ATC contributed to 15% of flight delays in December

[AnotherFSO]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/air-traffic-control-contributed-to-15-per-cent-of-flight-delays-in-december-20240111-p5ewnt.htmlAir traffic control contributed to 15 per cent of flight delays in December"More than 15 per cent of delayed flights were caused by the government body responsible for air navigation safety last month, with its latest aviation network update revealing it’s still marred by staffing issues.

Airservices Australia, which manages Australia’s airspace and employs the country’s air traffic controllers, said it did not have enough staff available over the lead-up to the peak holiday season, which was also hit with a bout of bad weather.

Overall, the service said it was responsible for 6 per cent of total flight cancellations and 16 per cent of the total delays in December.

... "

[joe_bloggs]

I wonder if they have ever measured the impact on flight safety of airspace changes/closures?

[sunnySA]

Australian Aviation Network Overview
December 2023
AsA December (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Australian-Aviation-Network-Overview-December-2023.pdf)

[sunnySA]

Australian Aviation Network Overview
December 2023
AsA December (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Australian-Aviation-Network-Overview-December-2023.pdf)
Service Variation Air Traffic Control Towers p17
Alice Springs with 80.5 hours doesn't get a mention.

"There's nothing to see here, move along..."

[SHVC]

So with a push to reimburse passengers for delays of 3hrs or more, will ASA be held responsible to the airlines for delaying them!

[Johnny_56]

To be fair - it means 85% of delays aren’t due to ATC…

****ty infrastructure, outsourcing, lack of crew, weather.

Is 15% an unusual number? ATC delays into Perth are crazy at the moment (especially in busy days), but then they have to work with a single runway half the time, no high speed taxi-ways, half of the flights have to drag their arses down to ‘D’ to vacate. The infrastructure is terrible - at least in Perth

[SHVC]

Infrastructure in Australia in general is terrible.

[DROPS]

As abysmal as the resource planning and support at Airservices has been for the past [insert number here] of years, the airlines with their sneaky practices wear the bulk of the responsibility for this mess. Impossible rostering. Multiple MEL's. Outsourcing everything. Flight consolidations. Old fleets. Wet leases.

This is a nice distraction from the Joycification of the industry.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

This is a nice distraction from the Joycification of the industry.

‘Joycificstion’. How do we get that added to the dictionary?

[neville_nobody]

To be fair - it means 85% of delays aren’t due to ATC…

****ty infrastructure, outsourcing, lack of crew, weather.

Is 15% an unusual number? ATC delays into Perth are crazy at the moment (especially in busy days), but then they have to work with a single runway half the time, no high speed taxi-ways, half of the flights have to drag their arses down to ‘D’ to vacate. The infrastructure is terrible - at least in Perth

Yep and they’ve been talking about a new runway for at least 30 years. However the airport operator is of the belief it is not required because the airport isn’t at ‘capacity’.

Same for Melbourne how long have they been talking about a parallel runway?

The problem in aviation in Australia is it is full of monopolies. The airlines are the only market which is competitive and they get to pay for all the inefficiencies of the other suppliers.

[C441]

I'm guessing this15% figure is only the departure delays.
I wonder what the figure would be if the the inbound holding and speed reductions that subsequently lead to a further supposedly non-ATC delay were included.

[mates rates]

I like the way some Airline statistics are reported as late arrivals.If they depart on time but arrive late it’s generally either. ATC or weather related,not the airlines fault.

[Chronic Snoozer]

To be fair - it means 85% of delays aren’t due to ATC…

****ty infrastructure, outsourcing, lack of crew, weather.

Is 15% an unusual number? ATC delays into Perth are crazy at the moment (especially in busy days), but then they have to work with a single runway half the time, no high speed taxi-ways, half of the flights have to drag their arses down to ‘D’ to vacate. The infrastructure is terrible - at least in Perth

To meet future capacity demand, the new runway is expected to be operational between 2023 and 2032, subject to actual demand and approval.

Do not despair. New runway only a matter of years away. I believe the original timeline was 2023-2028. Any bets on a slide further to the right? The public are beholden to the private interests of PADG which is owned by institutional investors and super funds. This is why we see development of retail precincts such as Woolies, Costco and DFO in favour of pushing ahead with runways. The bucket has to be spilling over before another bucket is contemplated.

Perth Airport Master Plan download (https://www.perthairport.com.au/-/media/Files/CORPORATE/Planning-and-projects/Master-Plan/Master-Plan-2020/MP2020.pdf?rev=a4b6f3d1fc8b443abf69e8c8a084e017&hash=FBE952A0D01E7E62C57E0B91316778D3)

[airdualbleedfault]

To be fair - it means 85% of delays aren’t due to ATC…

****ty infrastructure, outsourcing, lack of crew, weather.

Is 15% an unusual number? ATC delays into Perth are crazy at the moment (especially in busy days), but then they have to work with a single runway half the time, no high speed taxi-ways, half of the flights have to drag their arses down to ‘D’ to vacate. The infrastructure is terrible - at least in Perth
I was going to call BS on the 15%, but as someone pouted out that's probably only departures, if it was arrivals it would be over 50% in Perth.
Gatwick handles roughly double the number of aircraft movements as Perth with 1 runway, far more complex and busy airspace and mostly worse weather. Yes I can hear all the BS excuses about high speed taxiways etc but really, 1 runway with high speed taxiways is better than 2?
Let's not try to polish a turd here, some bright sparks in ASA hierarchy have decided their KPIs are more important than moving air traffic so the ATC peeps have basically said "you give us x amount of controllers, we will handle x amount of aircraft", that comes from inside ASA.
Makes me laugh when the government gets on their pathetic little EV bandwagon meanwhile 100s of tons of avtur are being wasted each week and that's just into Perth

[Awol57]

I was going to call BS on the 15%, but as someone pouted out that's probably only departures, if it was arrivals it would be over 50% in Perth.
Gatwick handles roughly double the number of aircraft movements as Perth with 1 runway, far more complex and busy airspace and mostly worse weather. Yes I can hear all the BS excuses about high speed taxiways etc but really, 1 runway with high speed taxiways is better than 2?
Let's not try to polish a turd here, some bright sparks in ASA hierarchy have decided their KPIs are more important than moving air traffic so the ATC peeps have basically said "you give us x amount of controllers, we will handle x amount of aircraft", that comes from inside ASA.
Makes me laugh when the government gets on their pathetic little EV bandwagon meanwhile 100s of tons of avtur are being wasted each week and that's just into Perth
So what is the Perth solution? More controllers?

[thunderbird five]

More managers, obviously.

[thunderbird five]

Once upon a time, Airservices and the Canberra Rowing Club decided to engage in an annual boat race on Lake Burley Griffin. Both teams trained long and hard to reach their peak performance. On the big day, the rowing club won by a kilometer.

The Airservices team was rather discouraged by their loss and morale sagged. Senior management decided that a reason for the crushing defeat must be found, and so a project team was set up to investigate the problem and take appropriate action.

It was found that while the rowing club had eight people rowing and one person steering, Airservices had one person rowing and eight steering. Senior management accordingly hired consultants to study the team’s structure. For half a million dollars the consultants advised that the team needed to be better coordinated so that more effort went into rowing.

The new Airservices team consisted of four steering managers, the senior steering managers, one executive steering manager, and one rower. A performance appraisal system was set up to give the rower more incentive, and he was sent to courses run by the consultants so that he would feel empowered and enriched.

The next year the rowing club won by two kilometers. Airservices sacked the rower for poor performance, sold off the paddles and halted development of a new boat. The money saved was used as performance bonuses for senior management.

[ReportVisual]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

[Thirsty]

...Let's not try to polish a turd here, some bright sparks in ASA hierarchy have decided their KPIs are more important than moving air traffic so the ATC peeps have basically said "you give us x amount of controllers, we will handle x amount of aircraft", that comes from inside ASA.... PerthWrong KPI's.

[2b2]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

Haha. You were doing so well until you had to get "robust" n there! Good effort!

[missy]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

I'll refrain from asking, "Jase is that you?" but seriously, this is a safety critical system and your solution is to roster shifts controller more shifts on the basis that ASA has a robust fatigue management system. ASA and fatigue risk management system don't even belong in the same sentence.

The ASA fatigue risk management system was designed to find someone to sign off the residual risk potential
Lower Fatigue Risk for ATCs can be signed off by Shift Managers and System Supervisors (or higher)
Lower Medium Fatigue Risk can only be signed off by Unit Manager, Unit Tower Supervisor, ATC Line Manager and Operations Room Manager (or higher)
Higher Medium Fatigue Risk can only be signed off by Service Managers (or higher)
Higher Fatigue Potential can only be signed off by Northern / Southern Operations Managers (or higher).
[perhaps some older position titles but you and others will get the picture].

Someone will sign it off the risk to avoid a service continuity issue, or because their individual KPI's are affected.

The only thing that stops an ATC working every day of the year is a clause from the ATC Enterprise Agreement that says:
The maximum number of consecutive shifts worked, inclusive of additional duty or emergency duty, will be ten (10) shifts.

The only thing that stops an ATC working double or triple shifts is a clause from the ATC Enterprise Agreement that says:
With an employee’s consent, a rostered shift may be extended prior to the scheduled commencement time and/or beyond the nominal finishing time, provided that the total hours acquitted for the shift do not exceed ten (10) hours.

Each time the ATC Enterprise Agreement is up for discussion, AsA wants these and other clauses removed. The logic presented is the same as advocated by ReportVisual - "robust fatigue management system". In fact AsA would be very happy to delete the section titled "Hours of Work" in the ATC Enterprise Agreement and put it into an internal document, procedure or guide.

And the BTW, it is my understanding that CASA, as aviation regulator, didn't accept ASA's arguments that ASA had "robust fatigue management system".

[Maggie Island]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

Are you the same guy having a laugh in the Network EBA thread?

[Lead Balloon]

Being a bean-counter must be such a doddle.

We spend money on things but we want to spend less on those things (except us…) and get the same or better output. Some of those things are humans.

So, we need to get fewer humans to produce the same output as the current group of humans, or pay the current group of humans less to produce the same output. The ideal outcome is that we pay fewer humans, less, to get a better output. (Let’s be honest: The ideal outcome is that we pay them nothing.)

Fatigue is an impediment to the achievement of our ideal outcome. So, we’ll just spin it into an industrial relations bargaining chip used by the greedy and unscrupulous rather than a substantive risk to safety. Manoeuvre arrangements so that fatigue becomes a matter to be dealt with internally and privately, on an individual case-by-case basis, rather than having generally applicable and objective limits.

Come the year 1990, when we have pilot-less cockpits and controller-less ATC, we’ll shift our focus to the humans who maintain the equipment. There’s another bunch of greedy and unscrupulous workers who use fatigue as an industrial relations bargaining chip.

Eventually we’ll achieve nirvana, where the only thing we spend money on is us bean-counters.

Job done!

[12-47]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

Probably explains the strategy to RIS the age 55s, then bully out the remaining mature age controllers. Employer of choice.

[KRviator]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.Good on ya champ. I love it when people trot out the "You must do OT to man the business, your EBA says so..." Now go find the legal definition of "Reasonable overtime". I'll wait...

CityRail tried that bollocks on in Sydney in 2004 and again later years when they were in a similar boat - completely and utterly reliant on their crew working overtime to staff the normal roster. Crews were burning out and come EBA time, they said "You can stick your OT up your asre!". CityRail took them to court arguing they had to do reasonable OT and the courts found there was no acceptable definition of 'reasonable OT', the crew were contracted for 38H a week, and that was all they had to do. It wasn't their fault the network would collapse if they didn't work OT...

To the ASA guys and girls, I say this - Don't put your health or your relationship at risk trying to cover ASA's shortfall. You're no different to anyone else, you're just a number, and while I get that you take pride in what you do and want to keep us moving, if you choose to spend your RDO's at the beach with your family, and as a result I get "Clearance not available", I wouldn't care in the slightest. Your family comes first.

[sunnySA]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it.

It seems that many Sector Groups and Towers are doing exactly what you have suggesting. That and a whole lot more, and still the system is failing. ATCs are working additional shifts, working changes of shifts so much so that the average punter would be shocked by the number of additional shifts worked, the number of additional hours worked, the sequences of shifts worked, just to maintain a semblance of service continuity.

Originally Posted by airdualbleedfault ..."you give us x amount of controllers, we will handle x amount of aircraft" ...We have already seen this with BNE, MEL & SYD arrival rates, this is likely to be applied to the ENR sector groups, that is a reduction in traffic (perhaps 2018 traffic levels).

[le Pingouin]

"Sorry, I'm not fit for duty" is all you need to say if you get called. Sure, the extra money is nice but wears thin and gets tiring pretty quickly.

[Plazbot]

I'm guessing this15% figure is only the departure delays.
I wonder what the figure would be if the the inbound holding and speed reductions that subsequently lead to a further supposedly non-ATC delay were included.

That's an infrastructure delay. When 4 aircraft turn up at once that's 12 minutes of overall delay. 2, 4 and 6. Go and build 3 sets of parallels and away we go. Sequencing is not an ATC delay. It's scheduling and infrastructure.

[ScepticalOptomist]

That's an infrastructure delay. When 4 aircraft turn up at once that's 12 minutes of overall delay. 2, 4 and 6. Go and build 3 sets of parallels and away we go. Sequencing is not an ATC delay. It's scheduling and infrastructure.

What makes Australian infrastructure so inefficient vs other countries with the same runway configurations?

[Done and done]

What makes Australian infrastructure so inefficient vs other countries with the same runway configurations?

The crossing RWY configuration as utilised in YMML for example is not current practice at major airports around the world, if the money is available to build parallels this is done to significantly improve traffic flow.

The money, or the will to improve the situation in YMML apparently doesn't exist.

I believe you would discover that at other airports around the world with a similar configuration they would also have to wait for a landing aircraft to pass through the RWY intersection before they could depart an aircraft on the crossing RWY.

It's that simple I'm afraid.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Delays are awesome. It means people spend more time and money in the terminal where the real money is made in retail. Which is what the airport owners want. If you look at Perth, the government is running billion dollar surpluses so could easily sort out the infrastructure except the airport is privately owned. It's all very laborious and time consuming.

[missy]

What makes Australian infrastructure so inefficient vs other countries with the same runway configurations?
Examples please.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Examples please.

Of what? Airports that utilise only 1 runway or have intersecting runways that manage to move traffic far more efficiently than any here in Australia? Two off the top of my head - BOM and LGW.

[Done and done]

Of what? Airports that utilise only 1 runway or have intersecting runways that manage to move traffic far more efficiently than any here in Australia? Two off the top of my head - BOM and LGW.

With the rules that constrain us we do the best we can, my apologies if its not good enough for you.

Perhaps you could provide us the solution

[missy]

Of what? Airports that utilise only 1 runway or have intersecting runways that manage to move traffic far more efficiently than any here in Australia? Two off the top of my head - BOM and LGW.
LGW gets trotted as the beacon of all things single runway.

LGW 26L and 08R have a displaced threshold and taxiways that enter the runway prior to the landing threshold, so the departing is able to line up sooner than would be the case at eg MEL 16 B, or SYD 16R A1/B1/B2. Simple maths really as the aircraft is in position to roll as soon as the lander is vacating via the suitably spaced RETs. Gatwick has a declared capacity of 55 movements per hour and has effective ATFM tools to more easily switch between ARR and DEP biases.

BOM 27 also has a displaced threshold. Both 27 and 32 have a short distance to the runway intersection, this will give you higher movement rates than a 09/14 configuration.

Locations of the runways relative to the terminals is a factor. Another important consideration is the SID's. Do the departures have a left and right split? The application NAP can limit the movement rate as the spacing between successive departures needs to be increased. Rather than 1800m metres and airborne it becomes 2NM or more.

I recall getting a commendation for doing 55 movements per an hour on a single runway (16 before it became 16R), left for BN/CG, right for pretty much everything else.

Sydney gets unfairly compared to other parallel runway airports, give me 2 four thousand metre runways and terminals between the runways and see how well we do?

[DROPS]

Apples and Oranges. The debate has been going for 30 years. Investment in some good tools (reduced wake turbulence monitoring) , as well as having enough people for all the positions needed to be opened separately (no joining of APP/DEP/DIR etc )

​​​​​​How about artificial barriers to efficiencies? Sydney Cap - tie one hand behind your back!

[josephfeatherweight]

With the rules that constrain us we do the best we can, my apologies if its not good enough for you.

Perhaps you could provide us the solution

Yes, I understand the rules are the constraint. We need to change the rules to increase capacity and throughput. The 80 aircraft per hour cap at YSSY is a good example of an easy fix.
We know most of you are doing the best you can within the constraints.
The result (unnecessary delays) are NOT good enough for me.

[Global Aviator]

Which airports do better?

Manila for one. 06/24 the main 13/31 the cross, haven’t googled the movements but it really is amazing.

Bali & Phuket also do a pretty good job considering 1 runway and mix of small to supers.

Then just look at the efficiency of controlling in places like Jakarta and many places around SE Asia (just not Singapore).

[DROPS]

Yes, I understand the rules are the constraint. We need to change the rules to increase capacity and throughput. The 80 aircraft per hour cap at YSSY is a good example of an easy fix.
We know most of you are doing the best you can within the constraints.
The result (unnecessary delays) are NOT good enough for me.

That makes it a 'you' problem. I wish you luck.

[Lead Balloon]

The headline of the article should really have been: "Airport privatisation and pretending ATC is a commercial business were really bad ideas for Australians." Subtitle: "(Unless you're milking airports and Airservices for millions.)"

[DROPS]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-29/airservices-australia-air-traffic-controllers-flight-delays/103394592

[sunnySA]

ABC 7:30 should be the highest rating show of the year, but sadly this article is unlikely to be lead item, and any interest won’t last longer than a night.

[Cleared For A Coffee]

With this in mind, what’s stopping them recruiting international ATCOs?

[Pearly White]

Is there an upper age limit for ATCOs? Might give it a go myself.

[DROPS]

With this in mind, what’s stopping them recruiting international ATCOs?

Australian Salary is uncompetitive.

And reputation precedes the organisation internationally.

It is also not on the list of wanted vocations for an immigration visa.

And, experienced ATCO's are in demand worldwide.

[DROPS]

Is there an upper age limit for ATCOs? Might give it a go myself.


If you haven't done it before, about 30.

[missy]

With this in mind, what’s stopping them recruiting international ATCOs?
Several things comes to mind, Overseas ANSPs are recruiting (hence the flow of ATCs is likely to be the other way). 457 visas are no longer available. International ATCs need to learn the "Australian way" as Australia is far from ICAO compliant and we have some orphaned equipment that no-one else uses. Most foreign recruited ATCs have returned back home at some point. And since this is a rumour network, to work with the new OneSky you need to be an Australian citizen.

I know of 3 ex-ASA ATCs who are International ATCs (in the real sense) who have applied to return and AsA have marked their applications - UNSUCCESSFUL.
Your application has been assessed ... and unfortunately you have been deemed unsuccessful to progress to the next stage.

.

[le Pingouin]

No age limit but statistically the older you are the harder it gets to pass - we all get mentally slower and less flexible with age. You at 40 will find it harder than you at 25 but maybe easier than someone else at 25.That said it's you being measured against a standard based on nothing other than you demonstrating your abilities.

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Australian Salary is uncompetitive.

And reputation precedes the organisation internationally.

It is also not on the list of wanted vocations for an immigration visa.

And, experienced ATCO's are in demand worldwide.

Thats sort of my point though, if there is such a shortage, why is it not on the ‘wanted vocations’ list?

I’m sure there would be some takers if the package was right, regardless of the fact that pretty much everywhere on the planet is recruiting at the moment.

[Cleared For A Coffee]

Several things comes to mind, Overseas ANSPs are recruiting (hence the flow of ATCs is likely to be the other way). 457 visas are no longer available. International ATCs need to learn the "Australian way" as Australia is far from ICAO compliant and we have some orphaned equipment that no-one else uses. Most foreign recruited ATCs have returned back home at some point. And since this is a rumour network, to work with the new OneSky you need to be an Australian citizen.

I know of 3 ex-ASA ATCs who are International ATCs (in the real sense) who have applied to return and AsA have marked their applications - UNSUCCESSFUL.


.

Wherever you go in the world you have to learn the ‘local way’ of doing things, that isn’t idiosyncratic to Aus.

Every ANSP on the planet is short at the minute, there’s only so much papering over the cracks you can do. It’s a romantic idea to ab-initio recruit your way out of it, but it takes years. This is the same issue everywhere is having right now.

[10JQKA]

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401554001/air-traffic-controllers-apply-for-usa-green-card-/

[missy]

There is currently a HUGE shortage of Aircraft Controllers in the USA, and several different type of USA companies can use your services!
The demand for Air Traffic Controllers in the USA will only get worse over the coming years. Now is the time to start your career in America!
If you are interested in working in the USA, you can do so by getting a USA Green Card under the NIW-EB2 program.
Now you are just teasing. UK advertises and now a pathway to USA.
AUKUS for ATCs!!

[DROPS]

Would anyone living in Australia seriously contemplate moving to the USA right now?

And what's more, working at the FAA?

Now if you reversed the offer ..

[thunderbird five]

Working at the FAA: https://www.faa.gov/jobs/diversity_inclusionPeople with DisabilitiesIndividuals with targeted or "severe" disabilities are the most under-represented segment of the Federal workforce. The People with Disabilities Program (PWD) ensures that people with disabilities have equal Federal employment opportunities. The FAA actively recruits, hires, promotes, retains, develops and advances people with disabilities.

Targeted Disabilities
Targeted disabilities are those disabilities that the Federal government, as a matter of policy, has identified for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring. They include hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, epilepsy, severe intellectual disability, psychiatric disability and dwarfism.

[Stationair8]

What about Tourette Syndrome?

[framer]

If you haven't done it before, about 30.
Ha yeah I’ve never done any controlling but I can definitely imagine you’re right! I’ve often thought that as I age my increasing experience neatly counters my declining cognitive speed.

[StudentInDebt]

LGW gets trotted as the beacon of all things single runway.

LGW 26L and 08R have a displaced threshold and taxiways that enter the runway prior to the landing threshold, so the departing is able to line up sooner than would be the case at eg MEL 16 B, or SYD 16R A1/B1/B2. Simple maths really as the aircraft is in position to roll as soon as the lander is vacating via the suitably spaced RETs. Gatwick has a declared capacity of 55 movements per hour and has effective ATFM tools to more easily switch between ARR and DEP biases.

I don’t get this argument, you don’t get cleared to enter the runway at LGW until the landing traffic has passed you, as the 26L threshold is displaced surely there is a longer period between the traffic passing (at 200ft) to them vacating the runway making it comparable to passing at B/C and vacating on G (for rwy16). From a pilot perspective, there no reason I can see the an aircraft cannot be in the lined up position when using B/C. The abject failure of Australian airports to introduced proper high-speed exits to match the landing performance of both medium and heavy aircraft may compound things. I’m not an air traffic controller but surely restricting the use of E in single runway configuration would help the flow?

[macbe327]

I know of 3 ex-ASA ATCs who are International ATCs (in the real sense) who have applied to return and AsA have marked their applications - UNSUCCESSFUL.

.

they also said:“We wish you every success with your future career endeavours.”

:rolleyes:

[Plazbot]

To be fair - it means 85% of delays aren’t due to ATC…

****ty infrastructure, outsourcing, lack of crew, weather.

Is 15% an unusual number? ATC delays into Perth are crazy at the moment (especially in busy days), but then they have to work with a single runway half the time, no high speed taxi-ways, half of the flights have to drag their arses down to ‘D’ to vacate. The infrastructure is terrible - at least in Perth

I appreciate the breakdown but in my opinion, ATC caused delays are real delays not the bull**** the captain claims when they have to hold because everyone turns up at once but is the that ANSP can't deliver the service.

15% to me is an absolute disgrace that is being filtered down for blame to the Controller on the floor. That is just unfair and devious on behalf of management.

Australian ATC is in my opinion one of the best on earth, training, safety management, expedition but all based around what the person at the console is permitted to do.

I've been out of dodge for some time and am very aware of what my ex brothers and sisters have to put up with. I'm one that since the Tongan auto mail said no more ED has enjoyed my days off. You can't expect an allegedly first world system to run based on a dice roll.

Hey, I've got the same issues in my current employ. I'm sure AsA big bigs are reading this. Let's chat. PM for off the record attempts to help each other.

[Plazbot]

I was going to call BS on the 15%, but as someone pouted out that's probably only departures, if it was arrivals it would be over 50% in Perth.
Gatwick handles roughly double the number of aircraft movements as Perth with 1 runway, far more complex and busy airspace and mostly worse weather. Yes I can hear all the BS excuses about high speed taxiways etc but really, 1 runway with high speed taxiways is better than 2?
Let's not try to polish a turd here, some bright sparks in ASA hierarchy have decided their KPIs are more important than moving air traffic so the ATC peeps have basically said "you give us x amount of controllers, we will handle x amount of aircraft", that comes from inside ASA.
Makes me laugh when the government gets on their pathetic little EV bandwagon meanwhile 100s of tons of avtur are being wasted each week and that's just into Perth

Oh blah blah. Gatwick is a serious operation no doubt. Go and research their wake turbulence standards. Add a unit that specifically sequences for TMA driven holds. It isn't the same. Not saying it shouldn't be but it's not.

I've mentioned before and I'm pretty much commiting returning suicide (I'm on the black list) but this bull**** that Jason throws up about we have enough ATCs is misleading in the extreme. Group numbers might be 15,1, 13.8, 20.5. That in AsA ideal adds up to 50,4. No it doesn't. For every point something, that is 1. If you need a console for 1 minute, that's an entire shift.

Reading the ongoing TIBA NIOTAMs I'm not involved but I was last time. Nothing has changed in 15 years. The only constant is Jason. I know him, good bloke, destroying the company. He got his head start brown nosing in 95/96 when he relieved as the centre manager in Melbourne. Did about 5 minutes on the tools then was indoctrinated by the decade of fools that ran the place.

I won't be one to comment on how to fix this. I have ideas but noone cares what operational people think.

Good luck.

[Plazbot]

The obvious solution is to roster the overtime the same way as other shifts. The EBA stipulates that reasonable overtime should be completed, I don't see why controllers should not do 1-2 additional shifts every 2-3 weeks. This is normal in other companies and it only seems to be the controllers that have a problem with it. ASA has a robust fatigue management system and therefor the constant complaining about fatigue is absolute rubbish.

The airlines and customers should not have to face delays just because the controllers don't want to play their part in the system. We need a clean out and those who don't want to support the company should just go.

Clown. Read point 5. 'ot for any other reason'

I've been in for near on 30 years. My days off are days off.

I note you've popped up right before CA negotiations. Interesting.

[Plazbot]

What makes Australian infrastructure so inefficient vs other countries with the same runway configurations?
Really? How many triple '/quad independent parallels are there in Australia? Clown.

[Plazbot]

Several things comes to mind, Overseas ANSPs are recruiting (hence the flow of ATCs is likely to be the other way). 457 visas are no longer available. International ATCs need to learn the "Australian way" as Australia is far from ICAO compliant and we have some orphaned equipment that no-one else uses. Most foreign recruited ATCs have returned back home at some point. And since this is a rumour network, to work with the new OneSky you need to be an Australian citizen.

I know of 3 ex-ASA ATCs who are International ATCs (in the real sense) who have applied to return and AsA have marked their applications - UNSUCCESSFUL.


.
We in the Middle East have a drawer full of Australian applications. It's like 2008 all over again. History repeating, the same Company that created the package in 08/09 has been engaged to create a realistic package to attract talent today.

[RAC/OPS]

I'm guessing this15% figure is only the departure delays.
I wonder what the figure would be if the the inbound holding and speed reductions that subsequently lead to a further supposedly non-ATC delay were included.

We’re probably doing them a favour by absorbing some of the delay getting onto the gate because the handling agents haven’t got their act together.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Really? How many triple '/quad independent parallels are there in Australia? Clown.

No need to be childish - was a genuine question in regards to the INFRASTRUCTURE we have - not the people.

Having flown to many airports both in and out of Australia it seems as if we do less with the same infrastructure - ie parallel runway ops in BNE / MELs crossing runways vs overseas equivalents. I was curious why.

Us “clowns” who use ATC as a service everyday are merely trying to understand the aviation system we use as best we can.

When compared to most of the western world our overall system SEEMS inefficient, causing the frustration you see posted in these forums.

[DROPS]

No need to be childish - was a genuine question in regards to the INFRASTRUCTURE we have - not the people.

Having flown to many airports both in and out of Australia it seems as if we do less with the same infrastructure - ie parallel runway ops in BNE / MELs crossing runways vs overseas equivalents. I was curious why.

Us “clowns” who use ATC as a service everyday are merely trying to understand the aviation system we use as best we can.

When compared to most of the western world our overall system SEEMS inefficient, causing the frustration you see posted in these forums.

"Seems" is a casual uninformed opinion. Some folks here who are informed are telling you what's what.

​​​​​The solutions to improving efficiency are not mysterious. They do however require people and infrastructure, something the smartest guys in the rooms of Australia always seems unwilling to accept. My tip is expect more of the same, accept it and enjoy the beaches and the clean air.

[ScepticalOptomist]

"Seems" is a casual uninformed opinion. Some folks here who are informed are telling you what's what.

​​​

Fair enough. My opinions are always casual, and after 30 years in aviation, I’m not sure “uninformed” fits, however I’ll let ATC worry about the infrastructure and just enjoy my time in the jet. 👍

[C441]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/652x488/image_3_2_2024_at_4_54_pm_36217b043f3a79d8bbf116fe3677f605c4 8d758d.jpg
Does this count as a delay? QF95, 2nd Feb.

[10JQKA]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/652x488/image_3_2_2024_at_4_54_pm_36217b043f3a79d8bbf116fe3677f605c4 8d758d.jpg
Does this count as a delay? QF95, 2nd Feb.

Looks like the old navigating around the uncontrolled part of the 11% of the world's airspace managed by AUS trick ?

[ER_BN]

Thanks 10JQKA,

For minute there I thought it might have been the abbreviated Macquarie Island transition onto ML 34 so they could have a long final....

Your "continuous descent" application is very impressive!!

[Hoosten]

The only constant is Jason. I know him, good bloke

​​​​​​​Doubt that will get you off the black list.

[ER_BN]

Doubt that will get you off the black list.

I will leave Plasbot to explain his true feelings about the CEO of AsA.

However I notice the words you chose were embedded in a paragraph that preceded words describing Jason as destroying the company and easily led by idiots or was it fools; doesn’t really matter as there are plenty of both were in / still are in AsA. Hardly complimentary but?

20 years is a long time to destroy air traffic control in Australia.

What? Oh the super…..

Pretty clever really stretching it out that long?

[missy]

Doubt that will get you off the black list.
Funny that no-one is denying the existence of a black list.

[Hoosten]

However I notice the words you chose were embedded in a paragraph that preceded words describing Jason as destroying the company

How Plasbaby embeds the word good bloke amongst all the other words is beyond me, don't think it matters what else he wrote amongst that lie :}​​​​​​​

Funny that no-one is denying the existence of a black list.

I doubt that Jase would deny it, he couldn't care less. Jase is a hater

[ER_BN]

Hoosten,

Yes, I had considered “good bloke” sarcasm and I won’t argue with anything you have written.

Regardless of all opinions expressed of Jason over the years including the career advice from Bill Heffernan, we should all remember there has always been people responsible for Jason’s decision making and leadership. We should always remember that in discussing the current woeful state of Airservices Australia.

In my opinion, (and it is only that) Airservices in 2024 is in a far worse position than 2004, when it was still basking in the glow of a generally successful implementation of TAAATS Eurocat.

Australian aviation has lost two decades with regards to improving efficiency, innovation and safety from its air navigation service provider.

Airservices’ culture, corporate knowledge, technical knowledge and staffing is in a parlous state. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

There are quite a few people with humility who would be willing to help repair Airservices but that would be only after one of the following: a/. comprehensive investigation by the NACC, a royal commission or at the very least a wide ranging parliamentary inquiry.

I do not see any of those three happening.

The “black list” applies to more than just workface controllers.

No one I've spoken to sees it getting any better!

[DROPS]

One wonders just how close to implosion things are.
In Sydney especially and Brisbane especially.

Maybe that will finally be the impetus for government to step in and act rather than shying away from the problem.

[Lookleft]

Now we get a story that Airservices are not meeting their obligations with RFFS. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/firefighter-airport-shortage-sunshine-coast/103427882

At what point after the wheels have fallen off does the whole decaying infrastructure vehicle crash into the tree?

[ER_BN]

Lookleft,

Even better the article identifies CASA had no idea (god, how normal that sounds) about the issue until the firies union informed them.

Appears to be a surveillance failure here. What a surprise!

[10JQKA]

tiba in atc
tiba in arff
tiba unions
tiba media
tiba atsb
tiba in ansp management
tiba in regulator
tiba in dept
tiba minister
tiba fed gov

[neville_nobody]

Does this count as a delay? QF95, 2nd Feb.

ASA should be sent the fuel bill for that.

Meanwhile the government bangs on about climate change and aviation yet some of the longest flights in the world can't even track direct because our government can't staff their own ATC system that they charge everyone for.

[ER_BN]

tiba in atc
tiba in arff
tiba in ansp management
tiba in regulator
tiba in dept
tiba minister
tiba fed gov

You forgot one TIBA in ATSB, that’s the only excuse for the joke of a report re MNG..no wonder there is no coroner’s inquiry…

[ER_BN]

ASA should be sent the fuel bill for that.

Meanwhile the government bangs on about climate change and aviation yet some of the longest flights in the world can't even track direct because our government can't staff their own ATC system that they charge everyone for.

Neville, quite right! However if you look at the traffic in that airspace off the east coast during a TIBA doggo shift 1230-1830 last week on FR24 Replay there were a hell of a lot of jets going straight through the airspace and not going around like QFA095…. 1730 - 1830 very interesting….raises a whole lot of questions that will be asked on the TIBA thread

[10JQKA]

Neville, quite right! However if you look at the traffic in that airspace off the east coast during a TIBA doggo shift 1230-1830 last week on FR24 Replay there were a hell of a lot of jets going straight through the airspace and not going around like QFA095…. 1730 - 1830 very interesting….raises a whole lot of questions that will be asked on the TIBA thread

Fixed tiba list. Answers to questions navbl due tiba in all entities.

[Hoosten]

When people like RS survive as long as he has in ASA it tells you how putrid the organisation is. One thing saved Jase's neck after Broderick's reveiw, covid. Even if he goes in disgrace now, he's pulled in millions and will laugh at you all. The culture is a disease there, it's like multiple myeloma, it can go on 20 years. Government will never do anything about it because they simply do not understand ATC and never will. It's like voo-doo land.

ER BN, I'm the most cynical and sarcastic bastard in the world, I didn't pick Plasbaby's comment as sarcastic.

[MediaFlight]

Looks like the old navigating around the uncontrolled part of the 11% of the world's airspace managed by AUS trick ?

​​​​​Just to clarify - how much extra fuel, time and other costs would a longer route like that add?

[neville_nobody]

It looks like approximately an extra 500nm over the great circle route. So at least an hour flight time. Only a handful of people would really know what the actual cost of that is.

[DROPS]

Now we get a story that Airservices are not meeting their obligations with RFFS. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/firefighter-airport-shortage-sunshine-coast/103427882

At what point after the wheels have fallen off does the whole decaying infrastructure vehicle crash into the tree?

Co-incidence or delicious (intentional?) timing, CH9 ran a puff piece on Airservices Firies on the weekend.

[10JQKA]

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/firefighters-union-sunshine-coast-planes-landing-fire-crews#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17073164383734&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com


On Tuesday, the Senate voted down a Coalition push for a committee to examine “the ongoing dysfunction in air space management”.

Go figure

[Lead Balloon]

And if the Coalition were in government and Labor had pushed for the same examination, it would have been voted down.

That, children, is why CASA, ATSB and Airservices (among many other Commonwealth government agencies) are basket cases.

[MagnumPI]

Now we get a story that Airservices are not meeting their obligations with RFFS. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-06/firefighter-airport-shortage-sunshine-coast/103427882

At what point after the wheels have fallen off does the whole decaying infrastructure vehicle crash into the tree?

All OK folks, there's nothing to see here. After all, the RFFS guys and gals at Ballina have been on their own watching RPT CTAF shenanigans for years with no tower and there's no smoking aircraft that they've had to extinguish...yet. She'll be right!

Just a friendly reminder on what's been promised in writing and then delayed, so far:

Ballina CTA: November 2023 > November 2024 > June 2025
Ballina TWR: June 2024 > June 2025 > November 2025

[Lead Balloon]

Don't worry, the SFIS will prevent any accident at Ballina.

Oh wait ... I forgot the SFIS is frequently NOTAMed unavailable.

Lucky the roulette wheel is pretty big.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Frequently heard around the corridors of power in Canberra,

"Minister/Sir/Ma'am, the peasants are revolting",

"You're telling me! All they do is complain about service delivery".

[neville_nobody]

On Tuesday, the Senate voted down a Coalition push for a committee to examine “the ongoing dysfunction in air space management”.


"A basic rule of government is never look into anything you don't have to. And never set up an inquiry unless you know in advance what its findings will be."

[C441]

It's borderline scary how close to the truth "Yes Minister" and "Utopia" are….:)

[missy]

And if the Coalition were in government and Labor had pushed for the same examination, it would have been voted down.

That, children, is why CASA, ATSB and Airservices (among many other Commonwealth government agencies) are basket cases.
And why CASA, ATSB and Airservices need to be brought back into the Department with direct ministerial oversight.

[DROPS]

And why CASA, ATSB and Airservices need to be brought back into the Department with direct ministerial oversight.

OMG! You mean a government actually governing?

And having accountability?!?

Very courageous Minister!

[kiwi grey]

And why CASA, ATSB and Airservices need to be brought back into the Department with direct ministerial oversight.

Never!
One of the principal reasons bodies are set up as quangos / government-owned corporations is so that the politicians can avoid responsibility.
When stuff goes wrong, the Minister can blame the management and/or the Board, while pointing out that they are legally independent and it would be most improper for the Minister to direct them on an operational matter.
If the brown stuff really hits the whirly thing, the 'outraged' Minister can fire the Chair or the whole Board whilst weeping copious buckets of crocodile tears about how upset, disappointed and/or horrified he/she is.

[ER_BN]

And why CASA, ATSB and Airservices need to be brought back into the Department with direct ministerial oversight.

ROTFALMAO!

What a lot of naive facile twaddle!

So how did Robodebt occur? The responsible departments were not QUANGOs!

Watch Nemesis and the responsible minister (ScoMo) say "Oh had I been told it was illegal...blah blah blah....

I don't think Lead Balloon was specifically choosing QUANGOs....

Sigh!

[Lead Balloon]

Correct. I wasn't.

Defence is a basket case, Services Australia is a basket case, Veterans' Affairs is a basket case ....

[ER_BN]

And if the Coalition were in government and Labor had pushed for the same examination, it would have been voted down.

That, children, is why CASA, ATSB and Airservices (among many other Commonwealth government agencies) are basket cases.

The protection racket continues in Senate Estimates Monday 12 February 1245-1315 (just before the senators’ lunch break…)

[DROPS]

The protection racket continues in Senate Estimates Monday 12 February 1245-1315 (just before the senators’ lunch break…)

This is the problem.

But damned if I know the solution.

Apart from maybe getting rid of the pretend corporate structure, a pretend board, and bringing it back as one department with technocrats running it instead of flim flam shiny suits.

[missy]

The protection racket continues in Senate Estimates Monday 12 February 1245-1315 (just before the senators’ lunch break…)
ASA 30 minutes, CASA 45 minutes, ATSB 10 minutes.

Perhaps one of the Senators can ask why ASA and CASA are so far behind in publishing their FOIs, and ATSB's reports take so long.

Safety, affordable safety and statistics.

[ER_BN]

Coalition push for legislation to force airlines to pay for delays (https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/coalition-pushes-bill-that-could-make-airlines-pay-for-delays-20240209-p5f3rn.html)

In the SMH / Age this evening. This would put the cat amongst the pigeons , ie airlines paying passengers for Airservices caused delays….

That could finally cause an encouragement to fix AsA.

As per Voltaire: pour encourager les autres

Figuratively speaking - “Time to shoot the admiral, Albo!”

[missy]

and the Committee members
Senator Glenn Sterle, Chair - WA, ALP
Senator the Hon Matthew Canavan, Deputy Chair - QLD, The Nationals
Senator Linda White - VIC, ALP
Senator Peter Whish-Wilson - TAS, Australian Greens
Senator Raff Ciccone - VIC, ALP
Senator Gerard Rennick - QLD, Liberal National Party of Queensland

[Lead Balloon]

This is the problem.

But damned if I know the solution.

Apart from maybe getting rid of the pretend corporate structure, a pretend board, and bringing it back as one department with technocrats running it instead of flim flam shiny suits.To solve the problem we have to deal with the cause. The cause of the problem is the major political party duopoly which has gutted the integrity of the public sector. While ever they take turns in government, they both win, and neither has any interest in exposing the chronic dysfunction and waste in the public sector. Things like Robodebt are SOP, not an aberration.

[neville_nobody]

In the SMH / Age this evening. This would put the cat amongst the pigeons , ie airlines paying passengers for Airservices caused delays…. That could finally cause an encouragement to fix AsA.

Which is exactly why the delay penalties will never come about. It will open a can of worms that will expose the airports and ATC in this country so that is why it will never happen. Governments will talk about it publicly until they realise how much money they will be on the hook for in terms of penalties every year due to their woeful service delivery and it will all magically disappear.

What will been even funnier to watch will be if the Coalition gets into power then one of these committee members becomes the Transport minister.

[missy]

In December 2023 one in six delays were attributed to Airservices.
In January 2024 one in eight delays were attributed to Airservices.
Trumpeting from the AWB
Airservices program to minimise variation to our published services remains the key priority for the Airservices team to deliver month-on-month improvement.
Note the wording, minimise not eliminate. Surely the target is zero.

[KRviator]

Flight chaos caused by two air traffic controllers failing to show up to work
The true reason for widespread chaos at airports around the country with mass flight cancellations and disruptions has been revealed.

The true reason for widespread chaos at airports around the country with mass flight cancellations and disruptions has been revealed - two members of staff not turning up to work. Two air traffic controllers who failed to report for duty at Sydney Airport on Monday are behind the disruptions.

Due to the two staff members’ absence, Airservices requested a ground delay program from 3pm until the airport’s curfew at 11pm.This led to Qantas flights experiencing an average delay of 72 minutes, while Virgin flights were delayed roughly 95 minutes

The government agency responsible for staff, AirServices Australia, was grilled today by Liberal Senator Bridget McKenzie who did not hold back. Senator McKenzie said it was “incredible that two people don’t show up for work and the entire country is shut down”. “When Sydney experiences disruption, the whole country suffers and international travellers are also missing connections as a result of this,” she said. “I want to understand your response to this?” she asked AirServices CEO Jason Harfield. Mr Harfield said two air traffic controllers had called in sick, which had resulted in the slowdown in flight movements in and out of Sydney.

Despite having “948 operational air traffic controllers”, Mr Harfield said they had not been able to replace the two who were sick on Monday. He conceded flight delays directly attributable to Airservices had worsened since the Covid pandemic, when about 140 experienced air traffic controllers were given the option of early retirement.

Mr Harfield also faced questions about a workplace survey undertaken by Elizabeth Broderick, which showed bullying and harassment before Senator McKenzie challenged Mr Harfield to rate his own performance given his “million-dollar salary”.

He suggested a “B”.

A spokespesron for AirServices Australia told news.com.au “safety is always our first priority”. “Airservices is enhancing its service resilience by recruiting and training more than 100 new air traffic controllers (ATCs) nationwide since 2020,” the spokesperson said. “More than 70 new ATCs are due in FY2024 and a further 80 ATCs are projected to join us each year moving forward to add further depth to our ATC rosters.”Source (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/flight-chaos-caused-by-two-air-traffic-controllers-failing-to-show-up-to-work/news-story/1049a663a6e0c13391ebcba4610d3cd3)"70 Controllers "are due""... That's a forecast. Ask BoM how often they get theirs wrong. Or ask an actual ATC'er how many graduate from the school and then take to get trained in each position?

As I said before, if you're an ATCO, don't work OT, don't come in at short notice to cover another absence if you haven't had a good rest, don't extend your shift to cover your relief not making it in. Do your regular rostered hours and not a second more. Go home to your spouse on time, take the kids for a walk to the park and if you need to, take a personal day to make sure you can go to your kids soccer grand final. The system may be broke, but it is not your responsibility to fix. Look after yourself and your family and leave work behind when you get in your car. Let us deal with the delays and diversions and cancellations.

[Lead Balloon]

Airservices Australia said safety is always the services’ first priority.

“We have temporarily reduced traffic throughput to manage flights safely within the capacity available,” it said.Then reduce the capacity available to zero so we'll have perfect safety.

The spin is that none of Airservices' shortcomings have any safety impact. CASA is contributing to the spin. ATSB? Who cares.

If, for example, the absence of SFIS at Ballina has no safety consequence, then it should be abandoned completely, as should the pretence that there'll be any ATC there any time soon.

[ReportVisual]

It is obvious to everyone that this is organized. Sydney had only 2 shifts to cover and no one would agree to reasonable overtime as required in the EBA.

As I said before, if you're an ATCO, don't work OT, don't come in at short notice to cover another absence if you haven't had a good rest, don't extend your shift to cover your relief not making it in

Air Services needs to start motivating those who do not enough over time by rejecting pay scale increases and leave requests.

[KRviator]

It is obvious to everyone that this is organized. Sydney had only 2 shifts to cover and no one would agree to reasonable overtime as required in the EBA.
Air Services needs to start motivating those who do not enough over time by rejecting pay scale increases and leave requests.Could it be that everyone in the TCU has been doing OT to keep the place moving and they are burnt out and simply said FU? Time you read the tea leaves and understand that we would prefer a mentally prepared and well rested ATCO on the console than one who is there because they're being forced to work due to system shortages and an EA that says "You must do OT". While you're at it, perhaps you could answer my question above about what the courts have held "Overtime" or "reasonable overtime" to be - and whether you can be compelled to work beyond your ordinary-time hours on your RDO's.

Even if it was organized - and I don't believe for a second it is even though they'd have my full support if that was the case! - so what? Overtime hours are not ordinary time hours, they're voluntary, and even if you did try to enforce a Controller to do OT, they're still within their rights to refuse any particular OT shift if it doesn't suit them. The fact they're sooo short of staff they couldn't fill it, even with OT payments should be a pretty good indicator of just how short they are.

Speaking from experience, someone is always after OT, even if it's the graveyard shift. That no one took not one, but two shifts, speaks volumes.

[DROPS]

It is obvious to everyone that this is organized. Sydney had only 2 shifts to cover and no one would agree to reasonable overtime as required in the EBA.



Air Services needs to start motivating those who do not enough over time by rejecting pay scale increases and leave requests.

You are a troll. ATCO's cant do any more overtime than they are already as they are already breaching Airservices own FRMS. They are tired, making mistakes and falling asleep, as evidenced in Senate Estimates. Sydney in particular have been royally screwed around by the on again/off again, delayed, postponed (soon to be cancelled) transfer of SY APP to Melbourne. Any wonder nobody wants to transfer there?

Stop being a phoney apologist troll for the incompetent - you just look ridiculous.

[DROPS]

If in any doubt about how much the government have had enough of Harfield-Town.... (12 Feb Estimates Videos)


https://bfpca.org.au/estimates/

[Thirsty]

The Guardian has a few words to report on this yesterday
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/12/flight-disruption-nationwide-caused-by-two-absent-sydney-air-traffic-controllers-senate-hears

"The opposition senator Bridget McKenzie opened questioning of the agency about active operational disruptions at Sydney airport’s control tower on Monday."

"McKenzie asked Harfield what his pay package was, and he replied it was about $950,000 a year.“You’re taking the rope and running as hard and fast as you can with your million dollar salary whilst you are presiding over an absolute sh1tshow, let’s be frank,” McKenzie said, as she and other senators questioned why, after five years as CEO, his term was being considered for extension."

Mincing her words a little? Maybe not...
Curious if her flight was delayed?

I recall the time when sitting members of parliament were shuffled along the goat track between Canberra and Sydney in chauffeur driven Commonwealth Cars due to 'some difficulty in getting flights', and now we have a wide two-lane (each way) concrete freeway via Gouldburn all the way as a direct result. An elegant solution?

[Alpha Whiskey Bravo]

I saw it last night. Harfield HAS to go!

[missy]

In December 2023 one in six delays were attributed to Airservices.
In January 2024 one in eight delays were attributed to Airservices.
Airservices have stated that pre-COVID the delays were something like one in 10.
Either Airservices is taking a hit for something outside their control - i.e. scheduling, poor airport and apron design, weather or it really is a Bridget (S**T SHOW).

How can anyone think 1 in 10 is acceptable? Shows a real lack of focus on service excellence. For 1 in 10, then I suggest the Terminal Control Units in BNE, MEL and SYD need more staff so that there is sufficient staff to cover any unplanned absences without invoking Overtime. Too often the ATFM Daily Plan says Reduced Staffing (XFactor Reason: Staffing) and therefore lower movement rates directly attributed to AsA poor management and resource planning. Lower movement rates = less income for AsA. I guess the Cost Benefit Analysis indicates the cost of more staff is > the lost income.

[Angle of Attack]

Nice just copped a 45 min delay for takeoff in MEL today due to single runway ops. This country is a joke, pathetic joke. Especially when they line up a heavy with an aircraft on final at 1000ft and cause a go around, which ads another 10 mins to the departure delay. Not a slur on ATC but a complete slur on Airservices they are a complete disaster, worse a completely incompetent bunch of idiots.

[Angle of Attack]

I now specifically mention Airservices Australia for any ATC delays on the PA, mentioning they are the government agency metering arrivals into the airports.

[DROPS]

Nice just copped a 45 min delay for takeoff in MEL today due to single runway ops. This country is a joke, pathetic joke. Especially when they line up a heavy with an aircraft on final at 1000ft and cause a go around, which ads another 10 mins to the departure delay. Not a slur on ATC but a complete slur on Airservices they are a complete disaster, worse a completely incompetent bunch of idiots.
True. But still we choose to live here. So must still be good overall.

[sunnySA]

February (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/airservices-australia-releases-february-australian-aviation-network-overview/)

A changing narrative.
In February, the service impact due to Airservices’ capacity constraints was at its lowest level in ten months affecting just 1.3 per cent of all flights. Where GDP periods were implemented, eight per cent of ground delay periods were attributable to Airservices. Additional layers of resilience and flexibility continue to be built into the air traffic services operating model to deliver month-on-month improvements. This includes our recruitment program, training system improvements, refining traffic management processes ​​​...

Does "refining traffic management processes" mean nil TIBA?

Avalon
13 events, 34 hours.
B864/23 REVIEW B858/23
AVALON (YMAV) TWR HR OF SER AMD
DAILY 2200-0100 0200-0700
FROM 11 272004 TO 02 251200

AVALON TWR ATS NOT AVBL DUE OPERATIONAL RESTRICTIONS
AVALON CLASS D AIRSPACE BECOMES CLASS G FROM SFC TO 700FT AND
CLASS E FROM 700FT TO 2500FT AS PER EN ROUTE SUP AUSTRALIA (ERSA)
AVALON - ATS AIRSPACE - OUTSIDE TWR HR
FIS AVBL MELBOURNE CENTRE 135.70
COMMON TFC ADVISORY FREQ (CTAF) 120.1
SFC TO 2500FT AMSL
FROM 02 252000 TO 03 031200
DAILY 2000-2200 0100-0200 0700-1200

29 days, x 3 events per day = 87 events.
29 days, x 8 hours per day = 232 hours.

[etz]

A black list? No way! Oh, wait......

[sunnySA]

March (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Australian-Aviation-Network-Overview-March-2024.pdf)

A changing narrative.
The improving trend in air traffic management outcomes was maintained over the last two months. In March, Airservices attributed capacity constraints affected 1.3 per cent of flights. Where GDP periods were implemented, four per cent of ground delay periods and one per cent of cancellations were attributable to Airservices, the lowest level in twelve months.

The consistency of air traffic service provision improved in March 2024. The overall variations to published services reduced by 80 per cent compared to the average trend in the previous 12 months, following concentrated efforts to maximise resource availability to protect peak demand periods. However further sustained efforts are needed to embed greater flexibility and resilience. This requires higher levels of resourcing (as compared to pre-pandemic) combined with transformation of processes and systems to meet long-term performance expectations.

Last month Avalon was reported as 13 events, 34 hours (and 20 flights) when it really was 87 events, 232 hours. This month the report says 95 events, 251.3 hours (and 163 flights).

Finally some analysis of OTP, with a caveat "Definition of metrics is preliminary and subject to change in subsequent releases", which is fair enough.
Understanding the building blocks of OTP
In efforts to understand the effects on OTP across the actors in the aviation ecosystem, we are applying the IATA delay attribution framework in consultation with industry to establish the building blocks of OTP. Our preliminary analysis has identified that typically, previous rotation delays contribute to 33 per cent of subsequent flight arrival delays, while disruptions during the first rotation of the day can potentially cause up to 45 per cent of subsequent flight arrival delays in the morning. Throughout the day, experience shows it is generally not possible to recover the impact given that 78% of major airlines’ fleet rotate through major airports multiple times a day.

[DROPS]

15%? Those are rookie numbers.

I believe ASA are about to bump those up.

Thanks to world class negotiation skills.

Make sure to include that in your PA.
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