SY tower to be upgraded

[AnotherFSO]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2024/02/sydney-air-traffic-control-tower-to-receive-life-extending-overhaul/

SNIPPET: Airservices Australia will upgrade the air traffic control tower at Sydney Airport, extending its longevity.The overhaul is not expected to cause any disruption to ATC services, and will involve life extension on the tower’s infrastructure as well as upgrading internal facilities into a “modern workspace”, Airservices says.

Works will include upgrades to power and water supplies; refurbishments to the cabin, stand-down rooms and breakout rooms; new ground-floor meeting rooms; and replacement of structural elements such as roofing and cladding.

[ER_BN]

So had the journalist done their job and not be just a noticeboard for Airservices press releases what the article did’nt say was what ATC automation system will be utilised in the TWR.

This is the big question ….In 2007 (yes 17 years ago) AsA signed a multi hundred million dollar project to upgrade the TWR TAAATS Eurocat system to the INTAS system. One would have thought SY TWR would have benefitted from this system???? What, we forgot SY TWR…. :)

Strangely the busiest and most complex TWR in Australia was never upgraded … Lots of ironies after yesterday’s debacle.

Anyone know the answer..???

[AmarokGTI]

https://australianaviation.com.au/2024/02/sydney-air-traffic-control-tower-to-receive-life-extending-overhaul/

SNIPPET: The overhaul is not expected to cause any disruption to ATC services.

Do they mean in the same way staff shortages don't disrupt services?

[Colonel_Klink]

Do they mean in the same way staff shortages don't disrupt services?

Just a few more operational requirements in the NOTAMS 🙄

[missy]

So had the journalist done their job and not be just a noticeboard for Airservices press releases what the article did’nt say was what ATC automation system will be utilised in the TWR.

This is the big question ….In 2007 (yes 17 years ago) AsA signed a multi hundred million dollar project to upgrade the TWR TAAATS Eurocat system to the INTAS system. One would have thought SY TWR would have benefitted from this system???? What, we forgot SY TWR…. :)

Strangely the busiest and most complex TWR in Australia was never upgraded … Lots of ironies after yesterday’s debacle.

Anyone know the answer..???
Two words. Special case.

Sydney Tower weren't in Airport Services, then they were, then no-one was. Talk of a new Tower, talk of a new Qantas hangar blocking sight lines, talk of the equipment not fitting, talk of there being insufficient space in the cable ducts, talk of a digital tower. If anyone thinks a transition to a new system will be transparent to Industry then I have a bridge to sell you.

Very disappointing that Australian Aviation did an advertorial for AsA, nicely timed to deflect attention from Senate Estimates. Didn't work.

PS Sydney Tower barely has sufficient staff to work the current roster let alone develop INTAS procedures, system optimisation and train the ATCs. Half the roster is one term transfers from somewhere else and at some point will be "return to sender".

[ER_BN]

ROTFALMAO! Been doing it a lot this week.

How could I possibly forget, Missy!

YSSY a special place for a special case..(maybe the wrong way round :))

A special case for the YSSY salary bonus! A special case for the YSSY controller egos…

A special case for new technology! Or obsolescent as evidence suggests, I mean what would the ONESKY program manager know?

Shirley, we would not have chosen a system (INTAS) that worked everywhere else but not YSSY?

Shirley NOT! Should have trained SY TWR controllers during COVID when we were paying controllers to sit on their collective arses doing nothing…

Even a digital TWR needs an automation system, don’t think we would keep the TAAATS Eurocat Flight Data Processors going to get paper strips in SY TWR.

I mean it would not fit in with the decor, darling!

So delicious!

[hiltonbaby]

Intas as it exists doesn't bloody fit hence suggestions of Mark 2 from a different supplier....maybe. Staff were to be increased to 47 to cover training and they didnt even get close. As far as 80 ATC coming to ASA, I'll borrow that bridge off Missy as we can sell it many many times. Worry less about the refurb and more about getting the mould out.

[hiltonbaby]

And BTW the upgrade is more about amenities than operational equipment. The tower is a rusted leaking mouldy peice of..... that went many years with bugger all structural maintenance.

[missy]

And BTW the upgrade is more about amenities than operational equipment. The tower is a rusted leaking mouldy peice of..... that went many years with bugger all structural maintenance.
Oh, so it's an ADMIN Mod. Best place that in the 21 day ADMIN folder.
Perhaps Black Mould Matters.

[Geoff Fairless]

Missy and others have got it all correct.

I did safety cases for the proposed Qantas hanger and also for a new tower to be built east of the current one. The argument about re-equipping the TWR Cab was always about it already having a peripheral console, which precluded the methodology used on all the other conversions.

Later, as a CASA inspector, myself and another inspector had a look at the old tower to see if it could be brought back into operation during the curfew to allow conversion works on the current tower. As I recall, that was not the problem because it is kept semi-operational as part of the contingency plan. There were, however, issues over converting back to the current tower before 5 am and the risk that part of the old equipment would not be able to be used, so limiting the airports movements, etc, etc. I think Airservices decided to put everything on the back burner.

I would be interested to learn what they have decided to do as a refurbishment.

[ER_BN]

So no one knows the answer?

Amazing how pilots know so much about their aircraft and controllers know so little about their systems…

[Done and done]

So no one knows the answer?

Amazing how pilots know so much about their aircraft and controllers know so little about their systems…

Excellent observation ER_
I'm trying really hard to not mention ASA ongoing training (CBT)...damn it, it slipped out....what a sh!+$h0w

[ER_BN]

Hiltonbaby

I am aware there are some workplaces in Australia without black mould.

For instance the AWB in Canberra. Clearly it shows the nasty combination of contempt and envy that the AsA Board and Management has for SY TWR controllers by allowing the building to get into so bad a state. Maybe the OHS budget was used to pay the Special Case YSSY controller allowance. These people (unlike controllers) are scared of making decisions because they clearly are incompetent in doing so. So the can just gets kicked down the road…17 years and counting

So it would appear when INTAS was purchased there were just a couple of minor problems for the busiest TWR in the country, i.e. it would not fit and it was supposedly operationally unsuitable?

The benefits of a TWR automation system were never clearly identified. The CEO at the time when asked could NOT identify how the system would process more aircraft, reduce the number of ATCs or even make the TWR environment safer.

Perhaps a virtual TWR with virtual screens with controllers all wearing the new Apple Vision Pro virtual headsets might work. No problem fitting them all in. I’ve seen video of Tesla cars on “autopilot” with drivers wearing these headsets so it must be safe? Lived Reality apparently …bound to work.

Alternatively we could employ a sufficient number of humans, equip them with Zeiss binoculars, give them pen, paper and a radio and position them in a high place with good visibility. Don’t know why anyone hasn’t thought of it before?

You can empathise why I asked the original question

Sigh!

[missy]

Clearly it shows the nasty combination of contempt and envy that the AsA Board and Management has for SY TWR controllers by allowing the building to get into so bad a state.
Sigh!
Utter contempt.

Incompetent management.

Save a $1 to spend $2.

Bigger sigh!

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Meeting rooms. Number 1 priority for any management.

[ResumeOwnNav]

Does the upgrade include D-ATIS?

[DROPS]

I wish you hadn't suggested the VR goggles. Someone in AWB is now going..... Hey!!!

[DROPS]

....oh, and some new smoke detectors

[I wish]

At least there won't be these problems at WSI, there is no tower being built.