COLD WAR VETERANS

[1.3VStall]

There is very little public recognition of the British Armed Forces, except when they are engaged in operations.

There is now an initiative to get belated recognition for the millions who served and helped to preserve the peace during the Cold War.

Please view the petition via the link below, and sign it if you agree with the cause:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/655361 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/655361)

[cheekychimp]

Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years.

Fully agree.

[Idle Reverse]

And throughout this whole, challenging period we remained poised, ready to spring into action like coiled sausages, if / whenever we might have been called to do so. To that end we conscientiously stayed in our green flying suits whilst in the bar, quenching parched throats with copious beers . . (albeit only until 19.00) . . surely this dedication to duty should be recognised in some way ? A medal to me seems absolutely fine :rolleyes:

[Toadstool]

Back in the days when IDF was improvised drinking facility.

[megan]

we conscientiously stayed in our green flying suits whilst in the bar, quenching parched throats with copious beers . . (albeit only until 19.00) . . surely this dedication to duty should be recognised in some way ? A medal to me seems absolutely fineA pewter beer mug on a lanyard about the neck would seem a fitting medal, rather like the MoH is worn.

[Ninthace]

I do not think my time spent keeping the Warsaw Pact at bay is sufficiently meritorious to deserve a medal, unless it is for services to tax free shopping and my selfless support of the German brewing and wine making industries.

[Captain Dart]

On our small Colonial aircraft carrier during the Cold War, its primary mission was the transportation of our testicles from one cocktail party to the next.

That was reward enough.

[Fortissimo]

So where would you place the Nimrod R crews in this? Some of their now unclassified missions were definitely on the risky side. Baltic, east of the North Cape etc. Or the handful of Canberra crews who did solo recce flights into USSR? Or the WIWOLs on QRA trips into the Iceland Faroes gap with an unreliable jet, no real navaids and a fuel gauge that was calibrated between not enough and pitiful?

[OJ 72]

I doubt if the families, friends, and colleagues of the hundreds of UK mil aircrew killed whilst in training, or on exercise between 1947-1991would consider the Cold War as a hoot and a roar, or just all beer and skittles!!!

[radar101]

I agree with my late father. He got GSMs for Cyprus and Aden. Anything else in his 28 year career was just work. After he retired from the RAF he never identified himself as a veteran - he got on with his life.

[Ninthace]

I doubt if the families, friends, and colleagues of the hundreds of UK mil aircrew killed whilst in training, or on exercise between 1947-1991would consider the Cold War as a hoot and a roar, or just all beer and skittles!!!
If you feel that these losses are a direct result of the Cold War, then perhaps there is a case for them to receive a medal. It is not an argument for everyone who was in the armed forces during that period to receive a medal.

[OJ 72]

Ninthace, I didn’t say that, or even allude to it!

All that I was pointing out, however clumsily, was that for some the Cold War was not all about simply getting p*ssed at the NAAFI bop, as some of the earlier respondents seemed to imply!

[Krystal n chips]

I agree with my late father. He got GSMs for Cyprus and Aden. Anything else in his 28 year career was just work. After he retired from the RAF he never identified himself as a veteran - he got on with his life.

Actually, as I found by accident, RAF Veteran is now on my NHS docs and probably everybody else's as well.

[Herod]

The Cold-War period still had many "hot" spots. Suez, Kenya, Malaya, Cyprus, Aden, N.I. Many of those had GSM awards.

[langleybaston]

Ninthace, I didn’t say that, or even allude to it!

All that I was pointing out, however clumsily, was that for some the Cold War was not all about simply getting p*ssed at the NAAFI bop, as some of the earlier respondents seemed to imply!

As civvies, Met. would not get any such medal, and rightly so.
However, 15 of my 40 years were overseas and they were harder work and more rewarding than UK.
Winning the Cold War was reward enough, even though the victory was squandered.

[Video Mixdown]

So where would you place the Nimrod R crews in this? Some of their now unclassified missions were definitely on the risky side. Baltic, east of the North Cape etc. Or the handful of Canberra crews who did solo recce flights into USSR? Or the WIWOLs on QRA trips into the Iceland Faroes gap with an unreliable jet, no real navaids and a fuel gauge that was calibrated between not enough and pitiful?
There were/are ways of recognising particularly valuable service. To lump them in with anyone who participated in the cold war, which is basically anyone in uniform at the time, would do them no favours.

[SLXOwft]

The following is with the provisio, I can't see it happening given the number of suggestions from within parliament for additional medals eg for Op Relentless. Look how feet have been dragged over the 'Wider Service Medal' which Ben Wallace says he signed off months before he stepped down as SoS.

I notice the originator of the petition states provision of the medal itself should be at cost - it should not be provided free of charge.

One thing missing from the petition is a sensible minimum service criterion (with exceptions for those who died or whose service was terminated early due to injury in the line of duty).

The outlook is very UK/Commonwealth, I am thinking of the US Recruiting service and training service ribbons, Professional development Ribbons, Service and training awards etc. True my father's generation joked USN personnel came out of basic training with the Head Cleaning Medal.

There are exceptions to the risk and rigour criteria (which applies to campaign medals), medals are awarded for other reasons, without diminishing the status of campaign medals or gallantry awards.

Do those above who deride the idea, but would be eligible think, LSGCMs should not be awarded?

Thanks to Her Late Majesty's longevity plenty of Jubilee medals are to be seen. As is the King's Coronation Medal.

One shouldn't forget the Soviet Union was happy to send material supplies to the Provos as war by proxy. (Yes, I know GSM NI)

Anyway thanks to those of you who put in a real shift in the Cold War we are still all entitled to express our differing opinions.

[BEagle]

The qualifying criteria for this proposed medal haven't been specified. They need to be, if this is going to be taken at all seriously.

[NutLoose]

As a veteran of Egg Banjo's I feel the need to say bring it on.. The Egg Banjo's that is.. although we did suffer incoming fire in Roermond when some of the locals set off fireworks in our general direction..

[1.3VStall]

Beagle,

How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me.

[NutLoose]

Beagle,

How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me.

Or an overseas tour in Europe. At fifteen years you are cutting a heck of a lot of people out of the equation, six used to be the minimum service at the time, so why not go with six.

[Janda]

During the 70's I spent many hours flying in the Nimrod force. I had almost weekly contact with some sort of Soviet vessel or plane. On a number of occasions I was at 200 feet around the North Cape photographing their warships sometimes being illuminated by fire control radars. Do I expect a medal? NO. Do I think I deserve a medal? NO. I was well recompensed both financially and with the excitement these contacts generated.

[minigundiplomat]

I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to have a career that spanned the Cold War, Balkans and then the sandy unpleasantness. As others have said, specific operations such as Aden had a GSM, but for those that sat in RAFG/BAOR and tainted their shreddies every time they passed close to the inner German Border, to think that was in any way comparable with spending months without proper sleep, living on the roof of a FOB in Sangin under constant attack by small arms, IDF etc strikes me as a little bit 'grabby'.

You spent 3 years on the p1ss, came home, probably with a tax free car. Your colleagues have a far, far, far, reduced prevalence of mental illness (NI and FI aside - read note above re GSM's) - That is what you should be grateful for.

[melmothtw]

Beagle,

How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me.

To paraphrase Bill Burr, does this apply to guy pointing the jet in the direction of the enemy or just to the guy flying the jet?

Go to 2m 15s Bill Burr Got In Trouble For Making Fun Of The Military | CONAN on TBS (youtube.com)

[exMudmover]

cheekychimp - "Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years."

Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.


I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.

Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.



We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:



“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”



That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.


The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.



Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.



In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.

ExMM

[Mil-26Man]

cheekychimp - "Where's the laughing emoji when you need it? Medals are awarded for 'Risk and rigour ' not going on the lash in West Germany for a few years."

Speaking solely about Fast Jet flying, my contention is that the Cold War period was VERY MUCH more dangerous than current peacetime or operational flying.


I would pose the question: How many British Fast Jet aircrew have been killed in training or on operations since GW1? You can probably count the number on one hand.

Compare your answer to the scores of Fast Jet aircrew killed during the “peacetime” Cold War flying. This is not just about medals, it’s about the risk to your pink body every time you got airborne.



We didn’t complain about the risk at the time: we were doing the job we loved and there was an adrenalin rush on almost every flight. One advert for RAF Fast Jet aircrew in the 60s said:



“Same old thing every day - Excitement!”



That was about it. If you found it too exciting then you left and joined an airline, with a better chance of surviving to pick up a pension.


The reason that Cold War Fast Jet flying was so hazardous was because official NATO policy called for almost all Fast Jet Ground Attack and Recce operations to be carried out at Low Level. Hence we had to train all the time at Low Level, in and out of the weather, with constant risk of birdstrike, wirestrike, mid-air collision, ground impact, etc. etc.



Think about trucking around West Germany at 420kt in formation at 250ft agl - permanent industrial haze, windscreen covered in insects, and you are always looking out for the bounce. Everyone else flying in the area would be at the same height as you and therefore a potential collision risk.



In addition, risks had to be taken to get the job done with some of the crummy equipment we had. For example, how many aircrew today continue on task in peace or war with no HUD or no radio? We were having to do that in the Cold War (and in the Falklands war), and it was SOP in peacetime training. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, it’s just a fact.

ExMM

Notwithstanding the truth of any of that, you're effectively asking for medals for training.

[Bob Viking]

I actually believe it wouldn’t be a bad thing if all people who served a minimum period in the military got a medal to prove they had served. Nowadays that could just be considered to be the LSGCM but I would start to give it sooner and change the name. Award at 5 or 10 years with a thin bar for every 5 or 10 years would seem fair.

I honestly think it’s a damn shame that some people served a full career and, through no fault of their own, have no metallic recognition.

I would suggest that those that think it’s a bad idea will likely be those that have some medals and those that like the idea potentially got none. What that would tell you is to offer a little empathy and accept that timing is everything.

BV

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Can we have a parade?

...... I love a parade.

[t7a]

The vast majority here seem to think that it was only RAFG that took part in the cold war ( I had a great time in RAFG on fast jets as well). However, as a first tourist in the mid '60s sat in the right hand seat of a Vulcan with a 500kt basket of sunshine in the bomb bay after the QRA hooter had sounded, the cold war was pretty real. I have no strong opinion about a medal either way.

[PapaDolmio]

Just go on one of the commemorative medal sites, for a modest outlay you can get medals for just about anything remotely connected to your military service.

I've got loads now- nearly as many as a North Korean General.

[MPN11]

Just go on one of the commemorative medal sites, for a modest outlay you can get medals for just about anything remotely connected to your military service.

I've got loads now- nearly as many as a North Korean General.... or a Chief Constable. :ouch:

[staircase]

I have been interested by the postings here, and I see a contradiction.

I did my 14 years in the ‘60’s to the 80’s and no way did I do anything to justify the award of a medal. However I did do 14 years service to the State even if it was well paid, but then so did a lot of junior Civil Servants in Whitehall who got OBE’s etc. So what about a classic British compromise? (fudge)

What about an ‘award’? GCSM, is an award, DFC is a medal. In my ‘70’s it is a bit late for me to care one way which way this discussion goes, but if you feel strongly about it, what about a Cold War Award?

Sure it could take the form of a medal, and if you wish to turn up at the church on November the 11th wearing it fine, but the grand kids may be impressed 20 years from now, when they find it with the veterans badge and the log books.

[Mil-26Man]

Not a fan of gongs, but surely the junior civil servant you cited would have done something to earn the OBE, in the same way a serviceman/woman should have done something to earn a medal.

[ShyTorque]

And throughout this whole, challenging period we remained poised, ready to spring into action like coiled sausages, if / whenever we might have been called to do so. To that end we conscientiously stayed in our green flying suits whilst in the bar, quenching parched throats with copious beers . . (albeit only until 19.00) . . surely this dedication to duty should be recognised in some way ? A medal to me seems absolutely fine :rolleyes:

Lightweights! We had it tough….

[Ninthace]

Junior Civil Servants do not usually get OBEs unless it is merited - senior CSs on the other hand. Even then, it is quite a small % of the total no,

[ORAC]

25 years as a Cold War warrior - no medals or awards of any description. Quite happy about - seeing as t9 the alternative which would have generated them.

Got rid of my uniforms after I left, don’t attend parades, so anything I was sent would be stuck in a drawer and puzzled over and discarded by anyone sorting through my effects once I’m gone. Since millions would be handed out it would have no scarcity or other value either.

Those who know I served know, I have no need to seek additional kudos by other means. I just enjoy telling “war” stories.

If it’s a choice of a medal or Pprune, I’ll stick with the latter…

[oxenos]

In the mid 60's, when Confrontation was ongoing, a Shackleton patrol around East Borneo looking for gun runners "earned" me a GSM Borneo. The same GSM Borneo as was awarded to a squaddie who spent a couple of months up to his arse in a swamp, dodging bullets. At the time it was an embarrasment. It is now in a drawer somewhere ( I think) collecting dust.
What are we old "Cold War Warriors" going to do with a Cold War Medal? Pin it on our pyjamas? Put it in a glass case and hang it on the wall? Wear it on Remembrance Day at the village war memorial?
Who would qualify? Just aircrew, or do you include the whole of the Armed Forces, on the grounds that they could have been on the receiving end of a bucket of Soviet sunshine? Let's leave all that to the Americans.
I would rather the Armed Forces concentrated on recruitment and equipment than pandering to someone's vanity.

[BEagle]

Who would qualify? Just aircrew, or do you include the whole of the Armed Forces....

Quite. Those who served on QRA might be obvious, but we were supported by many, many others as a poster of the times made clear!

That said, describing some of my QRA times to civvy friends led to many incredulous expressions..."We had no idea you did that!" was a typical response. Out of the media, perhaps, didn't help the genpub to understand our 'Cold War' work.

[gums]

Salute!

May seem funny, but after a few years of "not so cold war" in SEA, the U.S. cranked out a ribbon, not a decoration, but a "service ribbon". We who had been over there and got shot at and had actual decorations, did not whine and moan, but simply called it "alive in '65".

That being said, all must realize that less than 10% of service members actually shoot or get shot at. So there was no bad feelings about that "National Defense Service Medal", even tho it wasn't a real "medal".
The real cold war involving nuclear armed planes and missile silos are a different matter, and to this day I cannot come up with some way to honor the millions that stood alert above and below the ground and sea, fixed the jets, watched radar screens for hours and so forth.

We should tip our hats and simply say "thanks".

Gums sends...

[mike rondot]

There is very little public recognition of the British Armed Forces, except when they are engaged in operations.

There is now an initiative to get belated recognition for the millions who served and helped to preserve the peace during the Cold War.

Please view the petition via the link below, and sign it if you agree with the cause:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/655361
Are you sure this isn’t a spoof/prank that has gone viral and sucked a few gullible people into taking it seriously? See: 1/04/2024 for correct date.

[Ninthace]

The number of signatures is not exactly roaring up.

[teeteringhead]

How about 15 years service, which - I believe is - the main criterion these days for the award of the LS&GC medal? That would seem reasonable to me. Perhaps they should sort the retrospective "all ranks" issue of the LS&GM (and bar?) first.

Moi? 36+ years regular service, and another 10 as a uniformed reservist..... no "Long Gong" yet!

[MPN11]

I would be happy to pay for my LS&GC to avoid costing HMG anything. But the parsimonious retrospective criteria for that suggests that a Cold War (ie: served during that time-frame) would be ludicrously expensive in production and administrative terms.

BTW, my Cold War was pretty painless. Loads of exercises and Tacevals at Waddington, and visiting DISTAFF for 11 Gp exercises. Hardly risky or rigorous ... just life in the RAF, really.

[ShyTorque]

The worst thing I remember about my first SH tour in Germany was hearing the town siren going off in the early hours (as it often did) and not knowing if it was for real this time, or just another exercise.

I reckon that our Puma squadron would have lasted less than a couple of days had the tanks come rolling through westbound, bearing in mind our role and that the Soviets designed aircraft specifically to knock us out of the sky.

[downsizer]

25 years as a Cold War warrior - no medals or awards of any description. Quite happy about - seeing as t9 the alternative which would have generated them.

Got rid of my uniforms after I left, don’t attend parades, so anything I was sent would be stuck in a drawer and puzzled over and discarded by anyone sorting through my effects once I’m gone. Since millions would be handed out it would have no scarcity or other value either.

Those who know I served know, I have no need to seek additional kudos by other means. I just enjoy telling “war” stories.

If it’s a choice of a medal or Pprune, I’ll stick with the latter…

But you wanted a verterans ID card? Go figure.

[charliegolf]

The worst thing I remember about my first SH tour in Germany was hearing the town siren going off in the early hours (as it often did) and not knowing if it was for real this time, or just another exercise.

I reckon that our Puma squadron would have lasted less than a couple of days had the tanks come rolling through westbound, bearing in mind our role and that the Soviets designed aircraft specifically to knock us out of the sky.

Whaaat? Nobody told me that! I thought it was a rest tour!:}

CG

[57mm]

Best flying ever, RAFG LLAD and Battle Flight, UK AD and QRA. Why on earth would one want a gong for it?

[ShyTorque]

CG, that was only because they lulled us into a false sense of security, by craftily drugging us with Bratwurst and Warsteiner. ;)

GAS GAS GAS!.....CRASHOUT!

[Mogwi]

The worst thing I remember about my first SH tour in Germany was hearing the town siren going off in the early hours (as it often did) and not knowing if it was for real this time, or just another exercise.

I reckon that our Puma squadron would have lasted less than a couple of days had the tanks come rolling through westbound, bearing in mind our role and that the Soviets designed aircraft specifically to knock us out of the sky.

We reckoned on 30% losses per day on the Harrier force, so about 3 days before you picked up a rifle. Spare can of fuel in the cellar and wife briefed to bug out west if she didn’t hear that the hooter was for an exercise. Serious days and would certainly have been a medals job if they had come over the border. It was just accepted though and was a couple of very good tours.

Certainly don’t think it was worth a gong - had to wait until I was posted back to UK for those!!!

Mog

[Biggus]

When I joined the RAF just about nobody had a medal, by the time I left just about everybody had some - and I mean everybody, adminers, caters, medics.

I seem to remember a dining in night where Mr Vice was wearing more medals than the PMC.

[Specaircrew]

In the interests of ‘Diversity and Inclusivity’ I’m all in favour of medals for the Nav’s and Blunties to recognise their bravery in suffering constant ‘ microagressions’ from us Cold War pilots in Happy Hours. Come to think of it they were more like ‘Maxiagressions’. 🤣

[langleybaston]

Not a fan of gongs, but surely the junior civil servant you cited would have done something to earn the OBE, in the same way a serviceman/woman should have done something to earn a medal.

I don't think junior civil servants [up to and including HEO/ HSO] were awarded OBEs, much more like MBE. To my knowledge, very few SEO/SSO [about S/Ldr or Wg Cdr Messing rates] managed an OBE either. The Other Buggers' Efforts really kicked in at about Principal or PSO [Wg Cdr/ Gp Capt depending on appointment].
My predecessor and my successor in my penultimate job wangled OBEs, I cheerfully burnt any chance of a meaningless bit of tin and enamel for six years in RAFG. No brainer, still have a modest stock of litres of Asbach and incredible memories and friends.

[Saintsman]

I have a Veteran’s badge somewhere.

That’ll do me.

[Diff Tail Shim]

I was lucky (or unlucky) enough to have a career that spanned the Cold War, Balkans and then the sandy unpleasantness. As others have said, specific operations such as Aden had a GSM, but for those that sat in RAFG/BAOR and tainted their shreddies every time they passed close to the inner German Border, to think that was in any way comparable with spending months without proper sleep, living on the roof of a FOB in Sangin under constant attack by small arms, IDF etc strikes me as a little bit 'grabby'.

You spent 3 years on the p1ss, came home, probably with a tax free car. Your colleagues have a far, far, far, reduced prevalence of mental illness (NI and FI aside - read note above re GSM's) - That is what you should be grateful for.
Totally agree on your assessment of the OP. BFG was dangerous only with the odd IRA ASU. 903EAW was way more dangerous with incoming.

[Diff Tail Shim]

We reckoned on 30% losses per day on the Harrier force, so about 3 days before you picked up a rifle. Spare can of fuel in the cellar and wife briefed to bug out west if she didn’t hear that the hooter was for an exercise. Serious days and would certainly have been a medals job if they had come over the border. It was just accepted though and was a couple of very good tours.

Certainly don’t think it was worth a gong - had to wait until I was posted back to UK for those!!!

Mog
And those Medals certainly were earned.

[Diff Tail Shim]

I have a Veteran’s badge somewhere.

That’ll do me.
Lost mine and can I get a replacement?

[ORAC]

But you wanted a verterans ID card? Go figure.
I carried an ID card for 25 years, as did everyone who served, with nary a medal - two different classes of item.

The first, hopefully, will have some use as a discount card and for accessing government se4vices, the latter I consider reserved for those who did something above the ordinary to earn them.

[Diff Tail Shim]

I carried an ID card for 25 years, as did everyone who served, with nary a medal - two different classes of item.

The first, hopefully, will have some use as a discount card and for accessing government se4vices, the latter I consider reserved for those who did something above the ordinary to earn them.Blue light card. Shame half the major UK companies treat them as worthless.

[MG]

Blue light card. Shame half the major UK companies treat them as worthless.

And it seems to be that some companies are disappearing from the list. I guess it’s a combination of tougher trading and reduced visibility for those entitled - nothing like a war or pandemic to raise the public awareness.

[Mogwi]

And it seems to be that some companies are disappearing from the list. I guess it’s a combination of tougher trading and reduced visibility for those entitled - nothing like a war or pandemic to raise the public awareness.

Like Laithwaites☹️

Mog

[212man]

Junior Civil Servants do not usually get OBEs unless it is merited - senior CSs on the other hand. Even then, it is quite a small % of the total no,
Generally for carrying out roles that aren’t in their public job title!

[76fan]

Lost mine and can I get a replacement?
Sad to say anyone can buy one on eBay

[PICKS135]

Apply for replacement here

https://www.gov.uk/apply-medal-or-veterans-badge

[Ninthace]

17 some odd signatures yesterday, 17 some odd and a few more today. Clearly exposure to Jet Blast has not had a huge, or perhaps any, effect. :ugh:

[beamer]

There seem to be umpteen ‘medals’ up for sale these days which are, I presume, only to be worn on the right breast as they are not ‘official’ awards. It always make me smile when I see a chest full of Jubilee medals !

[BEagle]

It always make me smile when I see a chest full of Jubilee medals!

But it still makes me annoyed that so few Queen's Silver Jubilee medals were awarded in 1977, despite personnel being within the qualifying criteria.

[Finningley Boy]

If you feel that these losses are a direct result of the Cold War, then perhaps there is a case for them to receive a medal. It is not an argument for everyone who was in the armed forces during that period to receive a medal.
There are of course, the brush fire wars on the periphery. Korea, Malaya, Cyprus, Borneo, South Yemen (Aden and Radfan Mountains) then of course, Northern Ireland which spanned from 1969 to well past the end. And of course, the Falklands. There are various moments, which affected those in uniform at the time, albeit you can argue came to nothing, but. On top of all for us Brits were; Operation Plainfare, the Hungarian airlift, the Cuban Missile Crisis, constant challenges to flights up and down the Berlin Corridors resulting in the "Jackpine" operation to be ready to engage the Soviet/East German Air Force should thet stick to their guns (so to speak) over escorting RAF/USAF/FAF flights in and out of the air corridors. From my own personal experience, for all its worth, there was the crisis over Poland and General jarowzelski in 1981. Not all cold war warriors were involved in all of these, sometimes actual war footing campaigns, sometimes touch and go moments only. However, there were those who, for example, served in both world wars who never heard a shot fired in anger, but picked up the, the 14-20 service medal, Victory medal, defence medal and the 1939 to 1945 war service medal. There was an argument at the end of the second world war between the some senior officers and I forget the actual name of the department (but I believe the war medals commission), that RAF personnel on operational stations during the war from which aircraft operated against the enemy, should have been recognised with a campaign star. MRAF Sir William Sholto Douglas was one such officer.

FB:)

PS I forgot to mention Belize and Rhodesia

[Ninthace]

But it still makes me annoyed that so few Queen's Silver Jubilee medals were awarded in 1977, despite personnel being within the qualifying criteria.
Our unit got 2, The admiral had one and his ADC got the other. :bored:

[langleybaston]

Our unit got 2, The admiral had one and his ADC got the other. :bored:

RHIP dear sir. RHIP.

[langleybaston]

A Chinese proverb:

A good reputation endureth for ever.

The many bare chested among us know what out friends did, we know what we did, we know what our families put up with, we know that we won.
And we know what wind and piss looks like when we see it.

[Haraka]

Beags.
The buck flowing downhill ,by the time it got to my unit level in 1977 there was just one medal for 60 guys .for me to nominate.
My oldest hairy with a (then comparative) chestful going back to Suez times had proclaimed in the tea bar that it was all a disgrace and that HE for one would never wear it
So it was no prioblem to nomimate the potential incumbent :).

[Nolongerin]

On my Sqn, the two allotted Jubilee Medals were given to a Cpl and a SAC who were a bit ‘rebellious’. I think it was meant to encourage them to conform a little better.

The rest of the Sqn looked on in bewilderment.

[BEagle]

The qualifying criteria for the 1977 Queens Silver Jubilee medal were that you had to have served for 5 years between 1952-1977. However, only about 30000 were actually issued in the UK and as Haraka and others have indicated, the haphazard distribution amongst service personnel raised ill-feeling....

I'd sooner that wrong was righted retrospectively than some Cold War Veteran's medal was struck.

[oxenos]

I'd sooner that wrong was righted retrospectively than some Cold War Veteran's medal was struck.
That was all nearly 50 years ago. As with the proposed "Cold War Medal" what on earth is the point, and what would anyone do with the thing.

[NutLoose]

Lost mine and can I get a replacement?

Ebay...

[melmothtw]

RAF personnel on operational stations during the war from which aircraft operated against the enemy, should have been recognised with a campaign star.

Does that extend to dependents living on those bases? Asking for a friend.

[MPN11]

Our unit got 2, The admiral had one and his ADC got the other. :bored:
My wife, an ADC, was supposed to get one, but then the Stn decided to give it to a wg car who was leaving the service.

[ShyTorque]

My onetime Wg Cdr Boss was awarded an OBE. We had all worked hard for it.

Not surprising that it was instantly renamed “Other Bu&&ers’ Efforts”

[Union Jack]

Our unit got 2, The admiral had one and his ADC got the other. :bored:

I trust that his Flag Lieutenant wasn't too upset...:rolleyes: Too long since you were in dark blue!:D

More seriously, from records in the Naval Secretary's Office I believe that all officers of Flag rank, and all Commanding Officers of ships and establishments, received the SJM automatically.

Jack

[Ninthace]

It was a long time and more than one uniform ago plus an awful lot of jointery since , so now I tend to speak purple rather than dark blue. The flag in question, was a that of a Surgeon Rear Admiral (so not a proper admiral :))

[Davef68]

Anyone got Golden, Diamond and Platinum Jubilee medals and Coronation medal? Would need (by my calculation) 26 years service. (or joining Police/Fire etc in Civilian life)

[Lyneham Lad]

Eng Wing at Valley solved the problem of potential jealousy and ill-feeling by presenting their (one?) allocation to me behind closed-doors with the strict instruction not to show or wear the ribbon until arrival at my new unit (I had just about finished 'clearing' when I was ushered into OC Eng's office). I was somewhat bemused as I wasn't really aware of the existence of such a thing. After a spot of leave, turned up at new location with ribbon in place and this did elicit a number of comments - not all complementary.

[downsizer]

Anyone got Golden, Diamond and Platinum Jubilee medals and Coronation medal? Would need (by my calculation) 26 years service. (or joining Police/Fire etc in Civilian life)

Yes......plenty of people. Including this c/s though I was out 3 weeks after the coronation, still got the medal.

[Toadstool]

Anyone got Golden, Diamond and Platinum Jubilee medals and Coronation medal? Would need (by my calculation) 26 years service. (or joining Police/Fire etc in Civilian life)

Yep, and Long Service and Operational medals. Nothing from during my time towards the end of the Cold War.

[oxenos]

Does that extend to dependents living on those bases? Asking for a friend.
All wives and kids on the married patch, the projectionist at the Astra, the NAAFI manager, George, the Squadron cleaner, the bloke who ran the station farm, Bill the mess receptionist and all the other mess civilian staff.

[langleybaston]

All wives and kids on the married patch, the projectionist at the Astra, the NAAFI manager, George, the Squadron cleaner, the bloke who ran the station farm, Bill the mess receptionist and all the other mess civilian staff.

and even the shabby, bespectacled, balding, indecisive and wrong weather forecaster ?
There's inclusive for you!

[newt]

I would like to thank all contributors to this thread. The inputs are interesting to a man in his mid seventies who spent nearly 22 years defending this nation so they can have their opinions. When I stand at the local Remembrance Sunday event, I find it very difficult to be able to represent the time spent because apart from a veterans badge, who would know? Medals are not always marks of bravery or death. They are marks of representation. A commitment to serve your country. I lost several very close friends during my service. We all accepted the risks. Minutes to get airborne from QRA to chase unidentified targets in lousy weather. Sometimes with no ideal diversion. Then there were hours spent on single seat nuclear QRA, with fifteen minutes to depart and find your way to a target in East Germany to destroy up to half a million people when your family was vaporised on your home base!! If you survived the journey! Yes we had duty free booze and a great social life but how many destroyed their home life. How many families decided enough was enough! Clearly this has become a divisive topic but I believe there is a need for recognition. If you don’t want to sign the petition, then please just ignore it. Don’t offend the guys who did their bit so you can order takeaways and criticise a world they have never experienced!

[BEagle]

Well said, Pete!

[oxenos]

even the shabby, bespectacled, balding, indecisive and wrong weather forecaster ?
We were always on good terms with ours. After the withdrawal of the OWSs, made sure they got a Mawec after each trip. How many remember Mawecs?
How's that for thread drift?


Don’t offend the guys who did their bit so you can order takeaways and criticise a world they have never experienced!
Not sure quite what you are getting at. We all lost friends, flew in **** weather, knew our families were close to a potential target. You seem to suggest that if we do not support this proposal, we should not express an opinion.
​​​​​​​As I said earlier, with the current state of the Armed Forces, there are far more important issues to address.

[cheekychimp]

Don’t offend the guys who did their bit so you can order takeaways and criticise a world they have never experienced!
No, you did the job of every standing military in peacetime, to train for war and act as a deterrent. No different to the men and women in Estonia and Romania now. I did a Laarbruch tour during the Cold war, we often used to discuss how long we'd last come the day they rolled over the IGB, hours probably. But it never happened, we shouldn't give out medals for being ready just in case. As I'm still serving, I'd be seriously embarrassed to wear a CW medal alongside my real operational gongs and would expect to be mercilessly mocked by anyone who joined up post C1990.

[newt]

It was the Cold War. So why don’t you understand what went before? Sums up our younger generation. You would not be here if we had not done our job. When the Muslims are telling you how to live your life, you might regret your stance!! All we are asking for is recognition of the time spent defending the nation. What can’t you understand that? It’s not about glory or actually dropping bombs. It’s about recognition! Oh, and by the way, it was not called peacetime, it was called the Cold War!

[oxenos]

Sums up our younger generation. You would not be here if we had not done our job.
If you read all the posts, I think you will find that a lot of the people who do not see the point of this proposal are not the"younger generation".
I, for one, am in my 80s, served 1960 to 1980.

[Biggus]

newt,

Disparaging anyone who doesn't agree with you - especially on a website like this, were most people commenting have either served or are still serving - is not helping your cause.

[Ninthace]

It was the Cold War. So why don’t you understand what went before? Sums up our younger generation. You would not be here if we had not done our job. When the Muslims are telling you how to live your life, you might regret your stance!! All we are asking for is recognition of the time spent defending the nation. What can’t you understand that? It’s not about glory or actually dropping bombs. It’s about recognition! Oh, and by the way, it was not called peacetime, it was called the Cold War!
I was an active Cold War warrior from my youth in the Royal Observer Corps to 30 years service in both the RN and the RAF.. Anyone who served would be eligible for the medal, as we were all in the front line to a greater or lesser extent. So were all the people who supported us, so was the nation as a whole. So who are you going to give it to? Where will you draw the line and say you contributed and you didn’t?

[1.3VStall]

Newt,

I agree with you. How many posters, who are anti the idea of a Cold War medal, have Jubilee and/or Coronation medals? These, unlike operational/bravery awards, are simply awarded to recognise service - which is what a Cold War medal would do. Which, incidentally, the LS&GC medal does and which officers now receive: (not in my day).

In any event, the criteria to award gongs are risible. In his 40s, my father became a Special Constable - not because he wanted to serve, but because he wanted to join the Police Male Voice Choir! In ten years he was called out twice: once to a Test Match and once to keep back children, while a beekeeper dealt with a bee swarm. After ten years he was awarded a medal - for 8 hours of service and much singing! He was most amused to add it to the row of WWII medals that he earned as an RAF pilot.

Like you, Newt, I simply have a veterans' badge to show for 28 years of service. (There were two wars during my time: Falklands and GW1; I was serving as a Whitehall Warrior for both).

So, I have signed the petition; a Cold War medal would be something I could give to my lads to show them that I did something useful for a large part of my working life. Oh, and like Beags, I feel that the award of Silver Jubilee medals was an absolute farce - it was a ballot on my station!

[NutLoose]

I signed it too, not that I would be particularly interested in having one myself, but because a lot of people would, so I have signed it to further their cause.

[langleybaston]

I signed it too, not that I would be particularly interested in having one myself, but because a lot of people would, so I have signed it to further their cause.

I signed, but would not qualify.
Wife organised a move every 3 yrs avge 40 years, could not work for 15 of them, children moved school after school ........ What did you do in the Cold War Gpa?
Would be nice to have a trinket.

[snapper41]

I’d just be happy with the Long Service medal. I didn’t get one because, having served 26 years, I had the temerity to leave in 2011 before it was awarded to officers.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

I think this boils down to whether you're a "badges? We don't need no steeenking badges..." person, or you're not.

Unlike many participants in the Cold War I managed to get myself shot at on a few occasions, but that was life in a light-blue suit on a helicopter unit. Personally I don't want any more gongs - certainly not the "Long Distance/ Undetected Crime" which I believe should be expected of every ossifer - but have no objection to those who wish to re-live past experiences in some form or other. My wife is also happy not to be reminded of the exigencies of life married to a 1970s-2000s service person :uhoh:.

[Widger]

An interesting discussion and it is good to see that it has evolved into a more mature discussion that those first few posts, with individuals decrying the efforts of others.

Not everyone sat on an aerodrome in Germany, drinking pilsner. Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland. Yes we got paid and fed (until pay as you starve) and many of us benefit from a good pension but, I do feel that the sacrifices of that generation should be recognised. When I joined, most only had 1 medal and that was if they had been down south in 1982. Well deserved. There were the odd DSOs etc, mostly submariners. Before Afghanistan, there were a few Admirals and senior officers with no medals despite their service of merit.

I spent 25 years in, was sat in the Gulf in 1992 whilst Saddam was still kicking off , worked supporting Deny Flight (Bosnia) helping to prevent genocide, took part in supporting our allies in the South China Sea, undertook anti drug patrols and lots of other stuff and all I have to show for it was a Golden Jubilee Medal (for which I am grateful) but which was such a low bar for award. If those who had never stepped in harms way but just served for 5 years could get a Jubilee medal (including various flavours since) or sit in Cyprus during GWI/II , why not recognition for those who helped keep Europe safe, a story that is only just being told. You only have to look and see what is happening in Ukraine to realise the threat that was kept at bay by our combined strength. I for one have signed the petition, 20 years to qualify I suggest.

[Mil-26Man]

Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland.

None of this was unique to the Cold War (the subject of this thread). Service personnel are doing all of this today, so what medal would you recommend for them - Cold War 2.0? All of this is literally the job of the armed forces.

[Widger]

None of this was unique to the Cold War (the subject of this thread). Service personnel are doing all of this today, so what medal would you recommend for them - Cold War 2.0? All of this is literally the job of the armed forces.

Whataboutism at its best. Because similar events are ongoing now, that's reason enough not to recognise those that have gone before. Let get rid of all General service medals then!

[Mil-26Man]

Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?

[212man]

Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?
Yes, but for specific concurrent campaigns like Borneo, Radfan etc

[Widger]

Were there no General service medals awarded during the Cold War?

I refer the honourable gentleman to the response he made some time ago.

​​​​​​​Quote:
We've been at.peace with Russia since the 1850s.
Nope - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_Intervention

And although never 'hot', the Cold War can hardly be characterised as peace (the clue is in the name).

[Mil-26Man]

Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?

[Mil-26Man]

And although never 'hot', the Cold War can hardly be characterised as peace (the clue is in the name).

Indeed, 'Cold' meant it wasn't a war in the normal sense of the word.

[NutLoose]

And NI 212man

[Widger]

Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?

This thread is not about what is happening now, it is about campaigning for recognition, for those that stood firm in this country during that period up until 1991. Stop trying to negate what others did in some facile argument that it would somehow devalue what is going on now. If you don't want to sign the petition, then you are entirely at liberty not to do so, a liberty brought about by those who are serving now and those who went before.

[Mil-26Man]

You seem to have done a lot during your time Widger, I'm sorry none of it earned you a medal. Good luck with the petition.

[Ninthace]

An interesting discussion and it is good to see that it has evolved into a more mature discussion that those first few posts, with individuals decrying the efforts of others.

Not everyone sat on an aerodrome in Germany, drinking pilsner. Many others spent months away from families, often in horrendous weather, hunting submarines (big up the MPA force), protecting the nuclear deterrent, trying to shake off Russian AGIs, flying, like Mog at sea, at night, without a diversion and sat in ships getting buzzed by Russian MPAs. Submariners, who closed the hatch in Scotland and opened it again, 3 months later in Scotland. Yes we got paid and fed (until pay as you starve) and many of us benefit from a good pension but, I do feel that the sacrifices of that generation should be recognised. When I joined, most only had 1 medal and that was if they had been down south in 1982. Well deserved. There were the odd DSOs etc, mostly submariners. Before Afghanistan, there were a few Admirals and senior officers with no medals despite their service of merit.

I spent 25 years in, was sat in the Gulf in 1992 whilst Saddam was still kicking off , worked supporting Deny Flight (Bosnia) helping to prevent genocide, took part in supporting our allies in the South China Sea, undertook anti drug patrols and lots of other stuff and all I have to show for it was a Golden Jubilee Medal (for which I am grateful) but which was such a low bar for award. If those who had never stepped in harms way but just served for 5 years could get a Jubilee medal (including various flavours since) or sit in Cyprus during GWI/II , why not recognition for those who helped keep Europe safe, a story that is only just being told. You only have to look and see what is happening in Ukraine to realise the threat that was kept at bay by our combined strength. I for one have signed the petition, 20 years to qualify I suggest.

So let's go with it. What are the selection criteria going to be?
Service personnel only?
What about all the civilians on units without whom we could not have functioned?
What about the ROC?
What about the UKWMO?
How long do you have to have served?
Where?
Doing what?

I'll stop there. Answer those first.

[Hornet Dog]

Tell that to the widows and parents of RAF aircrew killed in flying accidents as a result of pushing themselves and their aircraft to and beyond the limits to maintain deterrence..

[snapper41]

Yes, but for specific concurrent campaigns like Borneo, Radfan etc

There was that little dust-up in Northern Ireland for 30 years too, IIRC.

[Geriaviator]

No medals for that I'm afraid, though many deserved them for protecting the citizens. Politically it would be viewed as similar to Culloden, another unrecognised battle. Though I'm not starting discussion on either event.

[Video Mixdown]

No medals for that I'm afraid, though many deserved them for protecting the citizens. Politically it would be viewed as similar to Culloden, another unrecognised battle. Though I'm not starting discussion on either event.
Have you not heard of GSM(NI)?

[Toadstool]

Right, so if the Cold War in its entirety is reclassified as a specific campaign for the purposes of this medal (rather than the particular shooty bits of it), how would Widger recognise today's service personnel who are doing the exact same thing he and others did decades ago?

A previous SoS for Defence was looking into this. It’s called the wider service medal and would recognise those personnel who actually deploy to the Baltic or for those, like 51 Sqn, who have been involved in Russia Facing activity before the Ukraine war kicked off and ever since.

[Geriaviator]

Have you not heard of GSM(NI)?
Yes of course, sorry slipped my mind along with decades of other stuff which I try to leave in the past.

[Ninthace]

If such a medal is ever to be awarded, the algorithm will need a lot of work to identify and locate intended recipients. One question I would add to the list of Qs I already posted, would it be awarded posthumously, because that is another can of worms.

I saw mention that it might be purchased rather than awarded. Even then, depending on the algorithm, the authentication process will be time consuming, unless you just take someone's word for it, and wearing a medal that you had to buy just doesn't sit right with me.

[BEagle]

Around 300000 GSM(NI) were awarded.... Yes, three hundred thousand!

Nowadays LS&GC is awarded after 15 years service. Perhaps 15 years service between 1947 and 1991 would be reasonable for any 'Cold War Veteran' medal?

[Ninthace]

Around 300000 GSM(NI) were awarded.... Yes, three hundred thousand!

Nowadays LS&GC is awarded after 15 years service. Perhaps 15 years service between 1947 and 1991 would be reasonable for any 'Cold War Veteran' medal?
Everyone?
Irrespective of where they served and what they did?
That means a front line pilot that did say 10 years in RAF(G) gets nothing but a clerk that did 15 years in the archives in Little-Wallop-On-The Bottom gets a gong

[Akrotiri bad boy]

I'd say anyone that did what they were asked to do in completing their fixed term of engagement, no PVR's.

[212man]

There was that little dust-up in Northern Ireland for 30 years too, IIRC.
Sorry , I used etc rather than list each campaign - to emphasise there were many. Of course Op Banner too.

[Ninthace]

I'd say anyone that did what they were asked to do in completing their fixed term of engagement, no PVR's.
What about those unable to complete their engagement because of a medical discharge?


Are you all beginning to see how complicated it gets yet?

[oxenos]

So let's go with it. What are the selection criteria going to be?
Service personnel only?
What about all the civilians on units without whom we could not have functioned?
What about the ROC?
What about the UKWMO?
How long do you have to have served?
Where?
Doing what?

I'll stop there. Answer those first.
Exactly the point I was making when I said
​​​​​​​All wives and kids on the married patch, the projectionist at the Astra, the NAAFI manager, George, the Squadron cleaner, the bloke who ran the station farm, Bill the mess receptionist and all the other mess civilian staff.
So I exaggerated - its called hyperbole.

If 300,000 GSM (NI) were issued, how many would the Cold War Medal run to? A million? one and a half million?
When you dish them out like that, they become meaningless.

[Video Mixdown]

I would argue that there was no 'Cold War' anyway really. The term is just shorthand for the geopolitical/military tensions that existed at the time - you won't find Cold War on the Battle Honours of any RAFG Squadron. We were there to deter war, not to fight one, and essentially all most of us were doing was enhanced training. Certainly some faced more danger and hardship than others, but there are already a whole range of medals, awards, commendations and Good Shows to recognise particularly valuable service. I am pleased for all concerned that the feared war never happened, and if our efforts helped bring that about, that's thanks enough for me.
​​​​​

[Ninthace]

Amen to that.

[dctyke]

Exactly the point I was making when I said

So I exaggerated - its called hyperbole.

If 300,000 GSM (NI) were issued, how many would the Cold War Medal run to? A million? one and a half million?
When you dish them out like that, they become meaningless.

The MSM medal used to to be limited to around eight per year. A board of senior officers chose the recipients from recommendations from PMA. In 2004 it was changed drastically and in that year more were issued than in the previous thirty years, no real reason for the change was publicised. Now every WO and FS who has done over thirty years seems to get one.

[Haraka]

Beags Well considering the RAF weren't even there in N.I. officially in the early days ( when mine was handed out by the back door) I find that figure astounding.
( incidentally , to avoid silly questions , many of us didn't put it up.)

[Mil-26Man]

Beags Well considering the RAF weren't even there in N.I. officially in the early days ( when mine was handed out by the back door) I find that figure astounding.
( incidentally , to avoid silly questions , many of us didn't put it up.)

Given that RAF Aldergrove opened in 1918, I'd suggest they were officially there even in the early days.

[NutLoose]

Given that RAF Aldergrove opened in 1918, I'd suggest they were officially there even in the early days.

And as they used to maintain the fleet of Phantoms for the RAF and Navy, one hardly imagines you could slip those in and out quietly.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Beags Well considering the RAF weren't even there in N.I. officially in the early days ( when mine was handed out by the back door) I find that figure astounding.
( incidentally , to avoid silly questions , many of us didn't put it up.)
​​​​​
RAF Ballykelly...?

Oh &...TSW were officially operating out of Bessbrook Mill as far back as 1970.

[Toadstool]

Now every WO and FS who has done over thirty years seems to get one.

I’d love to see where you got the stats for that. MSMs are awarded in the Honours List after the recipients being written up. A look at how many FSs and OR9s we have in the RAF, and how many are awarded MSMs would give you a more accurate depiction.

[huge72]

This campaign has been going on since 2004 as far as I know under the guise of the National Defence Medal. It has been through at least 3 Medal Reviews and each time it has failed. This campaign has however high lighted some that have been successful, i:e Artic Star, GSM (Cyprus) and more recently The Atomic Tests Medal. The same reasons of lack of medallic recognition has been given with all the arguments here. It is doomed to failure precisely for the reason of lack risk and rigour. I understand the frustration felt by the COLD War Warriors but there will always be some who miss out. There have always been arguments over whether some should or some should not. I am one of the quoted 300000 GSM (NI) recipients. I spent nearly 9 years over the water as a crewman flying in South Armagh but I am no more worthy than a clerk behind the wire in Aldergroves General Office. The criteria is laid down and the medal office sticks to it. I retired in 2010 after nearly 40 years and have gone on to complete another 13 years as Commissioned Staff in the ATC. I presently have 11 medals and 3 extra bars, not for being brave but just in the right place at the time. Therefore from a position of having had recognition I support the campaign, so that those that haven't may be recognised in some way but as I have said sadly it is doomed to fail in the end.

[Davef68]

I’d love to see where you got the stats for that. MSMs are awarded in the Honours List after the recipients being written up. A look at how many FSs and OR9s we have in the RAF, and how many are awarded MSMs would give you a more accurate depiction.
If I recall there is also still a limit on how many MSMs can be awarded in any year.

[NutLoose]

They will probably issue one in about 30 years time when most of those that would qualify have died off and the numbers to mint will be financially viable.

[SLXOwft]

MSM:
as per BRd 3(1) NAVAL PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT

Chapter 44 effect June 2017

4425. Meritorious Service Medal (MSM)
a. The MSM can be awarded to not more than 201 candidates from the Regular
Forces in each calendar year. The award quota is RN/RM not more than 52, Army not
more than 89, and RAF not more than 60 per calendar year. There are no clasps to
this award.

Apparently the RAF recommendation process is under review

[Wensleydale]

Why not just back-date the LSGC medal for Officers and then use a bar to this medal for service during the period of the Cold War? (A Bar seems appropriate given the RAF culture of the period).

[dctyke]

If my memory is correct, 2003 seven were awarded. In 2004 it was sixty.

[langleybaston]

Exactly the point I was making when I said

So I exaggerated - its called hyperbole.

If 300,000 GSM (NI) were issued, how many would the Cold War Medal run to? A million? one and a half million?
When you dish them out like that, they become meaningless.

Regardless of desirability, or criteria, there would be enough special cases to open a sub-Ministry of Defence for sifting claims into eternity.
Prefacing this with noting that I am ambivalent about a Cold War Medal, if several other sorts of folk deserve one, perhaps I do/don't.

It is not generally known that in the period in question Met staff [MoD civilians] being sent to many overseas posts [voluntarily or otherwise] fell under the Air Force Act and held a Dormant Commission in an appropriate rank. No uniform except combats and NBC, no weapon apart from pistol [Cyprus EOKA period and when attached 1 BR Corps BFG], no extra pay, no RAF ID ................ the commission to be activated by the S o S, together with an ID, pistol and officer number. Essentially this was for TTW, and every year we in BFG [not just RAFG] did full NBC training and occasionally donned combats. I had a name badge on my chest, and a Met Officer badge on the shoulders, to be exchanged for the relevant [!] rank badge .................. Flt Lt at RAF Gutersloh [and also as deputy S Met O 1 Br Corps on exercises], Sqn Ldr at JHQ as a senior forecaster and finally Gp Capt at JHQ as C Met O BFG. [At dinners I was seated above the Wg Cdrs and below the proper Gp Capts, protocol at its most British]. The Air Cdre SASO was my line manager.

All the above was totally about potential WW III and nobody is more glad than I was to not have to stay behind as my family activated Plan B and drove Westwards if one of the Mini/Maxi/TACEVALS turned out to be the real thing.

But here is the crux. BFG was crawling with civvy Executive Officers and above with absolutely no war task or commitment [and more pay].

In the vanishingly unlikely scenario of a gong being forthcoming, the fewer than 100 Met Officers [at any one time] have to be higher up the food chain than the civvy pen-pushers

A NOTE FOR THE WELL-INFORMED.
Not to be confused with the Mobile Met Unit, all part -time uniformed and armed RAFRO or RAFVR who deployed from their usual civilian station to support out of area exercises and ops [and rightly collected a huge array of chest salad in the process].

No need to answer .............. just pointing out the intrinsic difficulty of a CW Medal.

[oxenos]

there would be enough special cases to open a sub-Ministry of Defence for sifting claims into eternity.
I know I am repeating myself, but I strongly feel that the Armed forces have enough to worry about without having to find the money and the people to set this up.
Just so that those few of us who feel a need to be recognised have a bauble to wear on Remembrance Day.

[John Eacott]

Many of my motorbike riding mates were Australia Defence Force (ADF) and wear a red and white medal ribbon (https://www.defence.gov.au/adf-members-families/honours-awards/medals/australian-awards/australian-defence-medal) on their jacket/vest. When I got round to asking what theatre they received the gong, it turns out that it is a four year Defence Medal; awarded for being enlisted for four years, issued to all ranks. There are other LSGC medals but that one gives a bit of tin for enlisting, I suppose.

https://www.defence.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/AusDefMedal-obv-L1.jpeg

[T28B]

I served in the Cold War.
I did not get a medal for doing so.
I am fine with that.

[binbrook]

I remember the shock in about 1970 of seeing a Group Captain whose uniform had pilot's wings but no medal ribbons. Someone may remember him. Like many, he presumably served without qualifying for a GSM, and missed out on a Coronation Medal. After Korea, apart from Polar Medals that was about all there were.

[Bob Viking]

Almost like seeing a CAS with no wings and no campaign medals.

Pulls pin, releases the fly-off handle and rolls it into the room…

BV

[langleybaston]

I remember the shock in about 1970 of seeing a Group Captain whose uniform had pilot's wings but no medal ribbons. Someone may remember him. Like many, he presumably served without qualifying for a GSM, and missed out on a Coronation Medal. After Korea, apart from Polar Medals that was about all there were.

Surely somebody should have slipped him an OBE or such?
RHIP and all that!

[Expatrick]

Civilian interloper here, so a personal opinion and happy to be flamed!

The cold war was a period of exceptional tension, and therefore strain and risk, on our defenders in the armed forces and, therefore, in my mind, worthy of recognition, Medals sound good - and the cost? Minimal in the greater scheme of things. IMO.

[Toadstool]

Civilian interloper here, so a personal opinion but happy to be flamed!

The cold war was a period of exceptional tension, and therefore strain and risk, on our defenders in the armed forces and, therefore, in mind, worthy of recognition, Medals sound good - and the cost? Minimal in the greater scheme of things. IMO.

I have to say, my experience of the Cold War was work hard, play harder. The period between that and the years doing Expeditionary warfare never quite matched that experience. Medal for Cold War? If it ever came to fruition, at least I wouldn’t have to pay to get my medals remounted. (Apart from my miniatures).

[kiwi grey]

Many of my motorbike riding mates were Australia Defence Force (ADF) and wear a red and white medal ribbon (https://www.defence.gov.au/adf-members-families/honours-awards/medals/australian-awards/australian-defence-medal) on their jacket/vest. When I got round to asking what theatre they received the gong, it turns out that it is a four year Defence Medal; awarded for being enlisted for four years, issued to all ranks. There are other LSGC medals but that one gives a bit of tin for enlisting, I suppose.

The NZ Defence Force introduced the Defence Service Medal in 2011:https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/358x520/screenshot_2024_02_09_131550_2ca21b262fd91afc9be7254c7dc738b 0602f1c02.jpegThe criterion for eligibility is three years service since 3 September 1945.
It has four clasps: Regular, Reserve, National Service and CMT (Compulsory Military Service): in theory a person could earn all four, but more than two is unusual

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Defence_Service_Medal

[1.3VStall]

Looking at what AUS and NZ have done to recognise military service, how about the LS &GC medal is awarded retrospectively to officers who retired before it was awarded to officers? Add clasps for Cold War and, say 15 years and 25 years service, and job is done: cheaply!

[cheekychimp]

Looking at what AUS and NZ have done to recognise military service, how about the LS &GC medal is awarded retrospectively to officers who retired before it was awarded to officers? Add clasps for Cold War and, say 15 years and 25 years service, and job is done: cheaply!
What about those who didn't do long enough to receive the LS&GC, but still fulfilled their contract? The Cpl storeman who did 12years, mainly at Bruggen and Gut, is he not worthy? Or the Private machine gunner from the Royal Anglians, who did 9 years? A new medal would be needed and millions would qualify. Even if I agreed with it, I most definitely don't, we've more important things to waste taxpayers money on like heating and hot water.

[NutLoose]

I remember the shock in about 1970 of seeing a Group Captain whose uniform had pilot's wings but no medal ribbons. Someone may remember him. Like many, he presumably served without qualifying for a GSM, and missed out on a Coronation Medal. After Korea, apart from Polar Medals that was about all there were.


When I arrived at Bruggen I was one of the few on the Sqn to have a medal, the others tending to have the LSGC ones, Mine was a GSM, common as Muck at Odiham, but rare in the rest of the RAF.

[BEagle]

Looking at what AUS and NZ have done to recognise military service, how about the LS &GC medal is awarded retrospectively to officers who retired before it was awarded to officers? Add clasps for Cold War and, say 15 years and 25 years service, and job is done: cheaply!

Not a good idea. If it is to be approved, it should be an unique medal for those who served a minimum qualifying period of uniformed service between 1947-1991.

[ShyTorque]

Even if I agreed with it, I most definitely don't, we've more important things to waste taxpayers money on like heating and hot water.

Not forgetting HS2, NHS computer systems that don’t work, etc etc.

[ShyTorque]

What a strange answer. I began by agreeing with you. You took it from there.

[ShyTorque]

Apology accepted. I suggest that you might delete the edited posts. :)

[Biggus]

While it is of no help to Cold War veterans, presumably going forward the proposed Wider Service Medal will avoid this issue in the future?

[Toadstool]

While it is of no help to Cold War veterans, presumably going forward the proposed Wider Service Medal will avoid this issue in the future?

The WSM seems to be gaining more traction. I’ll probably get that before the Coronation Medal at this rate.

[ORAC]

While it is of no help to Cold War veterans, presumably going forward the proposed Wider Service Medal will avoid this issue in the future?


https://x.com/pinstripedline/status/1764240392566849716?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


An interesting leak via ARRSE that on 25 March, SofS will be announcing the Wider Service Medal. Long overdue and right to issue medallic recognition for those deployed for long periods abroad on ops that may not be kinetic, but still involve significant hard work.
​​​​​​​

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1213x601/image_225aab4442135c5088f1ec8348de24e12ac26321.png

[Bob Viking]

This is a good move in my book. Nothing I ever did would have qualified but I’m glad that some will receive it for their efforts.

BV

[Stitchbitch]

BV were you a QFI at Valley, if so you should rightly qualify. Tongue in cheek, most of us thought of it as overseas when we did MPC on Anglesey.

[RubiC Cube]

During the 70's I spent many hours flying in the Nimrod force. I had almost weekly contact with some sort of Soviet vessel or plane. On a number of occasions I was at 200 feet around the North Cape photographing their warships sometimes being illuminated by fire control radars. Do I expect a medal? NO. Do I think I deserve a medal? NO. I was well recompensed both financially and with the excitement these contacts generated.
but what about the dangers on Taceval of cowering behind notices saying this window is sandbagged?

[beamer]

I guess a CW medal would be of rather more relevance than Jubilee and Coronation ‘gongs’ but upon the hypothesis that most of us here are now ‘veterans’, do we really care after all these years….move on.

nb not comparable to the Bomber Command 1939-1945 issue in whose debt we still remain.

[Yellow Sun]

I guess a CW medal would be of rather more relevance than Jubilee and Coronation ‘gongs’ but upon the hypothesis that most of us here are now ‘veterans’, do we really care after all these years….move on.

nb not comparable to the Bomber Command 1939-1945 issue in whose debt we still remain.

Concur with those sentiments and would add the LSGC medal for officers to the list of irelevant things.

YS

[Janda]

but what about the dangers on Taceval of cowering behind notices saying this window is sandbagged?
I felt there was more danger from the compo sausages blocking up my system for several days!!!

[BEagle]

I felt there was more danger from the compo sausages blocking up my system for several days!!!
I loathed those grease slugs - just WHAT were they made from? Animal, vegetable or mineral?

[The Oberon]

I loathed those grease slugs - just WHAT were they made from? Animal, vegetable or mineral?
A quick Google for Westlers Pork Sausages In Lard will fix you up. Still available on occasions.

[212man]

A quick Google for Westlers Pork Sausages In Lard will fix you up. Still available on occasions.
Stick to the bacon grill!