range of autos

[onehunglow]

A few years ago when I was an ab initio student with about 30 hours on B-47's, at the centre for Army Aviation at Middle Wallop, I was out on a GH sortie with my ex Navy civilian instructor.

He said; 'Show me a range auto'

I thought he said; "Show me a range of auto's"

I climbed up to 3000ft and proceeded to morph from a 'standard' 60kt auto to a 'constant attitude' and finally a range auto. The instructor sat in silence as I produced my 'variety pack'

The instructors nickname was 'Chopper' as he had a reputation for 'chopping' poor students.

I can't remember how I got away that day !

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

No surprise at the nickname, over the years there have been quite a few "Choppers" at Middle Wallop !

NEO

[Lucifer Morningstar]

A few years ago when I was an ab initio student with about 30 hours on B-47's, at the centre for Army Aviation at Middle Wallop, I was out on a GH sortie with my ex Navy civilian instructor.

He said; 'Show me a range auto'

I thought he said; "Show me a range of auto's"

I climbed up to 3000ft and proceeded to morph from a 'standard' 60kt auto to a 'constant attitude' and finally a range auto. The instructor sat in silence as I produced my 'variety pack'

The instructors nickname was 'Chopper' as he had a reputation for 'chopping' poor students.

I can't remember how I got away that day !

Given that you had around 30hrs, I should say you did extremely well! I know many QHI’s who would struggle to get the 3 of them in from 3000ft. I suspect he was impressed, even if he didn’t tell you.

[albatross]

I am unfamiliar with the term “constant attitude auto” how is that defined?
I guess a constant attitude is maintained but to what purpose?

[Ascend Charlie]

I am unfamiliar with the term “constant attitude auto” how is that defined?
I guess a constant attitude is maintained but to what purpose?

Generally for a low-speed auto.

We practiced them in Hueys: normal auto 60kt, range 72kt, but when we wanted to drop it into a tennis court, it was done at 30kt (so the airspeed would register), hold that attitude and the target was between your toes in the chin bubble.

Closer, closer, here comes normal (60kt) flare height, go through that, and when your bum takes a bite from the seat cushion, a bubby flare (more of an attitude change, no time for flare effects to build up) and give a sharp pull on the collective, and then cushion on. Repair seat.

First time is an eye-opener.

[sycamore]

Usually if it is night,and you don`t have flares/NVG/BIG LIGHTS,or over the sea/IMC,or anywhere you are uncertain of the surface,at about 30-40 ktsIAS,wait until you see the ground/rad.alt(if you have one),then ,about 40-50 ft,kill the speed,and pull to the top...and hope...


As per AC above...
and your RRPM will be lower than normal autos...

[megan]

As per AC in the Huey, though we were taught 35 knots, run on landings were fun.

[VM325]

I was once told that the yellow band across the front of the B47 'bubble' is an autorotation guide.
ie. you can land anywhere you can see below the line.

If that's a myth, then what's the line for...?

[lelebebbel]

I was once told that the yellow band across the front of the B47 'bubble' is an autorotation guide.
ie. you can land anywhere you can see below the line.

If that's a myth, then what's the line for...?
I don't remember having that line in any 47 I've flown? It wouldn't work that well because it would change depending on how tall the pilot is.

Somewhat related, in the H269 you can carry a brick in the cockpit for the same purpose.

[[email protected]]

Constant attitude EOL - 30-35kts, don't chase the airspeed below 100' just hold the attitude, wait until the green turns to grass (ie you are very close to the ground say 20'), NO flare (unless you want to lose the tail), a sharp upward check with collective and hold, wait until it looks like a hover EOL and then use everything you have left keeping straight on the run on.

Sport of Kings:)

[ShyTorque]

During my basic RW course (Whirlwind 10) I was taught CA EOLs as per Crab’s description, by the late Ned Sparks. The technique worked very well and I got fairly good at it, no big deal. I then temporarily had to fly one with a rather nervous instructor who twitched and bo££ocked me even though I just smoothed it on in one go. His method was to take progressive “bites” on the collective. I had to relearn his technique, which was untidy and usually resulted in a harder, less controlled landing. But at least he was happy.

I was then put back with Ned. He asked me to fly a CA EOL; I used the later technique and he couldn’t believe what I’d been taught. He made me do another, using his “one pull” method. Unfortunately my muscle memory kicked in and I took a bite. So we did yet another….I still couldn’t remember to do it in one pull, and did similar. In desperation he told me to do one more and not to pull on the collective until he said. All went well until he forgot to say! Just as the Whirlwind touched the grass, I pulled and caught it very nicely on the rebound! We ricocheted up to what was probably 75 feet, with rapidly decreasing RRPM. Thankfully a quick dose of “forward and down” saved the day and we landed without any damage to the aircraft whatsoever, courtesy of the long stroke undercarriage. Ned had the good grace to admit it was his fault! I doubt I’d have got away with it in many other types.

[albatross]

Constant attitude EOL - 30-35kts, don't chase the airspeed below 100' just hold the attitude, wait until the green turns to grass (ie you are very close to the ground say 20'), NO flare (unless you want to lose the tail), a sharp upward check with collective and hold, wait until it looks like a hover EOL and then use everything you have left keeping straight on the run on.

Sport of Kings:)

Thanks, we used to refer to “Constant Attitude” under the moniker, “Night Autos”.

I was a proponent, for day VFR autos to go initially for “Long” Range ….you could always shorten it up. Amazing to some how much further you could go. RPM bottom of the green, 80 plus 1/2 the windspeed seemed to give best results. We would demo a bog standard auto from over a spot then repeat going to long range immediately, An eye opener to some as we zipped over the landing point of the previous auto.
All autos at the company were full ons with 0 speed landings. We were operating in the bush and the chances of having space or terrain allowing a run on were somewhere betwixt 0 and nill.
Fun daze.

[SASless]

There is more than one way to skin a Cat....and each technique offered has to be considered in full context that includes the particular aircraft.....and the kind of rotor system they have, airspeeds, rotor RPM ranges, wind, terrain, weather, lighting (natural, man made) loading of the aircraft, whether a sling load is involved and what kind (jesttisonable or not), and lastly.....some luck.

What is beneficial with a discussion as being had here is one can store away the useful bits and maybe one day down the line it will come back to you in a flash when needed.

An example.....during a Bell 205 Check Ride the Check Pilot talked about landing in trees....when there was no doubt one was going to land in the trees....and there was no other option available......and it paid off in spades later on while flying a Huges 500D in Alaska many years later.

Right at dusk I departed a mountain top near Tok, Alaska with two passengers and some internal cargo.

Upon lifting to a hover.....I noticed an unusual sound that was new but not ominous sounding.....stayed at a hover for a moment longer than normal....carefully noticed the instrument readings...varied power and moved the flight controls about a bit....all looked and felt good....and away we went.....and after a bout a minute or so and now about 9,000 feet AGL....I put the Collective down and there was a bit bang and the engine mostly quit working.....it was still running but the needles had split and would not re-engage. That is entirely too high for such things to happen....as it allows for way too much thinking.

On the way down I was seriously looking for a nice parking place and did a couple of turns looking behind as well as in front as there were no spots of any kind that stood out. Looking back towards the mountain was a problem because of the Sun angle.....so it was back to looking away from the mountain and towards the nearest road about ten miles away.

Trees....lots of trees....with big patches of Alder Thickets ....and no clearings. Decision made....I would go for the best looking area of Alder and look for the lowest bunch and hope there were no hidden tree stumps from earlier logging in the area.

The advice had been....arrive at the bottom with the maximum Rotor RPM possible....which in the Hughes a very hard flare would generate.....followed by leveling the aircraft and settle into the tree tops using up all of the rotor RPM possible before you hit something big and sturdy.

Also...the advice said absent a good choice of spot....wait till the last moment and pick the best of what presented itself.

As I got to that point I realized there was one small stand of tall trees between me and a pretty nice place to park on top of some very small Alders.....and knowing my aircraft I knew with certainty I could pop up and over those trees.

I did....and as I cleared the trees and leveled the nose I was right over that very small spot.....luck plays a huge role in success sometimes.

Landing made...no damage to the aircraft....over night walk through the forest to the paved road....and a pickup by members of our operation looking for us along the road.

You have to know the aircraft you are flying and how it performs in autorotation.....not think you know.....but know from experience and that requires doing it.

I was fortunate as in my US Army training we did lots and lots and lots of touch down autorotations and tail rotor failure practice.

Today....I will accept that doing power recoveries and foregoing touchdowns might be the preferred compromise as if your approach is good the landing will probably be good as well....and fewer machines get bent or broken in training.

[albatross]

Years ago:
Very scientifically minded student to grizzled bush pilot instructor: “If we have no choice should we outo into deciduous or coniferous trees?”

GBPI does slow turn, holds out hand at knee level: “LITTLE ONES!!!!”

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how “Deciduous” got his nickname forever more.

[MightyGem]

I don't remember having that line in any 47 I've flown?


A Bell 47 with the yellow line. Quite a common thing. I believe it was used as a "horizon" line.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x600/img_1995_211eeff5c1d59bafcba876b483250fd3138807a5.jpg

[SASless]

Never saw a yellow line on the bubble of any that I flew....but I can count them all on two fingers.

The only yellow lines were markings on some of the engine instruments.

But I have seen lots...and lots at Fort Wolters and Fort Rucker.

Probably a local mod depending upon the model of aircraft as there were quite a few of them....some with different bubble canopies than others.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x695/2225420_62211e4435731b0b8fd73d13f6ace8ccc01d607c.jpg

[megan]

Our USN trainers were same same SAS's, TH13M, Franklin engine, wooden blades.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x919/44443_1546105478_7af8ed2c85d4c2c9c5f62db4a25a9a0b97e55d99.jp g