectly willing to obey a cabin crew request for me to close my window shade if it is an annoyance.

[PAXboy]

I have had two round trips LHR-JNB on the 787. Both crews have said that it could not be done. I am always polite to CC. I recall one of the crew saying that - if I held the button down long enoug, it would override the lock. Nonsense.

The first of the trips was in PE and the second in UC - but no can do. I have managed to avoid the 787 on all other carriers. If it was not for the points, we would not be using it. But, as far as I could research, the rotations that we wanted out and back - were all 787.

[DaveReidUK]

I have had two round trips LHR-JNB on the 787. Both crews have said that it could not be done.

Probably stuck on the dim setting.

The cabin crew, I mean, not the windows ...

[LOWI]

Probably stuck on the dim setting.

The cabin crew, I mean, not the windows ...

You do make me laugh Mr Reid!

Sometimes the cabin crew will treat pax as an idiot and lie to them about what can and cannot be done. For sure the 787 window lock is something they regularly control and lie about.

I have even been on a flight where a passenger's window was going from dim to bright to dim on several occasions. I suspect a cabin crew member was playing tricks on her window as she was his friend.

[BRUpax]

My only 787 night flights were with Qatar. They automatically dimmed the windows but I was able to override it if I wanted to. I don't know if it made any difference but it was in Business Class.

I do not like window blinds down during daytime flights with the exception of those facing the sun.

I know a friend who is claustrophobic. She likes to sit by a window and be free to look out when she feels the need to. She won't keep it wide open but she needs control of the blind to peak out now and again. The Virgin Atlantic policy on the B787 would freak her out.

People who prefer darkness should simply wear sleep masks and not expect all fellow passengers to have to conform with their wish to travel in the dark in the middle of the day.

It should be made unlawful for airlines to control window blinds with the exception of take-off and landing.

[togsdragracing]

Guess I'll have to stick to BA if it is, which given their record with the A380 on that route leaves a lot to be desired (a game of delay or canx this past year)

Last time I was on a BA A380, Club World from SFO to LHR, pretty much as soon as we had had dinner the cabin crew came along the aisles leaning over the seats and snapping the window blinds shut in such an authoritative manner that I was afraid to open mine again, despite the fact that I had chosen a window seat for a reason.

[Kiltrash]

DRUK you owe
​​​​half a pint of London Pride....
However why cant the powers that be not have windows at all but stream a outside view from 4 cameras showing the current view from all quarters onto the IFE. So if you want / need to look outside, even from the middle of
the cabin you can??

[Piper.Classique]

DRUK you owe
​​​​half a pint of London Pride....
However why cant the powers that be not have windows at all but stream a outside view from 4 cameras showing the current view from all quarters onto the IFE. So if you want / need to look outside, even from the middle of
the cabin you can??
Well, I do like a window, but some airlines do give everyone an outside view camera or four.

[PAXboy]

Some designers have proposed walls of screens. I suspect they might be heavier than the current layout, even allowing for the changes not to have windows.

Given the regularity of IFE systems failing, I'm not sure it would prove a happy alternative.

[Helol]

My only 787 night flights were with Qatar. They automatically dimmed the windows but I was able to override it if I wanted to. I don't know if it made any difference but it was in Business Class.I do not like window blinds down during daytime flights with the exception of those facing the sun.
I know a friend who is claustrophobic. She likes to sit by a window and be free to look out when she feels the need to. She won't keep it wide open but she needs control of the blind to peak out now and again. The Virgin Atlantic policy on the B787 would freak her out...It should be made unlawful for airlines to control window blinds with the exception of take-off and landing.

100% agree

Thanks everyone. BA it is then. I remember flying with BA back in Nov 18 on their 787 down to JNB, I was on one of their first flights using that type, but I think they soon stopped with the 787 to JNB. Anway, they didn't dim the windows.

I don't quite understand all the positive comments ref the 787. Personally I think it feels a bit 'small' for a longhaul of 10+ hours, but that's just me.

I guess the powers that be who decided on the artificial colours imitating a sunrise, think it's better than the real thing. Hey folks, no more turning your head to look out of the window, that's progress! It's similar to an advert of a few years ago - a cat near/on a fishing boat, full of fresh fish, but oh no, the cat had to be fed on artificial food, because it's better than the natural diet of fish, they told me it was better.

I genuinely don't understand the seemingly utter lack of interest of many pax, in viewing the real world occasionally. It still continues to fascinate me, hence why I'm daft enough to pay for a window seat, but perhaps those days are coming to an end.

I predict we'll all be flying in a windowless tube soon.

Anyway,iIt's a damn shame they don't use the A350, as I would definitely use Virgin for my trips to JNB.

[Hartington]

BA crews have snapped blinds down on me on a couple of occasions. I immediately snap them up again. Never had any backlash.

[Helol]

BA crews have snapped blinds down on me on a couple of occasions. I immediately snap them up again. Never had any backlash.

BA crew did the same to me, not long after take off from JNB-LHR, stating that 'Keep the shade down, it will be daylight soon'. Riiiiight..ok. :rolleyes: :oh:

?

[Bug]

BA crew did the same to me, not long after take off from JNB-LHR, stating that 'Keep the shade down, it will be daylight soon'. Riiiiight..ok. :rolleyes: :oh:

?
Nice and easy for cc if pax asleep.

[ZFT]

Just got off a TG 787
Took of at 1150, 15 mins later, windows dimmed and remained so until 10 mins before landing.
Most annoying.

[LOWI]

Just got off a TG 787
Took of at 1150, 15 mins later, windows dimmed and remained so until 10 mins before landing.
Most annoying.

You need to submit a complaint to the airline.
I would ask them to either take action or give you some sort of compensation.

My dear friend works on the 787 (a different airline) and she tells me in her manual it states that the windows must be left alone so pax can control them (except for takeoff and landing of course).

Are cabin crew really this controlling on the 787 over the windows?

Working up the pointy end, I really do admire and respect the cabin crew I fly with for what they have to put up with and of course the huge amount of training they have to do. In my opinion they aren't paid enough (but then again, what profession is?)

[ZFT]

You need to submit a complaint to the airline.
I would ask them to either take action or give you some sort of compensation.

Really!

[LOWI]

Yes, really.

Some passengers pay for the window seat especially... and by having the window locked to dim and not being able to look out the window ruins the experience altogether.

[MAC 40612]

The cabin crew have full control over the windows on the 787.

The 787 dimming window usually has 5 settings:
1 = Clear
2 = Less Clear
3 = Halfway
4 = Less Dim
5 = Dim

From memory, they can using the CAP (cabin attendant panel) screen in each galley to:
1. Lock/Unlock all of them to clear, dim or any setting inbetween
3. Lock/Unlock any individual window
3. Set a range (for example; so people can only select clear or less clear)
4. Change any passenger window's current setting
5. Change all of the windows in different cabin zones

This feature was added by Boeing for a number of reasons:
1. Cabin Crew can dim/clear the windows automatically for takeoff and landing in hours of daylight/night time
2. Stop those selfish (not shellfish) pax who brightens their window during sunrise on a night flight when 99% of the plane are sleeping

Check out the photo on Flickr
www.flickr.com/photos/dcmetroblogger/10745645386

The downside to a 787 window is if it malfunctions, the cabin crew have a shade which attaches to the window and blocks out any light coming through. The other downside is with a traditional window, you can pull a shade down and have partial light coming through.


I'm pretty sure the listing of controls above is not entirely correct. Cabin Crew have control over zones [as in the flickr image in the link] but not individual windows, so it is not possible to just unlock an individual window in a zone. From an engineering perspective I find these windows a completely unnecessary 'gadget' on the aircraft and another thing to go wrong [and they do go wrong] often failing with an uncontrollable 'yellow hue' when they fail. They are both expensive and time consuming to replace as well as being heavier, whereas the old style manual pull-down blinds on Boeing aircraft, could be replaced in a very quick time and being just a plastic assembly were both light and cheap.

[wub]

I loathe flying 787s because of the window shade. QR and BA do it and it is so annoying. This was my view all the way from Doha to Edinburgh, bar the last 15 minutes

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/638x850/qrw_bac74f7ce7b44430d1078acf092915decb8f25ba.jpg

[PAXboy]

wub Thanks for the warning to avoid BS 787s too, Really nasty non-view.

[Squawk 6042]

I’ve not flown the 787 recently, but agree with other posters here about the desirability to enjoy the view. I always arrange a window seat away from the sun depending on route and time of day. I suspect we may be a somewhat select subset of passengers.

Last flew on the 787 about 8 years ago, when in short order I flew Qatar Airways, UK – Doha and return, Oman Air, UK – Muscat – Bangkok and return and KLM somewhere (?!) with no problems controlling the window at any flight stage – things may well have changed since then.

[Load Toad]

I don't want to keep all the cabin awake, but if I've paid for my seat (& extra nowadays to get a window seat of my choice), then for god's sake, please let me enjoy the view out of the window! Which I've paid for as much as Pax X paid for the aisle seat or Pax Y who likes watching cartoons on the IFE...

[Helol]

I don't want to keep all the cabin awake, but if I've paid for my seat (& extra nowadays to get a window seat of my choice), then for god's sake, please let me enjoy the view out of the window! Which I've paid for as much as Pax X paid for the aisle seat or Pax Y who likes watching cartoons on the IFE...

Exactly. I too pay ridiculous amounts for a window seat (ok, because I travel solo, so don't want to be 'stuck in the middle'...). I get tired of this argument that 'you'll keep everyone awake, with the shade open' I don't think anyone is suggesting having the shade fully or even half open and flooding light into the cabin' But the fact the choice has been taken away is my issue. At least BA didn't do that on their 787 the one and only time I flew it with them (don't know if they do now).

I don't mind if the cabin crew change the settings so that the brightest levels are not an option for the pax, but at least keep the lower settings available; that's an acceptable compromise, but no-one seems to compromise anymore. It's either/or - from one extreme to the other.

I was reading a thread on Reddit and so many people were pissed off because, as I understand it, in the States, UA close the shades even on day time flights! Mark my words, it will be windowless tubes in no time.

What happened to curiosity and admiring the natural world once in a while...

Question: Would the airlines, as the customer, have had to agree with this option on the 787?

[DaveReidUK]

Question: Would the airlines, as the customer, have had to agree with this option on the 787?

I very much doubt that the window controls differ on any airline's 787s.

[El Grifo]

Being a dyed in the wool "looker out of the window" kind of guy, I was a bit confused on my last 787 Transatlantic.
Over Greenland, my window kept dimming.
Seemed like every time I looked away this happened.
I turned up the brightness so to speak and within a couple of minutes a hand appeared from the seat behind and dimmed it again.

Apparently the Didums behind wanted to sleep and the light was puting him off.
I contested him and he got really nasty.
Amongst other things, he claimed part ownership of the said window.
I did something I never do, as I hate it being done to me, I whacked my seat to the max recline and took 100% of ownership !

In fairness, as soon as we were over water, I dimmed it again for Didums :-)