Piper PA-31 belly lands at La Rochelle

[NutLoose]

They put it down on a foamed runway, that must be a rarity in itself these days.

More:

https://airlive.net/emergency/2024/01/15/a-piper-pa-31-landed-with-gear-up-at-la-rochelle-france/


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1888x909/a_piper_pa_31_landed_with_gear_up_at_la_rochelle_france_e3f9 76783b5e3e4f2ea9f59fca9d435895f37064.jpg

[hazza4257]

Beautiful flying over La Rochelle and l’île de Ré. Probably still smoother than my Ryanair landing there a couple of years ago

[340drvr]

Looks like both props feathered.

[FUMR]

Looks like both props feathered.

Presumably just before contact with the ground, which would make sense.

[Peter Fanelli]

Presumably just before contact with the ground, which would make sense.
Actually makes no sense at all.
It's not going to save the propellors and can do more damage to the engines should a feathered blade find a crack or something it can dig in to.

Many years ago I saw a Duchess land nosewheel up with the props feathered on a dirt runway. Feathered blade dug in and tore the engine and mount out of the air frame.
There was a similar situation with an Aztec more years ago that flipped and killed all five on board.

Let the props go, why try to save something that belongs to the insurance company as soon as it touches the ground anyway.

[Pilot DAR]

Yeah, my training has been to only consider feathering the props for a gear up if you know the airplane well enough that you think you can get them horizontal - but a low priority in any case. If the engines are shut down, and three blade propellers are stopped, or gently windmilling, the hurt to the engine will be the least it can be for the circumstances. Aim for a hard surface runway, not the turf, for the reason stated above, you'd rather slide and coast to a stop, than to dig in some part of the airplane and spin at around or flip it.

When I one had a gear failure, in a 310, and thought that a gear up landing (at Toronto YYZ) was a possibility, we discussed foaming the runway. The best wisdom was to foam the runway well down, so I could touch down on the dry, and slide into the foam, rather than land in foam, or accidentally overfly it in a poorly judged flare. Happily, the gear mysteriously free fell while I fought with the (non functioning) emergency crank, so a normal landing was possible. Though I did land three green, my mistake was taxiing in to the apron. I later was reminded that I should have shut down on the runway, and had the gear physically locked down, and had it towed in.

I've had to land amphibious floatplanes one side up, the other side down a couple of times. Happily, landing gently on the ice that way is a non event.

[FUMR]

But it was on a foamed runway remember. Does that not make a difference?

[treadigraph]

Happily, the gear mysteriously free fell while I fought with the (non functioning) emergency crank, so a normal landing was possible

Did they foam the runway at all or did you get the greens before they started?

Incidentally, occasionally wondered in idle moments how a foamed runway is decontaminated afterwards, does it naturally subside fairly quickly for rinse off with water or is there a more elaborate clean up?

[Pilot DAR]

Did they foam the runway at all or did you get the greens before they started?

Happily, I had lots of fuel, so time was on my side. 'Two and a half hours trying to get the gear down, with all kinds of help and advice over the radio. Discussion about foaming the runway for me, and how it would be done, but I could tell that they were not eager, and would only do it if I really asked. I really did not want to ask. Ultimately, while I forced the [jammed] emergency hand crank, something popped, and the gear free fell. So no foamed runway required!

Foam will dissipate, but for the few times we used it while I was a firefighter, we'd hose it off afterward. I'm not sure about a stretch of runway though!

[treadigraph]

Cheers PD! :ok:

[what next]

Yeah, my training has been to only consider feathering the props for a gear up ....

Sometimes you must go beyond your training, which was probably not provided by someone who ever landed this kind of aircraft on it's belly or flew it with both engines feathered, and think for yourself.

[Pilot DAR]

Sometimes you must go beyond your training, which was probably not provided by someone who ever landed this kind of aircraft on it's belly or flew it with both engines feathered, and think for yourself.

Very true.

I think back on 47 years as a pilot, and 47 years receiving training, mentoring, and good advice (some here), and realize that I have been the recipient of excellence and very diverse pilot training, in good context to the types I have flown. Very happily, though I had a number of hours in the Aztec prior to my formal multi training, I had the use of a Cessna 310 for my multi training and ride. The training pilot was excellent, and yes we did engine shut downs, and feather/un-feather in flight, and single engined go-arounds, and other demanding training, which I think is less common these days. And, I sought out an examiner for my multi ride in the 310, who trained for a flying school with a fleet of 310's. He taught me many things during my ride, and passed me too!

As for props hitting the runway during wheels up landings, one point for MT composite props, the blades break off reducing loads into the engine. An airplane I'd flown a lot last spring suffered a problem, and the sacrifice of the MT prop's blades has probably saved the engine. More on that after the investigation is complete.

In the mean time, yes, fly so time is on your side when the unexpected happens, and then use that time to consider your options. Yeah, the insurance company might be buying the plane afterwards, but you're still along for the end of the ride - make it gentle!

[NutLoose]

And try to keep slightly off the centreline.. One aircraft I had to repair was a mess on the underside and not just shaved metal, the pilot had put it down on the centreline and the damage the runway lights did to the frames were a sight to behold, once the skin had split or was chaffed away the slightly raised lights then gave the frames a heck of a battering.

[fdr]

Looks like both props feathered.

Presumably just before contact with the ground, which would make sense.

The feathered prop transmits a greater bending load to the crank shaft than the prop does when at low power and low blade angle. In all cases the prop is toast, and there is a likelihood of the engine crank shaft being out of tolerances from the loads imposed.

[RatherBeFlying]

These days in Canada a prop contact with the ground or object requires a teardown. That's what had to be done when the wingtip of a landing glider got in front of a taxiing towplane. Fortunately it wasn't the glider pilot's noggin.