Port Moresby PNG, is burning - 10th Jan, worst ever civil uprising

[Kagamuga]

The PNG government has as usual mishandled a delicate situation regarding salary and taxation.

Be careful if you are travelling to Port Moresby

Port Moresby is burning - Post Courier (https://www.postcourier.com.pg/port-moresby-is-burning/)

​Chaos In PNG Capital Port Moresby As Unrest Erupts Over Pay Deduction Dispute - PNG Facts (https://www.pngfacts.com/news/chaos-in-png-capital-port-moresby-as-unrest-erupts-over-pay-deduction-dispute)

What was once tropical paradise is no more.

Major buildings torched, fire brigade out numbered by opportunist and rascols. Total lack of respect and law and order.

.

[TBL Warrior]

Major buildings torched, fire brigade out numbered by opportunist and rascols. Total lack of respect and law and order.

.I fail to understand how this situation is more dysfunctional than an average day in POM. The absence of violent acts such as pillaging and rape, in fact, suggests that circumstances might be improving.

[antheads]

I'd love to break into tok pidgin but it's just to all sad. Either dey independent and dey can stand on their own two feet, or stop sending them australian aid ie make them an australian protectorate again.

oh wait we stuck between a rock and a hard place because if we stop sending them half a billion bucks, the chinese will just establish a full bore naval base right on our shores. F*ck you Gough Whitlam. You did some smart thing but this was one of the most stupid.

[MalcolmReynolds]

Well they wanted independence. Let them have it. No more help should come from Australia.

[Thirsty]

Some questions:

Isn't New Guinea marked on Chinese military maps as Spratly Island SOUTH EAST? They must be on the phone right now offering the 'Pacific Peacekeeping' forces.

Have the British Post Office programmers moved to Port Moresby to assist with their payroll software?

[antheads]

Well they wanted independence. Let them have it. No more help should come from Australia.
Did they? Or was it one of those executive decisions when Gough had his 2 person cabinet?

[Ascend Charlie]

A dysfunctional country on our doorstep, China would love to help out with a few navy ships sitting in Moresby. And update the airfields too, and better park some military planes on them because they are running out of parking spots in China.

Oz has to keep handing out money to the corrupt PNG government to keep the Chinese at bay.

[Retired Mobi LAME]

On arrival in Port Moresby on a Saturday afternoon in the early 80s when I was to start contract work with AWA working on Air Nuigini aircraft there was a riot between the Police and Army going on.

[Pinky the pilot]

Isn't New Guinea marked on Chinese military maps as Spratly Island SOUTH EAST?

Don't know about that but it wouldn't surprise me.

However, I remember back when Douglas Airways was still in existance, one of our Pilots flew regularly into Jayapura (sp?) and told me that on one occasion he dropped into a store there that stocked an Atlas for Schoolkids. Purely out of curiousity he flipped through thepages.

He said that PNG was called 'East Irian' and that Australia was referred to as being "South Irian.':ooh:

Oddly enough, the next time he went there a few weeks later to attempt to buy one of those Atlas', they were no longer in stock!:hmm:

[LostintheHighlands]

I fail to understand how this situation is more dysfunctional than an average day in POM.

What an ignorant thing to say.

[Switchbait]

Don't know about that but it wouldn't surprise me.

However, I remember back when Douglas Airways was still in existance, one of our Pilots flew regularly into Jayapura (sp?) and told me that on one occasion he dropped into a store there that stocked an Atlas for Schoolkids. Purely out of curiousity he flipped through thepages.

He said that PNG was called 'East Irian' and that Australia was referred to as being "South Irian.':ooh:

Oddly enough, the next time he went there a few weeks later to attempt to buy one of those Atlas', they were no longer in stock!:hmm:


I’ve seen maps in Indonesia with Australia marked as “South Irian”.

[antheads]

there was a riot between the Police and Army going on.
Well there was that whole Bougainville Sandline affair. As in the PNG army wouldn't put up with the idiot PM bringin in some pommy mercenaries in. As in we hold our guns to your head and lock you up. That was interesting.

Another segment of PNG memories, was the Port Moresby University students rioting, and of course, like clockwork, the army comes in and starts spraying semi-autos all over the place. There was so many bullet holes in the student dorms etc eh. . The whole Uni looked liked a Mogadishu war zone the next day.

Hmm i don't this his Ausaid Julia Bishop thing working, maybe to let the Chinese be the new overlords.

[CIC]

The only reason the country does NOT descend into civil war is "tribalism"

A quick review of the political situation would suggest the incumbent prime minister suspended parliament a few months ago when a vote of no confidence was tabled. When this suspension expires shortly parliament will sit again, matters will be tabled re a vote of no confidence in the prime minister. He will then suspend parliament again ??

Rogue units of police and other public servants are rattling sabres; done a lot of damage to the country, infrastructure, investment programmes; the list goes on ...

You can have all the aggrieved parties sit down and talk but with over 800 different tribes there will never be unity in PNG.

Much has been said by the Aussie PM and PNG PM about co-operation in Policing. Australian police will go to PNG to assist with training, and working alongside each other to further foster a spirit of co-operation etc. I'm not so sure that foreign police officers, except possibly the Chinese, would live in PNG police accomodation which at best would be described as fairly rough. I cannot see Aussie police eating the same food, and trying to exist when the gap between PNG police pay and Aussie police pay are worlds apart. Yet the Aussie police will wear RPNGP uniforms and take instructions from the PNG Chief Commissioner. I don't see that working ??

[antheads]

Pray for PNG. Oh wait, that' won't work,
Bilong Yumi.

[krismiler]

The term for what’s going on is “civil unrest” and isn’t uncommon, usually though on a smaller scale in the highlands.

PNG is rich in resources, strategically located close to Australia and ruled by the sort of corrupt politicians who would happily sell the country to the Chinese.

A failed state on Australia's doorstep.

[Duck Pilot]

It’s always interesting to read the keyboard warrior’s opinions and views when something goes pear shaped in PNG.

To be quite frank, the Australian media (as they always like to do) have pumped the propaganda machine up with misinformation and pure sh!t!

What interest have I got in PNG, firstly I’m an Australian taxpayer and pay way to much tax to the ATO - I’m sure it’s a bucket load more than most commentators here, ala the best part of 40K per FY, and I also pay tax in PNG as I fly in PNG.

I certainly do not like the behaviour that occurred on Wednesday in Port Moresby. PNG is an independent country and they deserve to be, and they are totally capable of doing so in my opinion, it’s certainly NOT a failed state.

We have seen similar events before that I won’t elaborate on, however two things that Papua New Guineans are passionate about - Rugby League and Politics and this will never change!

What’s the solution? Australia and other Country’s including China need to continue to support PNG, not only financially but also in trade, training and mentoring and I’m sure there are a lot of other things.

Just take a moment or two to reflect back on what PNG and it’s citizens sacrifice in World War 2 to keep the Japanese out of Australia.

[framer]

PNG is an independent country and they deserve to be, and they are totally capable of doing so in my opinion, it’s certainly NOT a failed state.
​​​​​​​What’s the solution? Australia and other Country’s including China need to continue to support PNG, not only financially but also in trade, training and mentoring and I’m sure there are a lot of other things.
I would have thought that needing to be supported both financially, and through training and mentoring is indicative of a State that has failed, or at the least yet to get up and running.
Tribalism is a problem when trying to form one big……..tribe. One big organised political community. The more tribes there are the harder it is to create a unified State. It doesn’t start getting better until the tribalism weakens and the unity develops.

[krismiler]

This is the US State Department's advice regarding travel to PNG, most other countries give similar reports.

​​​​​​https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/papua-new-guinea-travel-advisory.html#:~:text=Reconsider%20travel%20to%20Papua%20New ,Read%20the%20entire%20Travel%20Advisory.

PNG suffers major problems in virtually ever sector you can think of from law and order to health care to basic infrastructure. Yet there are vast natural resources, the profits from which could develop the country. Usual question of where the money actually goes.

PNG was a failed state a few years ago, just managed to climb out of it and now seems to be heading down again.

​​​​​​PNG?s Descent to a Fragile State ? Can it recover again? | PNG Economics (http://pngeconomics.org/2021/02/pngs-descent-to-a-fragile-state-can-it-recover-again/)

[nonsense]

I certainly condone the behaviour that occurred on Wednesday in Port Moresby. PNG is an independent country and they deserve to be, and they are totally capable of doing so in my opinion, it’s certainly NOT a failed state.

Was "condone" the word you were looking for?

What’s the solution? Australia and other Country’s including China need to continue to support PNG, not only financially but also in trade, training and mentoring and I’m sure there are a lot of other things.

If the US has no friends, only interests (Henry Kissinger (https://www.google.com/search?q=USA+friends+interests+kissinger)), China certainly has no friends, only self interest. China doesn't do anything in PNG for PNG's benefit.

[krismiler]

I spent three months flying in PNG, got to see Moresby, Mendi, Hagen, Wewak, Tabubil and a few bush strips. Moresby was the most evil place I’ve ever been in and I have been around a few third world countries including one with a civil war going on.

One night in Mt Hagen I asked the hotel receptionist for directions to the Heavy Lift compound, she looked at me like I was a bit stupid and told me not to go out at night. I took her advice and went back to my room.

[Thirsty]

...China doesn't do anything in PNG for PNG's benefit...Could I venture nobody in PNG does anything for PNG's benefit, just themselves?

[tail wheel]

I don't think PNG is a failed State - yet - but it is certainly dysfunctional. Unfortunately the concept of a western Democracy is contrary to the Papua New Guinea culture.

Did a payroll tax error really cause the Public Servant's underpayment of wages? I wonder whether the countries liquidity may have been an issue and wages were intentionally reduced rather than risking pay cheques being dishonoured? Not the first time Government payments were dishonoured.

And the future looks bleak with more civil unrest due to the high possibility the Prime Minister may be dislodged in the near future.

[Kagamuga]

I stand by any comments I make.

I started flying in PNG in 1973, had a break then back in 1980, and apart from a short break in years 2000 , I flew my last flight before retirement in PNG.

Seen some changes.

[SIUYA]

Kagamuga :D

My PNG experience started in 1975 and finishing last year (not all flying, but all aviation-related), and I also feel entitled to comment as I see fit.

Is PNG a failed state? Probably not yet in a technical sense, but the people in charge up there seem to be trying really bloody hard to make it happen.

Paul Barker, PNG Institute of National Affairs, commented on the problem of 1,300 PNG government institutions not communicating well with each other.

They tread on each other's toes. We have some of the worst health services, lowest immunisation rates, et cetera, in the world. So you wouldn't say PNG is a failed state, but it's constantly failing, it's failing its citizens.

[Pinky the pilot]

Not the first time Government payments were dishonoured.

"And don't even think about accepting an 'Ilpoc'"

One of the first things said to me when I started working for Simbu Aviation way back.

[down3gr33ns]

Country’s including China need to continue to support PNG, not only financially but also in trade, training and mentoring and I’m sure there are a lot of other things.

A bit difficult for a pollie to fit any of that in a brown paper envelope and put it in your back pocket - oh, except the "financially" bit.

[Pinky the pilot]

I left PNG over 30 years ago. But even way back then I remember being asked by 'Elderly Villagers' (and occasionally some not-so-elderly) the same question, and so many times I lost count.

"Mr Pilot, when taim bilong Masta come back?"

I'll stick my neck out and say that the above mentioned scenario would be the only thing that could possibly bring stability to that wretched place.:ooh: However, it just aint gunna happen!:mad:

[The Donne]

I left PNG over 30 years ago……

….and arrived in PNG 31.5 years ago! 😂

[antheads]

Lolzo at the PNG newbies and the lefties saying PNG is not a failed state.

Get out of your pilot hotel, and go walkabout at 11pm, then get back to us.

II remember being asked by 'Elderly Villagers'
My mother's friend was one of the last white chiefs aka village elders, in the highlands there, just before independence. the tribes came to him to resolve their disputes. And of course after independence he had to leave.

[Pinky the pilot]

.and arrived in PNG 31.5 years ago! 😂

Who, You?:confused:

I admit I wasn't there all that long. All up I spent about 18 months there. First arrived in late January '90'
Left when Dz closed around September that year. Went back around mid 91 and left for good in March 92. Think that I have mentioned that in previous posts on the PNG threads.

Loved my time there and am still bitter about the manner of my leaving!:{ I had intended to stay indefinitely.

So The Donne, when were you there?

[tail wheel]

There is a vast wealth of practical PNG knowledge in this thread, many of us spent long periods of our lives living and working in the country, in my case 23 years. However none of us "walked in the shoes" of a village Papua New Guinean and I doubt any of us really understand the infinite complexities of PNG culture or the socio-economic impact on today's village life. We each have an opinion with many valid points.

Derogatory comments towards other users are inappropriate and will be removed.

[The Donne]

So The Donne, when were you there?

2002-2017

[P51D]

Did they? Or was it one of those executive decisions when Gough had his 2 person cabinet?

Well done Gough, the big man! Ploughed through, reckoned he knew everything. PNG was on the right path until ge came along, but they were granted independence at least 20 years too early. And look at it now, Gough has got a lot to be accountable for. Don’t want to speak ill of those no longer with us, but Gough did PNG a massive disservice! End of story!

[Duck Pilot]

There is a vast wealth of practical PNG knowledge in this thread, many of us spent long periods of our lives living and working in the country, in my case 23 years. However none of us "walked in the shoes" of a village Papua New Guinean and I doubt any of us really understand the infinite complexities of PNG culture or the socio-economic impact on today's village life.



Not necessarily the case for some of those who are married to a Papua New Guinean.

Depends on a lot of variables such as where the wife/husband comes from, how long they have been married, where they live (in country or outside), children, etc.

The wantok system can also be pretty strong for an expat, and usually depends to some extent on where wife/husband is from.

[antheads]

either throw 20-200 aud billion into the place, or let the chinese take over. As in massive infrastructure and tourism projects. where's andrew forest? Why do aussie bogans go to to bali instead of PNG and Solomon Islands? Also TI. Why isin't Jestar flying 3x daily into Rabul?

[MalcolmReynolds]

As Gunny Highway would say, "It's a Cluster F#ck!"

[ozbiggles]

either throw 20-200 aud billion into the place, or let the chinese take over. As in massive infrastructure and tourism projects. where's andrew forest? Why do aussie bogans go to to bali instead of PNG and Solomon Islands? Also TI. Why isin't Jestar flying 3x daily into Rabul?
Said country has no interest in developing anything other than Forward Operating Bases with long runways and votes for them at the UN.

[antheads]

Said country has no interest in developing anything other than Forward Operating Bases with long runways

For who tho bro?: and at it is point in time does really give a f*ck? Oh you mean winnie the poo up north??

winnie the poo (https://dims.apnews.com/dims4/default/6162006/2147483647/strip/true/crop/3827x2551+0+0/resize/2880x1920!/format/webp/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.apnews.com%2Ff6%2Fff%2F5aaa974a39f fc8e4675169f0739a%2F589cad166eec4b97a420836902e5c179)

[krismiler]

PNG is rich in resources, has some of the best fishing grounds in the South Pacific, world class SCUBA diving and many potential tourist destinations such as Rabaul. Whilst a little off the beaten track it could easily give Bali and Fiji some serious competition if the tourism sector was competently managed.

Unfortunately the law and order problems block any development in this area. Whilst raskol gangs run unchecked and there is a very real danger of being robbed, kidnapped, raped or murdered, only the very adventurous will be willing to take the risk.

My memories of Port Moresby include the fact that no one uses barbed wire for security, it’s all razor wire which is much more difficult to penetrate, and seeing a revolver of Dirty Harry proportions in the doctor’s top draw while he was doing my medical.

In the highlands I remember seeing a helicopter with a machete attached to the centre pedestal for self defence, some aircraft carried a shotgun. Our GM used to carry an emergency flare device to fire at bandits if they tried to rob him whilst he was driving. A few months after I left, the house was robbed by a raskol gang who broke in and grabbed the TV and VCR while a Twin Otter crew were inside.

[tpng conehead]

I had a total of 30 years working in PNG. Seen lots of changes in that time.

[TBM-Legend]

Don’t forget darling Heather, Pacific Helicopters pilot, brutally raped and murdered in Lae years ago. I too was threatened ( we know whereby live) in Tabubil and I promptly left the country after three years.

[Deano969]

Don’t forget darling Heather, Pacific Helicopters pilot, brutally raped and murdered in Lae years ago. I too was threatened ( we know whereby live) in Tabubil and I promptly left the country after three years.
Soft...

[megan]

I wonder what my Old Man would make of it all, went to PNG mid thirties to work for Burns Philp Shipping Co. at Salamaua and was part of the NGVR doing patrols to villages various. Office staff took the company launch up to Lae to see Amelia Earhart depart. To be Mother joined the company at Salamaua six months before the war started and was repatriated to Oz, Dad stayed for the duration.

Evacuation of women/children Salamaua


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x441/salamaua_fe3070a03439586eac016436896d58af891154cd.jpg

NGVR on parade Salamaua 25-4-40. Old Man is somewhere there.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x328/ngvr_drilled_by_sergeant_rogers_25_4_40_salamaua_1545c3c58fb 356de514b0fe6974a677e35e2fc0c.jpg

[Kagamuga]

Great stuff Megan ... thanks!

[lucille]

Have things calmed down in Moresby yet? I’m guessing the stores are all empty, nothing left to loot so may as well relax and settle down to chew a bit of buai.

Curious as to what defines a failed state, I consulted old man Wiki.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state

So, not yet a failed state but too close for comfort. The questions are why did this happen and is there any hope for PNG to dig itself out?

[B747_4ever]

Such historical memories Megan. Rarely nowadays do we ever get to see such high quality records of the Territory in pre War days. You are to be commended for maintaining these records.
Sadly, the current day PNG is lacking when compared to the absolute paradise we enjoyed there in the developing days post WW11.
Thank you for posting these great photos.:ok:​​​​​​​

[antheads]

there any hope for PNG to dig itself out?

Umm, Yeah, Nah, Mate.