His Majesty's Airship

[Allan Lupton]

My post-Christmas reading was devoted to S.C. Wynne’s book of this title and I’m sure I am not alone. My understanding of the R 101 airship saga is based mainly on Peter Masefield’s 1982 book “To Ride the Storm” and Wynne gives credit to author and book, but it is harder to accept his view that Barnes Wallis and Nevil Shute were intensely prejudiced against R.101 leading to them making untrue statements about it.

Nevertheless it is an interesting book.

[4Screwaircrew]

I've just listened to Slide Rule, Nevil Shute's autobiography nothing he said there would suggest intense prejudice to me, just a concern about the way the design and construction was handled.

[thnarg]

Some interesting context:
https://www.aerosociety.com/media/4580/flight-testing-the-titanic-re-visiting-the-loss-of-his-majestys-airship-r101-2015-5.pdf

[Airbanda]

I've just listened to Slide Rule, Nevil Shute's autobiography nothing he said there would suggest intense prejudice to me, just a concern about the way the design and construction was handled.

Shute (professionally Nevil Norway) was critical of the R101's construction. He was also concerned that government funding for R101 was bottomless in a way that money for his own firm's design was not.

Nobody who reads his books, mostly written post war, would be in any doubt that his politics were not of the left!!!

[treadigraph]

Long time since I've read Slide Rule but Nevil Shute's criticism of the R101 as I recall was after initial trials it needed to be parted and have an additional section inserted, plus it carried one engine purely for reverse thrust when mooring?

[thnarg]

Long time since I've read Slide Rule but Nevil Shute's criticism of the R101 as I recall was after initial trials it needed to be parted and have an additional section inserted, plus it carried one engine purely for reverse thrust when mooring?The R101 had to use Beardmore diesels because of perceived risk of gasoline engine accidents in Indian heat, adding 10 tons to the ZFM. This would have been slightly offset by hollow metal bladed propellers with reversible pitch. Test failures meant non-reversible wooden blades had to be installed so yes, a reversing engine was fitted. One of many (to our modern eyes) ridiculous features.

[Allan Lupton]

I've read somewhere that the fifth engine solely as a reverse provider was a temporary measure - but I can't recall where I read it,nor its source. Wynne does not refer to it, or if he does I missed it.
Reversing the pitch of the propellor was a favoured way to get reverse, but some schemes reversed the engine's rotation, where a simple lever-controlled gearbox would have reduced complication.

[gravedigger666]

Completely irrelevant to this thread but Iron Maiden made rather a good song about R101

https://youtu.be/RsM6wpIA3Sc?si=Iuayq-_RNp0IxxsD

[Sue Vêtements]

He was also concerned that government funding for R101 was bottomless in a way that money for his own firm's design was not.

I read Slide Rule, and my memory is that he compared the two systems and noted pros and cons of each. He said that the R101 had the advantage of using public money and therefore a bottomless supply of the stuff, BUT, that as a consequence there were always endless committees to go through to get that funding

He compared that with his project saying that money was much tighter, but it was much easier to make a decision and try something out

Swings and roundabouts; or sixes a and half dozens if you prefer

[longer ron]

Yes Slide Rule was an interesting read - one of the 'differences' between the 2 ships was that the R101 had the Airship equivalent of 'power steering' (another heavy 'add on') but the R100 was completely 'manual' - it was one of the things that worried the R100 team in case they had done their calculations wrong.But on flight test they found that they could quite easily get a few degrees of rudder 'on' and as the ship started to turn they could get a few more degrees of rudder on if required.
The R100 design team did a lot of 'worrying' over the design differences and whether they had 'got it wrong'
I am afraid there is no doubt that the R101 was badly designed with lots of muddled thinking going on - meaning it was grossly overweight which then begat more 'bodging' - the relative situation was probably compounded when the R100 had a good trip across the 'Pond' which probably sealed the fate of the R101 in that the 101 was in effect 'forced' to go on the (India ?) trip because of the R100 success in the USA.

[treadigraph]

Reading Shute's account of the transatlantic trip, I suffered testicular withdrawal at his description of people strolling along on the top of the envelope in flight. (Does a rigid airship have an envelope or have I forgotten the correct term?)

[thnarg]

Reading Shute's account of the transatlantic trip, I suffered testicular withdrawal at his description of people strolling along on the top of the envelope in flight. (Does a rigid airship have an envelope or have I forgotten the correct term?)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1227x786/img_4342_e7c2753c919a93c08aec4e978b963c616def5332.jpeg

I can recommend www.airshipsonline.com with its links to all sorts of documents concerning the R100, R101 and R102.

Happy New Year everyone.

[longer ron]

Reading Shute's account of the transatlantic trip, I suffered testicular withdrawal at his description of people strolling along on the top of the envelope in flight. (Does a rigid airship have an envelope or have I forgotten the correct term?)

George Meager A.F.C - in his book My Airship Flights usually describes/calls it the Outer Cover or just Cover,he was 1st Officer onboard R101 for the transatlantic flight (and very experienced on other Rigid and Non Rigid Ships).

[Sue Vêtements]

That would be a good pic for the Caption Competition

You'd think they'd at least have a walkway up there

[thnarg]

That would be a good pic for the Caption Competition

You'd think they'd at least have a walkway up there”No, I thought you’d brought the speedtape”

Only it would have been in German, Sue, because that’s Alfred Eisenstädt’s photo of the Graf Zeppelin being repaired over the Atlantic. I assume all dirigibles had similar in-flight access to reduce B defects on arrival.

[longer ron]

Only it would have been in German, Sue, because that’s Alfred Eisenstädt’s photo of the Graf Zeppelin being repaired over the Atlantic. I assume all dirigibles had similar in-flight access to reduce B defects on arrival.

Yep - R100 had an almost identical 'Lifeline' rope running the length of the spine.

[Allan Lupton]

I could have saved having Wynne's book as I now find that a comprehensive analysis of the R101 is availible at https://www.aerosociety.com/media/4840/the-r101-story-a-review-based-on-primary-source-material.pdf

[Allan Lupton]

I'll bump this up as there still seems to be some interest in this, judging by the number of views

[AES]

Re "In flight repairs":

thnarg wrote, QUOTE: Only it would have been in German, Sue, because that’s Alfred Eisenstädt’s photo of the Graf Zeppelin being repaired over the Atlantic. UNQUOTE:

In fact, the bloke almost out of the picture going down the side of the ship is Herr Knut Eckener, the son of Dr. Hugo Eckener, the acknowledged "Mr. Airship" after the death of Graf Zeppelin himself in 1917.

I use that actual photograph a lot as part of my tours (I'm one of the freelance tour guides at the Zeppelin Museum in Friedrichshafen).