Lizard Island - Aircraft Overshoot.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

My local radio station reporting an aircraft with 9 POB has overshot the runway at Lizard Is. QLD.
RFDS attending.
Substantial 'drop' at the N end.......

Nil other info as yet - type etc unknown....but, knowing these 'channels'....not for long.

[Cat3508]

Looks like a caravan. Part of CH9 eloquent report " A photograph obtained by 9News showed the single propeller plane upside down in low brush and sand, with the fuselage shredded and pieces of debris nearby.
The badly mangled plane, with its propellers busted off, was cordoned off by emergency tape." :rolleyes:

[1a sound asleep]

VH-NWJ - Cessna 208B Grand Caravan (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-nwj) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-nwj

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-08/lizard-island-light-plane-crash/103292742
Two people are being treated for minor injuries at Cairns Base Hospital after a light aircraft crashed on a remote island in the Great Barrier Reef.

Queensland Ambulance Service Acting Assistant Commissioner Brina Keating said a call for help was received around 7:30 this morning after a plane taking off from Lizard Island's runway collided with trees and flipped.

She said nine adults and one 14-year-old girl were on board, with one adult sustaining a minor head injury and another a minor arm injury.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Tks Mr 1A.......didn't take 'long' at all.....

Cheeerrrsss...

[1a sound asleep]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1599x1476/image_b94ed1013f2d68880dc3677ec36b998e0a82ea73.png
Radar

[RickNRoll]

VH-NWJ - Cessna 208B Grand Caravan (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-nwj) https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/vh-nwj

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-08/lizard-island-light-plane-crash/103292742Two people are being treated for minor injuries at Cairns Base Hospital after a light aircraft crashed on a remote island in the Great Barrier Reef.

Queensland Ambulance Service Acting Assistant Commissioner Brina Keating said a call for help was received around 7:30 this morning after a plane taking off from Lizard Island's runway collided with trees and flipped.

She said nine adults and one 14-year-old girl were on board, with one adult sustaining a minor head injury and another a minor arm injury.

What were the trees doing in the way?

[Squawk7700]

Apparently the pilot did an incredible job. Take that however you please I guess!

Lizard Island, Great Barrier Reef: Plane carrying nine people crashes after overshooting runway | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site (https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/plane-carrying-nine-people-including-child-crashes-on-lizard-island-great-barrier-reef/news-story/1fb63a6cd83c42c12739776bcf04a418)

[Dick Smith]

Channel 10 news in Sydney is reporting the aircraft had engine trouble.

[megle2]

Was there a problem soon after departing which required a return to land

[Squawk7700]

Was there a problem soon after departing which required a return to land

News articles claim that it was taking off. With less than 1,000 metres, there's not a lot of time to spare when you realise something is wrong and you want to abort! Based on that, it's a half decent outcome.

[Capt Fathom]

Based on what I've read in the media, it's obvious none of them have any idea what might have happened.... but that doesn't stop them making something up!

[TWT]

7 News ( yeah, I know..) said it was an engine failure on/after takeoff, pilot did a 180 to return but ended up 100m short of the
strip, and then impacted vegetation, causing it to flip over.

Very glad to see they all made it out.

[I spy]

You seemed surprised by that?!?!?

[Capt Fathom]

an engine failure on/after takeoff, pilot did a 180 to return but ended up 100m short of the
strip, and then impacted vegetation, causing it to flip over.


Haha. 7 News didn’t check which direction the skids marks came from. :E

[nivsy]

Any further info on this incident? Looks like a bit of a mess tbh.

[RickNRoll]

Is there a definitive version of what happened yet?

[Duck Pilot]

Is there a definitive version of what happened yet?

Yes, it crashed.

[megle2]

RNR ignore Ducks stupid infantile reply. I’m interested in this as its a PT6 failure either on take off or shortly after departing the circuit. A few minutes later they could of all been in the water

[PiperCameron]

RNR ignore Ducks stupid infantile reply. I’m interested in this as its a PT6 failure either on take off or shortly after departing the circuit. A few minutes later they could of all been in the water

We don't know that. All the ATSB are saying right now is that "During initial climb, the aircraft experienced engine issues and the pilot attempted to return to Lizard Island" - which could mean a host of things other than straight-out failure.

Please wait. Information loading: https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2024/report/ao-2024-001

[beached az]

Any idea who the driver was? PM please.

[megle2]

PC I agree. I should of qualified my statement

[Lookleft]

Years ago there was a Caravan that dead sticked onto Lake Burbury in Tasmania. The first indication that all was not right was a chip detector light. Not long after the engine stopped and they were all very lucky that they were not over the mountains. That was caused by a starter/generator electrical spike making its way into the main bearing causing pitting. The chip detector light was the first indication that the bearing was about to self-destruct.

[CaptCloudbuster]

Were the trees at the end of the strip Notamed?

[Clinton McKenzie]

No. But infringing trees are noted as obstacles in the ERSA entry.

[Duck Pilot]

Without speculating, if it was a turn back due to a loss of power, the pilot has done an exceptional job with a good outcome albeit that the machine is a write off.

The accident also demonstrates the strength and integrity of the airframe for everyone to survive without any major injuries. If it was in a low wing aircraft, I’m certain that the outcome would have been a lot worse.

[Squawk7700]

If it was in a low wing aircraft, I’m certain that the outcome would have been a lot worse.

How do do reckon a PC12 would stack up in comparison, pardon the pun?

[rcoight]

Without speculating…. If it was in a low wing aircraft, I’m certain that the outcome would have been a lot worse.

Umm. Ok.

How do do reckon a PC12 would stack up in comparison, pardon the pun?

Well, it would have glided further for a start…

[Bend alot]

Without speculating, if it was a turn back due to a loss of power, the pilot has done an exceptional job with a good outcome albeit that the machine is a write off.

The accident also demonstrates the strength and integrity of the airframe for everyone to survive without any major injuries. If it was in a low wing aircraft, I’m certain that the outcome would have been a lot worse.
Certainly NO LACK of power from the engine!

[Requestcode]

Have a look at the ground speed on the flight aware data. He is at 185kts for an extended period. A combination of the speed and tracking might give some hints to what the nature of the failure was.

[taraglen]

Correct. But this appears to be different.

The photo that shows two blades in feather shows them both bent similarly in the same direction as if under a lot of power. If the blades in feather had no engine power being delivered to them, they would have been free wheeling at very slow RPM and upon impact with the ground, the damage would be different.

[Bend alot]

How do do reckon a PC12 would stack up in comparison, pardon the pun?
I would say apples to apples, a fatal or many fatalities.

[flypilotboy]

Feather or Beta? Could have been trying to slow himself down after touchdown. Should be doing 80-100KIAS depending on config during the glide. I don't think it was a turnback now from what I've seen.

[ravan]

The ATSB think it might have been a turnback.
From the preliminary report:
"During initial climb, the aircraft experienced engine issues and the pilot attempted to return to Lizard Island. During landing the aircraft collided with trees and came to rest inverted. The aircraft sustained substantial damage and there were reports of serious injuries among the occupants."

[601]

The ATSB think it might have been a turnback.

I guess that they would have asked the people on board by now and established that fact.

[the_rookie]

The ATSB think it might have been a turnback.
From the preliminary report:
"During initial climb, the aircraft experienced engine issues and the pilot attempted to return to Lizard Island. During landing the aircraft collided with trees and came to rest inverted. The aircraft sustained substantial damage and there were reports of serious injuries among the occupants."

That's a bold statement.

[Requestcode]

The reports iv heard is it was an un commanded increase in torque. The pilot then returned to land, shut the engine down on approach to land and subsequently overshot/landed long. That would explain the 185kt ground speed.

[dragon man]

The reports iv heard is it was an un commanded increase in torque. The pilot then returned to land, shut the engine down on approach to land and subsequently overshot/landed long. That would explain the 185kt ground speed.


That is correct.

[ravan]

Rookie, it was still a turnback of some sort, regardless of engine failure or un-commanded increase in torque. I just quoted from the Preliminary Report from the ATSB. "...and the pilot attempted to return to Lizard Island."

[the_rookie]

And the pilot attempted to return. Very different to a turnback

[StudentPilot479]

The reports iv heard is it was an un commanded increase in torque. The pilot then returned to land, shut the engine down on approach to land and subsequently overshot/landed long. That would explain the 185kt ground speed.

There was recently a similar event in Canada on January 10, I think. A DHC-3T had an uncommanded increase in torque, exceeded Vmo, then ended up short of the runway.

[Bend alot]

Any info if the ELT/B went off?

It seems rare to hear of them going off these days.

[nomess]

I have been reading this, and a few previous reports, what stands out to me, is that we might have an issue with forced landings, be it partial or no power, and managing the energy on approach. Most reports have one thing in common, everyone is coming in way too fast. I’ve just read three reports in which aircraft have ended up overshooting, to planned returns to a runway.

I am aware that 208 Pilots do conduct training before checked out with turn back training and so on.

What techniques are used these days to teach the young pilots to burn the speed? I assume S turns on final was a common one. I know it’s something that probably isn’t done enough, and generally only taught at a home base airport only a couple of times before a flight test.

[PiperCameron]

What techniques are used these days to teach the young pilots to burn the speed? I assume S turns on final was a common one. I know it’s something that probably isn’t done enough, and generally only taught at a home base airport only a couple of times before a flight test.

Short Field technique (tearing in on the back of the power curve) is one, perhaps, but otherwise in my experience very little.. due to a general fear from the right seat of a low-altitude stall.

[navajoe]

Do they teach sideslipping any more these days.?

[nomess]

What I have personally noted, in many glide approaches be it real or simulated, is many establish themselves on final, apply flap generally late, and just hope for the best. Most end up down the far end of the runway. No effort is made to pull back that speed, I put that down to non existent training.

I’ve also found many instructors get nervous with these approaches, they don’t all advise what you should do if you find one self too fast/high. Many simply just perform a missed approach, and do it again, however doing this and that a bit earlier. More education on the ground can be had, doesn’t all need to be in the air if the training organisation doesn’t permit such manoeuvres. Sideslip, S turns, or simply conducting a turn off final, burn some speed, then turn back in. So many options to get oneself successfully on the ground, I don’t think many are trained well for what is the most important part of the forced landing.

I was reading a report on the flipped 210 on Groote. Very similar to this. Speed off the charts, went for a tour down the runway before ending upside down way past the end.

[Jabberwocky82]

Is anyone else noticing a larger number of Caravan engine issues/failures at the moment?

Aviation Safety Network > > ASN Aviation Safety Database results (aviation-safety.net) (https://aviation-safety.net/asndb/type/C208/8)

[Prattnwho]

Is anyone else noticing a larger number of Caravan engine issues/failures at the moment?

Aviation Safety Network ASN LINK

No, not really. The 208-PT6 is a very well proven combo. The ASN lists every prang, irrespective of cause.

[Jabberwocky82]

No, not really. The 208-PT6 is a very well proven combo. The ASN lists every prang, irrespective of cause.

Yes, they do. If you read them, there has been six engine-related accidents or incidents within the last 6 months. That is one a month in what I would agree is a 'very well proven combo'.

[Capt Fathom]

How many hours does the worldwide C208 fleet do a year? Probably a million or more. That's a lot of cycles.

[Prattnwho]

Yes, they do. If you read them, there has been six engine-related accidents or incidents within the last 6 months. That is one a month in what I would agree is a 'very well proven combo'.

If you read them, you'd see none of those reports are finalised or provide a conclusive root cause (let alone a common cause between them). As Capt Fathom alludes to, an accident rate (per hour, per cycle etc) would be a more helpful start than a sensationalist "larger number of Caravan engine issues/failures at the moment".

Although this is a rumour network so who really cares?