OzRunways bought by Boeing

[KRviator]

Just got an email from the OzR team saying that Boeing has purchased the company... TBH, I'm not sure how I feel about that given Boeing's recent and not-so-recent corporate direction and fear they may try to force their global-multinational mindset on the OzR team and take them away from what I've always imagined them to be, a small Aussie team who saw a need and filled it well.

Many years back, I couldn't get OzR to email the plan to my Dynon, and after a bit of back-and-forth, they worked out it was a tiny piece of code added to OzR that meant it didn't work with my antique iPad2. Code got tweaked in the next update and I've been seamlessly syncing my flightplans ever since and remained committed to their app because of that interaction - even if I do use Samsung for everything else in life - I hope that level of care and attention to their customers doesn't suffer with the new owners.
A Boeing Company

Continuing its focus to support pilots around the world with powerful and innovative applications, Boeing today announced it has acquired OzRunways. With this, OzRunways becomes part of the ForeFlight family.

“OzRunways and ForeFlight have a common culture of innovation – creating software with a focus on intuitive, pilot-centric design.
Now we are excited to join the ForeFlight team and collaborate on bringing even greater capabilities to pilots all over the globe.”

EDIT: Fixed title.

[PiperCameron]

Sounds to me like Boeing/Foreflight, having almost totally conquered the North American market (with only a few scraps of opposition remaining), are turning their big guns/$$$ on the Australia/NZ one. It's nice to hear they're serious. In a win/win for both companies it's like-it-or-not, here we come!! :}

As a recent convert to Avplan, I'd be interested to hear what Bevan makes of this announcement.

[mcoates]

I think it is worthwhile recognition of what the OzRunways team have developed over the past 20 something years. EDIT: (Sorry since 2011)

[megle2]

Congratulations to OzRunways, creating and building a startup is very challenging, time for some cream

[PiperCameron]

"The OzRunways apps you know and love will continue to be developed and run by our team based right here in Australia and New Zealand. There will be no immediate changes or interruptions to your existing subscription."

Presumably that means Foreflight won't be sold in Oz after all and they'll focus on Ozrunways development instead?

[Jenna Talia]

Presumably that means Foreflight won't be sold in Oz after all and they'll focus on Ozrunways development instead?

The only thing that Boeing will be focused on is raising the subscription price, just like they did when they acquired Foreflight followed by Jeppesen then integrated Jepp into Foreflight, forcing Jepp customers to purchase an expensive Foreflight subscription.

[nomess]

They will raise the price considerably and claim they have added ‘a few new features’ to it to make it sound all rosy.

Foreflight subscriptions are about 20-30% more expensive vs OzRunways, so price hikes are a given, regardless of the currency being positive to that side.

I’d be renewing or subscribing to OzRunways as soon as possible before that occurs.

[Head..er..wind]

Or better still, support the Australian one; AvPlan

[Hoosten]

Boeing, Foreflight, Garmin and Textron, using market dominance to rape their captive subjects :ok:

[PiperCameron]

They will raise the price considerably and claim they have added ‘a few new features’ to it to make it sound all rosy.

Foreflight subscriptions are about 20-30% more expensive vs OzRunways, so price hikes are a given, regardless of the currency being positive to that side.

If they do that, they'll lose their existing Ozrunways customer base to Avplan.

Oh, wait.. they already are!! :cool:

[Squawk7700]

If they do that, they'll lose their existing Ozrunways customer base to Avplan.

Oh, wait.. they already are!! :cool:

Do you have any evidence to back that statement?

[PiperCameron]

Do you have any evidence to back that statement?

Yeah.. me. And having showed a few of the guys around here what Avplan can do that Ozrunways can't (eg. glide range ring, loads more traffic displayed) I'm sure I'm not the only one. :E

(Refer post #2 in this thread)

[Squawk7700]

Yeah.. me. And having showed a few of the guys around here what Avplan can do that Ozrunways can't (eg. glide range ring, loads more traffic displayed) I'm sure I'm not the only one. :E

(Refer post #2 in this thread)

Ok, so I’ll take that as a no.

[Head..er..wind]

Ok, so I’ll take that as a no.

Petulance 101. You asked a question, and it was answered. As usual you can’t accept that you might not be correct.

[Fred Gassit]

While I don't want to gloat as I quite like Oz runways, our company is going to Avplan for the reasons listed above.
If Boeings acquisition of Ozrwys gos as smoothly as their Aviall purchase did, its hard to see any upside for the consumer.

[Bug]

I tried AVPLAN in past but gave up as not as user friendly as OzR.
However I would like to try AVPLAN again if Bevan or someone can point to some improvement in usability, or some good education material.
This OzR change in ownership would seem to be Bevan's golden opportunity. Hope he grasps it by addressing the negatives of AVPLAN whilst retaining the positives.
I am keen to support local business, but AVPLAN needs to improve compared to my last try some years ago.

[Squawk7700]

Petulance 101. You asked a question, and it was answered. As usual you can’t accept that you might not be correct.

Not at all thanks.

When someone publicly states that a company are losing their customer base to another vendor and the related data set is “one single user,” the statistics don’t really back up the throw-away line that was quoted.

I don’t need to agree either way, it’s not of interest to me, but what is interesting is people making bold statements with no data.

It’s like saying “all the doors are falling off the 737 max.”

[zegnaangelo]

If it's a Boeing, I ain't going.

[Hoosten]

So, when Boeing or whoever hike the subscription price, and they will, will Bevan666 hike his price to just under Boeing's? Bet he does. There's loyalty to your customers, and then there's not. Ozrunways have 'licked' their lips. Avplan are licking.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Jeppesen was good when the local operation was run by Geoff Brown, but the price rises are bit over the top these days.

[Gne]

Jeppesen was good when the local operation was run by Geoff Brown, but the price rises are bit over the top these days.
Agreed, although my dealings with Geoff were not as a subscriber but as a consultant looking to clarify data and ensure regulatory compliance. Businesses, like Jeppesen, developed stellar reputations on the back of supplying a quality product over an extended period; however, over time, quality and integrity have been sacrificed in the pursuit of profit. These are a result a policy shift at Board level.

Our industry cannot afford to rely on the whims of a Board to ensure the effective implementation of safety obligations; therefore, in the absence of an effective regulator industry requires access to an alternative supplier that can at a minimum keep the main player ‘honest.'

Gne

[glen beard]

Good luck to all who use Ozrunways after Boeing"s purchase.They have effectively stuffed every company they have bought.Aviall WAS one of the best suppliers of G.A. parts and products.Boeing's bunch of clowns turned it into the most inefficient,non-user friendly companies in the world of aviation.I dealt with them from the old days when it was called Van Dusen (40+ years ago).Their prices were reasonable,but the most important thing was availability,which is what keeps you flying,which obviously is the name of the game.They obviously entered the G.A. market using the wrong staff who had little or no product knowledge of what they were selling.I used to phone or walk into their Jandakot facility and,10 minutes later,walk out with my requirements.Now the availabilty is ex USA on most popular items.A few years ago they didn't even have a Baron main wheel tyre in Australia and none on order!!!! That was only one of hundreds of commonly used parts that are no longer stocked in Australia.
They have also made it fairly clear that they don't want "small" clientele.
If you don't have an account your effectively stuffed.They won't accept cash but if you have a cash account you can use your card,with one little catch - minimum cash sale is/was $250.So if an owner walks in to grab a spray pack of flat black to tidy his prop up,its going to cost $250 + gst.Now thats what I call SERVICE!!!!!
Thank God I retired after 50 odd years selling parts because I no longer could tolerate todays lack of service in most fields of commerce.I have a philosophy that the higher the ISO rating,the worst the service.
Good luck to anyone entering general aviation it sure has changed since the 70's.

[Squawk7700]

2. Increased traffic display (nearly nearly everyone is using it these days!), and



You REALLY need to purchase a SkyEcho if you are valuing the traffic availability in your EFB. This goes for both of the products.

The traffic display is ONLY as good as your 3G/4G/5G connection, regardless of the product you are using.

A SkyEcho will show a real-time ADSB-in feed of your local area, regardless of cellular signal. Of course, it will also do ADSB-out for other SkyEcho users if you don't have a fixed transponder in your aircraft.

The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out (and IN) the better.

[PiperCameron]

I tried AVPLAN in past but gave up as not as user friendly as OzR.
However I would like to try AVPLAN again if Bevan or someone can point to some improvement in usability, or some good education material.
This OzR change in ownership would seem to be Bevan's golden opportunity. Hope he grasps it by addressing the negatives of AVPLAN whilst retaining the positives.
I am keen to support local business, but AVPLAN needs to improve compared to my last try some years ago.

Certainly Avplan isn't as user-friendly (they've a ways to go there yet) and I'm still working a few things with their support team myself, but If it helps at all, there were three things that won me over:
1. Glide range indication ring (like the one in Foreflight),
2. Significantly increased traffic display (nearly nearly everyone is using it these days!), and
3. By far the most important for marital harmony... the missus gets an automated SMS every time I takeoff and (safely, presumably) land!!

Maybe have another go (30-day free trial).. and see what you think.

[Clinton McKenzie]

You REALLY need to purchase a SkyEcho if you are valuing the traffic availability in your EFB. This goes for both of the products.

The traffic display is ONLY as good as your 3G/4G/5G connection, regardless of the product you are using.

A SkyEcho will show a real-time ADSB-in feed of your local area, regardless of cellular signal. Of course, it will also do ADSB-out for other SkyEcho users if you don't have a fixed transponder in your aircraft.

The sooner everyone gets ADSB-out (and IN) the better.I have SkyEcho and connect it to my EFB.

You know what its biggest flaw is?

All the ‘nuisance’ traffic that’s displayed. That’s the traffic that’s in the flight levels. It’s distracting from what could be actual threats to me.

The equivalent flaw is ‘reversed’ for aircraft at very low heights and low speeds. That flaw is why the two helicopters involved in the SeaWorld tragedy would most likely not have been alerted to their impending collision by on-board ADSB IN systems.

In short, ADSB – IN is not a panacea for mid-air collisions.

[Squawk7700]

Give that feedback to your EFB provider.

The sooner they add in user based altitude filters for ADSB traffic the better. Throw in some audible alerts too for good measure.

[BronteExperimental]

Give that feedback to your EFB provider.

The sooner they add in user based altitude filters for ADSB traffic the better. Throw in some audible alerts too for good measure.

All of that is standard functionality for ADSB IN/OUT CDTIs. Has been for a decade.

Traffic on EFBs is a very poor substitute for actual ADSB IN integrated into your avionics. It’s actually bordering on useless for collision avoidance. It’s adequate for situational awareness.
nobody is staring at their EFB in a busy terminal environment.

we’ve already done this to death in the sea world thread.

ADSB IN/OUT is absolutely fit for purpose - if installed, configured and used as it’s designed. Is it perfect? Of course not.

The problem is that maybe 2% of the fleet in Australia satisfies that criteria and maybe 5% of pilots have used it. That’s the issue.

[PiperCameron]

You REALLY need to purchase a SkyEcho if you are valuing the traffic availability in your EFB. This goes for both of the products.

Squawk, although I've posted many times on this forum that there is NO substitute for a good lookout (including ADS-B in), what I was referring to above was a side-by-side comparison of the two products in question.

Although the traffic display on Ozrunways is significantly easier to read in the cockpit (plus if you tap on the symbol it enlarges) and just better IMO,...if it looks like a quiet day out there in the Ozrunways world, a quick glance at Avplan would show that it isn't!! User beware. :}


FWIW, my biggest concern with SkyEcho and similar EC products is, like the warnings we ignore on firing up the GPS (you know you do - admit it..) the risk of the user placing even more reliance on the device showing them everything out there than they usually see on their EFB. Perhaps, in that regard, Ozrunways mere 'tease' of surrounding traffic is a good thing??

[MagnumPI]

I have used OzRunways, AvPlan, and Foreflight. The latter is now my preferred EFB. Foreflight was actually one of the oldest iPad apps ever, actually launching as an app before the iPad was created.

If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.

As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.

I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.

[Squawk7700]

Foreflight doesn't have cameras (yet). That's stopping a lot of pilots from looking at it seriously.

[Checkboard]

What does a camera have to do with a Flight Planning EFB ap??

Forgive my ignorance, as I haven't flown in GA (or Australia) for 20 years.

[Gne]

... and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.

Drop me a PM and I'll give you my bank details so you can finalize payment for the bridge in Sydney you want to purchase from me.

Gne

[Squawk7700]

What does a camera have to do with a Flight Planning EFB ap??

Forgive my ignorance, as I haven't flown in GA (or Australia) for 20 years.

The weather cameras.

We've created a culture here of pilots checking the weather cameras and blasting off whilst not checking the weather forecast :-)

[MagnumPI]

Drop me a PM and I'll give you my bank details so you can finalize payment for the bridge in Sydney you want to purchase from me.

Gne

Whatever.

Pretty common in SaaS acquisitions. Yes, they're buying the competitor who has the most market share. They'd also be interested in any IP and learnings they can take from OzRunways to make ForeFlight better.

[BronteExperimental]

I have used OzRunways, AvPlan, and Foreflight. The latter is now my preferred EFB. Foreflight was actually one of the oldest iPad apps ever, actually launching as an app before the iPad was created.

If you've used both Foreflight and OzRunways extensively it's very apparent that Foreflight has features that OzRunways would likely never have had as the market here is just too small.

As an example, Foreflight has two way flight plan sync with the later generation Garmin avionics, as well as displaying ADSB-IN traffic from Garmin avionics on the EFB. That's a massive deal. You can also file flight plans directly to Airservices without opening NAIPs.

I see this acquisition as a positive thing as it allows the hard working team at OzRunways to experience a liquidity event, and Foreflight will take some of the sorta unique Australian things of OzRunways and incorporate the features into Foreflight.

Ive also used FF in the past (and Garmin pilot - useless) but the only thing that differentiated it was the Garmin flight plan sync. Thats handy - but by no means a game changer - even for moderately long IFR routes. Id much prefer to have webcams than wireless flight plan uploads.
So I discussed this directly with OZR yesterday to see if that functionality would make its way to OZR. The short answer is no, and the current plan is for them to remain operating as they are, as a sub of FF/BA. OZR app remains in operation as is.
So don't expect FF or OZR to change here (at least in the near term.)
I agree that its a great result for the OZR team.
I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus, I think they just looked at a complementary business with prob 5mm of revenue and 22k+ users, with a lot of scope for synergies aka cost out.

[PiperCameron]

So I discussed this directly with OZR yesterday to see if that functionality would make its way to OZR. The short answer is no, and the current plan is for them to remain operating as they are, as a sub of FF/BA. OZR app remains in operation as is.
So don't expect FF or OZR to change here (at least in the near term.)
I agree that its a great result for the OZR team.
I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus, I think they just looked at a complementary business with prob 5mm of revenue and 22k+ users, with a lot of scope for synergies aka cost out.

Well, that's a bugger. FF features in OZR would make it unbeatable in this market. Oh well. lost opportunity, etc. etc. :(

..but it's good for Bevan. :ok:

[Lazyload]

My two bits, someone else said similar. Foreflight’s coming to oz, the market’s not big enough for 3 efbs so Boeing is simply taking out the competition to pave the way for foreflight. They will transfer all OzR subscriptions to foreflight. IE Boeing has bought the customer base, not the product. When that transition is done, they’ll close OzR and the brand will disappear from the market. And then of course they’ll bump the subs price substantially.

[Squawk7700]

I don't think FF bought them with any goal to introduce FF to Aus

ForeFlight launched in Aus just before Avalon last year! (2023)

[BronteExperimental]

ForeFlight launched in Aus just before Avalon last year! (2023)
yes I know. I tried it. Sorry I worded that badly. I meant to roll up existing OZR users into the FF app.
I think all we will see with OZR in the medium term will be maybe a subtle rebrand or a FF logo on the splash screen.
I’d imagine most users are sticky. They trial everything once and then stick with what they like. It’s hard to turn existing users. That’s why FF never gained much traction. I bet everyone was like me and trialed it but we’re not sufficiently impressed to ditch Avplan or OZR.
Time will tell I guess.

[FrankAu]

OzRunways have deeper R&D pockets with Boeing owning it now will Android Runway get improved

[PiperCameron]

OzRunways have deeper R&D pockets with Boeing owning it now will Android Runway get improved

That's a very good question. OzR spent a lot of time and effort getting RWY to 'look and feel' the same on Android as their main iPad EFB not all that long ago, and IMHO they nailed it.

RWY was the one thing that stopped me moving to Avplan until recently and it would be a real shame if Boeing stopped investing in it.

[KRviator]

That's a very good question. OzR spent a lot of time and effort getting RWY to 'look and feel' the same on Android as their main iPad EFB not all that long ago, and IMHO they nailed it.

RWY was the one thing that stopped me moving to Avplan until recently and it would be a real shame if Boeing junks it.I'd be over the moon if the takeover means OzR comes to Android. Not the "RWY" app, but the proper OzR with all the features including wifi syncing to the Dynon. I could finally give Apple the asre.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

FF Australian subscription is ~$500(USD) vs Ozrunways $279 AUD. Don't know how Boeing would be looking to push Ozrunways users onto Foreflight without them all running for Avplan (might be the best thing that's ever happened to Bevan).

[ftrplt]

Basic Plus is $173 AUD, and Pro Plus is $346 AUD

[piano_player]

Basic Plus is $173 AUD, and Pro Plus is $346 AUD


plus GST. 🤦‍♂️

[Bosi72]

I tried AVPLAN in past but gave up as not as user friendly as OzR.
However I would like to try AVPLAN again if Bevan or someone can point to some improvement in usability, or some good education material.
This OzR change in ownership would seem to be Bevan's golden opportunity. Hope he grasps it by addressing the negatives of AVPLAN whilst retaining the positives.
I am keen to support local business, but AVPLAN needs to improve compared to my last try some years ago.

What exactly is your struggle with Avplan, and what are the negativities you are referring to?

There are lots of videos on their YouTube channel,
https://youtu.be/J3vFw3_od60?si=y3sVLz8G6JdLzUd5

and from personal experience, their support is way better than OzR.

Functionality wise, both products can do more/less the same things. As with any new product, you will need to spend some time learning and adapting to the new product.
I use it both for VFR and IFR..

[Hoosten]

Best thing about about Ozrunways being sold is that .....

[Hoosten]

Yeah John, I had a personal interaction with the individual named, an immigrant to this country that called ANZAC's unspeakable names on a public forum. He doesn't know how much those comments cost him financially. an abhorent individual.

[Jabberwocky82]

Anyone else noticing a very large increase in the app failing of late? It seems to have happened during the latest version with a lot of issues in the testing phase. I am very surprised it was rolled out with the issues still present.

[Squawk7700]

Anyone else noticing a very large increase in the app failing of late? It seems to have happened during the latest version with a lot of issues in the testing phase. I am very surprised it was rolled out with the issues still present.

I haven’t noticed an issue. I recommend deleting and re-installing the app occasionally rather than upgrading each time. Same goes with many other apps. You’ll need to export and import the settings and waypoints which is a little annoying but it will perform better afterwards.

[Ixixly]

Yeah, haven't noticed any issues either, could you perhaps elaborate on what you mean by "Failing" and what device you're using? I'm assuming you've also contacted them and put in a Ticket?

[Jabberwocky82]

The app is closing down. I have not run a ticket yet as I do participate in the testing versions, with a process to report any issues in the app itself - reopens and send a message. I was recently encountering similar issue son work units that do not use TestFlight and only use the released version. I have shut the iPads down and restarted. I will try the uninstall/reinstall suggestion.
It is usually a very solid app.