Ansett Australia To Be Born Again ?

[Airtart]

Get those resumes out and ready to go !!!
This from www.news.com.au

Ansett revival possible
September 03, 2002

SINGAPORE Airlines could be considering a proposal to revive the collapsed Ansett airline.

Less than two week's short of the anniversary of Ansett's failure, Channel Nine tonight reported a proposal to revive the airline would be put to Singapore's board.

Singapore Airlines consultants in Australia began secretly assembling a proposal for a full domestic competitor to Qantas about six months ago, with the proposal completed about a week ago.

Sydney Airports Corporation Ltd spokesman Greg Russell told Nine he believed Singapore was serious in its Australian domestic airline bid.

"We have every reason to believe this is being considered very seriously indeed," he said.

It is believed the Singapore domestic fleet in Australia would comprise 24 Airbus aircraft.

The Singapore proposal found the Ansett brand name still had strong support among Australians.

However, Ansett lawyer Leon Zwier said tonight there had been no discussion with Singapore Airlines.

"We're not sitting down to talks ... we're not doing deals with Ansett names or parts," he said.

"Although if they want to talk to us they would be welcome."

An Ansett administrators' spokeswoman would not comment on any speculation the airline was seeking a "domestic airline solution in Australia".


:D :D :D

[cabinboy]

Bring back ANSETT AUSTRALIA ! Bring back the pretty Ansett Intl f/a's with their navy blue felt hats !

Fingers crossed the starmark "A" gets back in the sky !

[Airtart]

Singapore Airlines is not confirming or denying a report that it is interested in reviving Ansett.

Channel Nine has reported that Singapore will soon consider a plan to launch a new Ansett using 24 airbus aircraft and employing around 3,000 staff.

A spokesman for Singapore Airlines says Australia is a market of interest for the airline, which operates 70 flights a week into the country.

The spokesman says Singapore is keeping its options open for the Australian market.

From ABC News.

From Singapore: The Business Times. 03.09.02

MELBOURNE - Singapore Airlines (SIA) today dismissed speculation that it was considering a proposal to revive Australia's collapsed Ansett airline.

In the latest in a series of rumours concerning SIA's plans for Australia's domestic aviation market, TV station Channel Nine reported a proposal to revive the failed Ansett brand was set to go before the airline's board.

Sydney Airports Corp spokesman Greg Russell told Nine he believed Singapore was serious in its Australian airline bid.

"We have every reason to believe this is being considered very seriously indeed," he said.




But an SIA spokesman in Singapore told AFP "nothing has changed" since the last time rumours surfaced that the airline was preparing a foray into the Australian domestic market.

The airline dismissed a similar report in July as groundless, although leaving open the option of entering the Australian market at some stage.

"It's just another speculative story," the airline's vice president for public affairs, Rick Clements, said then, adding: "We are not ruling out any possibility of running another airline in the future nor are we ruling it in at this stage."

Channel Nine said SIA consultants in Australia began secretly assembling a proposal for a full domestic competitor to Qantas Airways Ltd about six months ago, with the proposal completed about a week ago.


Please explain why SIA are in Melbourne?


:confused:

[BlueEagle]

Channel Nine news here in Australia this morning says it is now official, SIA are definitely seeking to revive Ansett with about 24 Airbus aircraft, 3 class service and employ about 3000 staff.

They will fly major cities only and feed their own and other Star Alliance international flights, possibly operate some international flights too.

They are setting up to be in direct competition with QANTAS rather than Virgin Blue.

Best of luck to everyone that manages to get a job.

[FloatJockey]

The news on Channel Nine....... pffffff........ a bunch of over-excited story-tellers! ...more smoke than my oven could ever make burning Yorkshire puddings!!... :eek:

...THANKS GOD FOR SBS... :D

Mrs. FloatJockey

--------------------------------------------------------
Nouvelle Cuisine' expert... ya right!

[nickmelb]

right on floatey!

i wouldnt read into news things at the moment..SQ have been looking at doing this for months....and until anything is confirmed from SQ themselves then i would be jumping for joy!

[AnsettStar]

Hmmmmmm......seems to be deja vu a la media reports regarding Air NZ & Fox/ Lewis around this time last year. I wouldn't pin too much on this. But hey, if ithappens, I'll be the first to be partying! :)

[BlueEagle]

Sorry Mrs Floaty - I was just passing on what I saw/heard and hoping it might bring a bit of cheer to the unemployed! (it was also on 7, 10 and in the papers).

And as for SBS, well, if you ever want to hear a minority/extreme/left wing/anti-Australian/anti-establishment view point then, by all means, go for SBS!:D

[Jennie Blond]

Blueeagle and others,

There is a real buzz here in Dubai about the possibilty of the Australian home market thriving once again. A lot of the Cabin and Cockpit crews here at Emirates - especially those who have done several years here in the Country - appear to be quite eager to fly back home once again.

I certainly hope that it is good news all round for the industry.

[Skyflier]

As a pax, I wish. I'm off to Aus and NZ next week on a business trip - SQ & NZ for the most part but QF when I have to on domestics. AN were just so good, seeing them back and QF knocked of their arrogant perch by having competition from another real player would just be so good.

Hope it happens for all you brilliant AN people out there for who nothing was ever too much trouble and you always had a good smile and a lot of cheer.

[maninblack]

So the view round here is that it is all journalistic smoke and mirrors?

Someone better tell the rump of the purchasing dept who are busy provisioning aircraft at the moment then.

They are spending a shed load of money for a rumour.

[tyra]

skyflier, i think pehaps you just had a bad crew on the day..I work for Qantaslink and all the crew I work with are happy, enthusiastic and love what they do. I hope this time you get to experience a great crew when you fly with QF or their subsiduries

[Skyflier]

No tyra, it wasn't one bad day, it was five bad days culminating in my colleague stowing her laptop in the overhead locker and a crew member saying it was safe and securing the locker. The crew member was the last person to touch the locker.

On take off, the locker opened and the laptop went flying, fortunately, it missed hitting anyone. We are still waiting for any kind of apology though the laptop failed to function from there on and we lost a lot of work. What we did get was berated for not stowing it safely by the very crew member who had checked it and closed the locker and when I said that I thought safety was a crew responsibility, I was told to shut up and mind my own business as it was my colleagues laptop. QF continued to maintain that they were in no way liable for this accident and in the end we gave up on them as a bunch of deadbeats.

So ended my travels with QF and all I can say is that I am not looking forward to flying with them one bit this time and if there was a choice I'd be taking it. But QF crew, you're getting another chance, so go on impress me though if your attitude is like it was the last time, you will already have decided that you have no need to do that.

First domestic sector is QF 439 on 15th September, second is QF 636 on 16th, then QF 606 on 19th and QF 567 on 22nd. The challenge is yours, I expect you to fail, miserably, after the last time.

[saloon]

Skyflier:

with thoughts such as this:

-- "The challenge is yours, I expect you to fail, miserably, after the last time." --

then I think you will find that QANTAS will fail miserably - because you expect it. Bad vibes attract bad vibes (that is not meant to sound as "whoa man, feel the peace" as it does!). The fact is (whether you like it or not) that you don't have any choice but to fly QANTAS on most routes. So, if you find travelling QANTAS as horrible as it seems you do, the best thing to do would be just grin and bear it, or choose another method of transport.

While you may think that good service is the exception in QANTAS, it shouldn't stop you from thinking of all of the 'good apples' (such as tyra, by the sounds of her last post) - and there are good apples out there!

If you look for the bad in any situation - you will find it!

Good luck with your travels!

[Skyflier]

I'm actually determined to be open minded when I get to Australia about this. I know that most crews are well motivated and good people but also, at times morale in a company gets pushed to rock bottom as the work force are squeezed for various reasons. Given that strike action has recently affected QF I guess all is not well there so I don't suppose morale is that good which is why I expect poor service as well as previous experience.

I fly far enough, often enough to know that crews have relatively little control over things that can make a flight pleasant or not like the quality of food, seating allocation and so on but by being friendly (after all, most Aussies are exceptionally friendly!) and cheerful and responding in a pleasant manner they can make a huge difference to perception of the service and their company.

I had never flown QF before the times I referred to so I had no preconceived ideas and I think I was open minded but my experiences were not good and five bad sectors is a lot one after the other. I would add that I found the ground staff helpful and friendly on all occasions. My issue really was with the attitude and manner of the cabin crew, the like of which I had never encountered before anywhere.

[cabinboy]

Skiflier....sweetheart......pet,

I bet you have already typed your complaint letter to QF for your upcoming flights ? No ? .....yeh right. I do not know what your problem is regarding the laptop incident but how about you and your friend take some responsibility. Because your friend was careless with her stowage of her laptop, you have turned it all around back on to QF by claiming the cabin crew are rude ? It doesn't make sense. QF did not tell your friend to take your laptop with her on the flight, she could have easily placed the laptop well underneath the seat in front of her, why is it QF's fault that she chose to store it up there ? There is a clear PA made on all QF flights which state where you can stow your luggage. You are clearly bitter with QF for some reason and I think it goes deeper than your alledged bad treatment, are you a flight attendant reject yourself ? You have no right to shoot your mouth off on THIS forum especially because you ARE NOT a cabin crew member and therefore have no business here. Judging by your post your attitude is the type that would provoke blunt or ill mannered responses from crew should you use this type of " I hate qantas and i'm going to sit in my seat and be miserable for the whole flight "attitude towards them.

I am truly sorry though that you feel this way and of course rude cabin crew should not be encountered by anyone, however, perhaps your mannerisms or expecations are different to those of us in Australia and acting disgruntled could possibly provoke the horrible treatment you alledge to have received on QF domestic flights. There are much worse airlines out there than QF who by the way was just voted airline of the year by a national travel magazine. ( It seems obvious that not everyone shares your opinion). The fact is that QANTAS is a global airline and on forums such as these we only hear the bad things about QF and not the good things.

Do us all a favour and fly QF LINK before you go around bad mouthing the whole Qantas group. You'll find a fresh youthful bunch of happy and enthusiastic crew to help persude your opinion.

******
MODERATOR - IS THERE A REASON WHY THE POSTS OF THIS USER SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM ? THE POSTER IS NOT A FLIGHT ATTENDANT AND HAS CLEARLY COME ON HERE TO BASH QF. THERE IS A FORUM FOR CIVILIANS CALLED " SLF " WHICH THE USER SHOULD BE DIRECTED TO FOR ISSUES SUCH AS THE ONE THE POSTER IS RAISING. AUSTRALIAN F/A'S SHOULD NOT HAVE TO COME ON THIS FORUM TO DEAL WITH DISGRUNTLED PAX, I DO BELIEVE THE FORUM WAS STARTED FOR DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN CREW MEMBERS ALIKE. EVERY AIRLINE HAS THERE OWN PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPT WHICH FOLLOWS THE CORRECT PROCEDURE IN DEALING WITH SUCH COMPLAINTS, RATHER THAN THE POSTER PROVIDING DATES OF TRAVEL TO QF CREW ON THIS SITE FOR WHICH HE IS ASKING TO RECEIVE BETTER SERVICE.

CABINBOY

[Sick Squid]

Yes, it's thread creep, and yes, the complaint element is more appropriate to SLF... but why bin an entire thread just because a complaint appears? This is still alive, the points have been dealt with pretty well in my opinion, including by yourself, and if everyone now sticks to the topic in hand we'll be back on track.

Fair enough? A tactic I recommend is always contribute something to the topic, even if the main thrust of the reply you are writing is dealing with a tangential issue. Retains focus, and helps neutralise drift.

...and having broken that rule, can we keep this about the rebirth of Ansett, please. Debates on procedure, etc on new threads, please.

[Skyflier]

Oops, my original intention in posting was to wish good luck to many good people who gave me lots of good service over a great number of trips. If I should not have done that in this forum I'm sorry but I for one really would like to see AN back in the sky and many good people back in the jobs they did so well.

If in making my post I went off the main topic I'm also sorry. I'm not into complaining and have only once made a complaint to an airline in over 20 years and that was nothing to do with the crew. Cabinboy, please go back and read what I said, we didn't do anything that we were asked not to do at any stage, you weren't there (I don't think!) and your response is more than a bit OTT. ;)

[saloon]

Firstly, let me say that I personally don't think that this thread should be closed because of a complaint. Skyflier, brought up a 'gripe' with QANTAS in a non-offensive manner - all within his/her rights.

Skyflier --

It is good to see that you have an open attitude. My post was simply a bit of friendly advice. After all, air-travel in Australia is choice limited so it is far better for your stress levels and emotional health to be 'non-chalant' about any bad experiences you encounter. There is no point getting stressed when you don't have any other options which enable you to vent your anger - such as choosing a competing airline!


Now, back on topic.

I think it would be fabulous to see a third carrier emerge from the tangled messes of the last year!

But just a question...

The media are reporting a 'three class service airline'. Would this mean the traditional first/business/economy or something more like business/premium economy/no-frills economy. Wouldn't three classes inflate the cost base? I can't see why anyone would wan't to pay extra for a larger seat and food on a hour and 20 minute SYD-MEL service! Obviously people do though.

[cabinboy]

Saloon,

One would think that the operation would be set up as a first/business/economy layout as this would be consistent with the connecting SQ flights which have the three class layout.

In regards to the skifliers comments, yes he/she is enititled to an opinion however as an off duty f/a accessing this bulletin board it is annoying to have to read complaints from unhappy pax. This is not why I visit this bulletin board and I dare say other members also !

Would love to see Ansett back in the sky myself as I have previously said earlier in this thread, but I have doubts that SQ would use the " Ansett " name again.

Best Regards
CB

[saloon]

Cabinboy

I totally agree with you re: customer complaints. I don't work for an airline, but it is annoying when you are not working and people are still in you ear about the bad service they received at your workplace. Particularly when you aren't able to obtain both sides of the story. And, I am sorry, but I am not going to accept personal responsibility for something that I have no control over. I will empathise with people and, if possible, i will follow up on the complaint - but I find that most people that "complain" - in the truest sense of the word (whinge, scream, shout, assume feotal position) - don't genuinely want the problem rectified. Rather, they want blood! But, customer feedback is one of the best ways of improving your service (or so the theory goes! )

What I do when someone is really complaining is to just let them rant for as long as it takes them to stop. I furrow my brow in *concern* and occassionally nod my head and thoughtfully say "hmm", "yes", "absolutely", all the while thinking of something totally unrelated (like a beach setting or whether I feel like cold or warm Weet-bix when I get home).

I also think that the name Ansett will not be used - to much baggage for non frequent fliers and non-aviation enthusiasts.

[SydGirl]

Skyflier, as ex-Ansett I really do appreciate your comments and best wishes. I am fortunate enough to be employed again but many of my colleagues and friends are still grieving and suffering both emotional and financial pain. It is nice to know that people out there really do appreciate the effort and determination the staff put into Ansett, despite it's financial woes and managerial bungles!

However, please do fly QF with an open mind - none of us here can speak for QF in regards to the incident you experienced with them on the flight you described. All I can say is that you may be very surprised to find that flying on QF this time may not be as unpleasant as your past experience/s. May I also add that there are many ex-Ansett crew now flying for QF so you might see some familiar faces and smiles!

(btw Sick Squid please pardon the digression, I'll get back to the original topic now <g>)

As for Ansett's revival, for me personally I'd rather see a new airline come in with it's own identity. Ansett has left the aviation industry with dignity and respect and the last thing I want to see is another company attempt to make money by using the Ansett name (it's been tried before, and failed!!!).

I do recall not so long ago that Australia had 4 domestic airlines, not sustainable with our current population but that is not to say another 3rd operator would not be welcome. Just so long as they use their own name, and employ Aussie staff I'll be happy.

SG
:)

[peanut pusher]

We all loved the Ansetts and Pan Am's of the aviation world.
They did great service but failed when it came to maintance and running a business in changing times. One thing and one thing only dictates market share, PRICE. A customer will drop you for a $50 saving on a return economy ticket. I've been around al ong time as a f/a seen all types of services and crew levels and worked for two airlines. Travelled on 40 or more airlines and seen what they offer as service. All I can say is we can hold our head up 82 years never lost a life and in the top 4 most profitable airlines (Qantas). Ansett was great but underneath they were running a poor business that even lacked basic accounting and reporting procedures (quote from administators letter to f/flyers Jan 2002).
Time to move on everybody and get behind the two we have, many countries only have one domestic airline. The price of a ticket is cheaper today than it was 12 years ago SYD to MEL or SYD to PER. SYD to LHR cheaper than it was 14 years ago, some food for thought.

[skystar1]

Peanut Pusher
Thanks for your insight.

You seem to forget that there are thousands of flighties here in Oz who have had their wings clipped. Many would dearly love to fly our beautiful skies again. Be that with another AN or form of.........whatever, its a tiny chance to continue a lifelong dream.

Many have been knocked back by the "two we have" for unacceptable reasons. YOU are lucky...... YOU still have a job. However slim the hope is that they may fly once again is destroyed by pessimists like you. Its obvious there is no 'real' competition to QF. (I'm sure that's who you work for)

Virgin are a bloody circus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just allow some of us to continue for a while untill we know one way or another. Where there is a rough, outside chance that we may yet fly again. I know it may be a 'false hope'; Whether it happens or not, who knows, but we will find out in the not to distant future, and "look out" those who maintain their level of arrogance. For you own sakes, I hope you don't believe in 'Karma'.

When 'Australian' eventually pull your comfortable shag rug from under you you'll be cryin too.

GO SQ!!!!!!!!!! Cant wait........................

[tyra]

skystar, you are obviously one of the many who still hasnt regained employment in another airline, and with an attitude like yours, its hardly surprising. I too work for QF and I am not going to apologise for it. as for Virgin, leave them alone as they have a place in our aviation industry for whom ever chooses to fly with them. I really do feel for everyone who lost their jobs with Ansett but am lucky to have met some really wonderful people who have joined us. As for SQ, good luck to them! Oh by the way, Australian certainly will not pull the rug from under us!!

[skystar1]

Once again

QF ARROGANCE shines through!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nickmelb]

um tyra...without sounding like a complete idiot here..... what makes u think that from a forum u can tell whether or not someone has a bad attitude.....i thought this forum was for everyone to express their opinion without being jumped on by other prruners! hmmmmmm:p

[peanut pusher]

Skystar1....my post has nothing to do with ex Ansett f/a's.
It states facts that are of a nature relating to the current aviation climate and the way Ansett managers hide 4 years of poor management like the managers of Pan Am. I hope you get flying again I really do. Please ease off a bit, at QF we arn't against ex ansett staff we have taken on humdreds, I can tell you if Singapore make a move here and your over 30, over weight, tall, male or don't fit the SQ female mold you can also forget working for a wage anything like you had. Watch your aircraft serviced o/s and all the crew from SQ being brought out for 6mth secondments. Wish you luck in future flying applications, try us again sometimes we have eg.100 excellent people for 50 jobs, somebody has to miss out this time but doesn't mean they will next time. Chill

[cabinboy]

Skystar,
you comments regarding QF arrogance are a bit rough mate !

I for one have helped many ex ansett staff on this forum with QF recruitment info and interview questions/help. I highly doubt that is seen as arrogant to the ex ansett staff I have helped.

Just remember which airline carried 20,000 of your stranded pax home for free when AN went bust this time last year - arrogance ? no........ helping out a mate when in need ? YES

QF and AN had a very good relationship over the years, let's not ruin that on this forum.

Cabinboy

(edited due typo)

[ksd333]

I cannot believe the rubbish being written on this forum, when i joined, it was all about helping each other out, but this dribble re: ansett v qantas v virgin blue is just really a waste of time.
I take my hat off to all F/A's, it is not an easy job as some people presume, no matter who you work for.
I have chatted here with many people and helped with interview tips because i got the same help when i needed it and made my dream a reality this year.
I have met some ppruners, have kept in touch and become good friends with many and I now work with some aswell.
Lets not forget what this is all about and continue to help the people who log on here daily, watching and waiting for a bit of help or advice that may get them where they want to go.
Keep going guys, once you reach your goal it will all be worth it, i promise.

:D
On that note, Kendell (now REX) are recruiting for F/A's in Sydney.
Update your CV on cabincrew.staffcv.com and SEND!
Good Luck.

[one-ball]

in Dubai right now and haven't heard a thing about Ansett buzz in the air.

Huh?????

[tyra]

hi nickmelb, yeah I know I shouldnt think that about someone I dont know, but I just get a bit upset when people keep on branding QF as arrogant, or whatever and I guess on behalf of all my fellow collegues, I get my back up a bit! Any way, lets get back to the original topic subject regarding Ansett!!

[FloatJockey]

I still believe some people should scan carrots from a conveyor belt for a while ... just to discover what frustration is all about and help them getting rid of their arrogance... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

So you are ex Ansett... you had your "wings clipped"... and what makes you think you deserve a better chance than anybody else? Your previous experience and "lovely" attitude?
Thankfully I've met ex AN people that think differently: instead of expecting other airlines' compassion and preferential treatment, they are working hard towards getting another honest chance in the industry (pilots included) and they know competition is high. Work on yourself instead of blaming the airlines and criticizing happy QF workers! I'm sure learning another language, applying for other jobs in hospitaliy, applying to smaller airlines, making new friends in the industry, etc. can contribute to your success!
(I can't stress enough about the importance of NETWORKING! :D )

On the other hand, there are people in this country with great personality, excellent customer service, positive energy, foreign languages, motivation etc. etc. but no previous cabin crew experience. Do you think they get a fair chance? Do you hear them complaining? It is okay to blaim 911 for a while... then AN collapses and they remain on the bottom of the list because there are hundreds of qualified, unemployed ex AN workers to be interviewed and hired before them... still, after a year, half of the people turning up to the interviews I've been to where ex-AN!

I could mention at least 10 names of wannabes I've met through this forum that would be fantastic cabin crew!! They would work for ANY airline, would that be QF, VB, REX or anyone allowing them to realize their dream. They wouldn't complain about the money, roster, allocated base, seniority and all that stuff I hear ex-AN people complaining about, even before they start the job! (I however agree unions are important and the profession wouldn't be what it is today if it wasn't for the energy of many cabin crew fighting for their rights!).

Let's welcome SQ with open arms and hope they'll give us a fair go, by conducting a proper selection process... (to me "us" means ex AN workers, Australian wannabes, Asians, Europeans or Africans... in NO specific order, without discrimination!!)

...and YES, I believe in KARMA...

I invite you, SKYSTAR1, to read something I posted not long ago on this forum, called "Eternal Truths"... Good luck to you!

Mrs. FloatJockey

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick personal notes:

Thanks KSD333 for the info regarding REX. It's people like you that make this forum enjoyable ;) . (Btw, I hope you got my letter)

Peanut Pusher, I'm leaving around Oct. 20th... I need to check what the sky looks like on the other side... but I'll be back in a couple of years... ready to kick b**** with a bran new and shiny visa!! Uh! :cool:

[happyrainbow]

Where are you going?I really enjoyed reading your last post. Well said girl, keep that chin up:)

[nickmelb]

floaty! cant believe ur gng! did u get my email? tyra check your pvt messages!

back to the topic......go SQ go!

:p

[jupiter2]

Dont take it out on each other.
While working at the Ansett Headquarters in Melbourne, it was candidly discussed as early as July 2000, that "the business" was being closed down.
At a lunch with several key managers, it was joked to me that "I had better have a strong union in September next year".
I sat on those comments for a year, not believing for a second, that they would ever do it.
But they did!
It was apparently, one of the worst kept secrets in the aviation industry here in Australia as well, according to my sources in QF!
"The Business" was never going to make it out of this mess alive and I'll give you a first hand example of just one of the many contracts that were made by one of the last owners of the airline, before they sold to Air NZ.
While attempting to save costs in our catering, it was discovered that no reduction of the catering budget could be made, as guaranteed for a NINE YEAR period. This ridiculous deal was made to secure the sale of the catering department!
I'm sure that there are many more examples that others could tell about the insincere motivations of the owners of the time.
These "deals" could never be fulfilled as they just added another liability to the airline.
Ansett was correctly described as "asset rich but cash poor."
The assets were sold with a "delicious sense of urgency" by News Corp. because they could.
"Why wreck an airline?.......because it's wreckable!" famously quoted by Gordon Gecko from the movie "Wallstreet". The comments were made about a fictional airline featured in the movie named "Blue Star". This airline also had a large inventory of equipment and real estate, that were worth more seperately than bundled as a brand.
New airline start-ups are usually described as "virtual" for good reason, because they usually only own only the brand and lease everything else.
I realise that everyones coping mechanisms are different and we vent our spleens at inapproriate times.
Lets not blame the wrong people here.

[flightbunny]

mrs fj,

were are u going, i also sent u a pvt message...let us know..

will all miss u i'm sure!!!!:(

[Jotul]

I guess that is what can happen if a company allows its management at the highest level to be infiltrated by the oppositions management. Lucky buggars - drawing two salaries!.