Is the UK flight instructor industry heading for crisis?

[johni]

Flight instructor pay is stuck where it was 15-20 years ago (£45-£55 per flight hour)...

The CAA are deliberately making FI renewals hard in order to "improve standards"...

Hardly anyone is doing an FI course because it costs about £34,000 and the wage returns/career progression are just are not there...

Fewer and fewer people renewing their FI rating each year....

What does the future hold?

I would be interested to hear everyone's thoughts

[rudestuff]

Where on earth are you getting £34k from?!
Pre Covid I was offered an FI course for under £8k and they said I could pay £4k and work off the balance with them...

[johni]

£34,000 is what Helicentre quote.

I think It's 35 hours x £650 per hour, plus groundschool, plus VAT

Other schools probably cheaper, but I doubt they are under £25,000

[Jhieminga]

Is that FI(H) or FI(A)? I suspect that it's (H) as the rates for a fixed-wing hour are slightly lower.
Edit: just checked one provider, course costs less than £10k.

[johni]

£10,000 for 30 hours of flying + groundschool.

I find that very hard to believe, given even R22 dual PPL training is around £420 per hour everywhere now

[johni]

sloanehelicopters dot come

says £16,800 here.

I'm pretty sure that price list way out of date as R22 training is now £420-ish per hour everywhere

[Forest4ever]

....I paid £24K on R44 last year

[Hughes500]

I put one of my CPL's through then FIH course in May this year. Helicopter Services quoted around £ 20K Sloanes £ 17k all plus vat and on an R22 so no idea where £ 8 k comes from. As it happened went to helicopter Services with Leon as we were using one of my 300c's. Tom Sanderson did all the training one to one , i now have a very very good instructor !
As to rate of pay my instructor ( now a full one ) earns £ 300 a day but only if flying, has clocked up around 150 hours since passing back end of July

[johni]

Hughes500 - I think you are the only person in the UK paying day rates for FIs

[rudestuff]

Where on earth are you getting £34k from?!
Pre Covid I was offered an FI course for under £8k and they said I could pay £4k and work off the balance with them...
Yup, I'm a moron. Didn't notice it was in Rotorheads!

[Devil 49]

When I left flight instruction, that operator was training a fair few foreign students, about two thirds of his business, who would convert their American rating to their native licenses.
Specifically, I was told by one he could get a US RW CFI and have a nice vacation traveling America for the same price as doing the rating back home. Smart guy, retiired now and bought a ranch after his career.

[Ovc000]

The quote of 34k is quite high but hearing where it comes from, I understand it :-),
20k still sounds a like a lot but guess that's the price nowadays, I would have guessed something around 15-18k.

Most CPL(H) pilots nowadays try to get a commercial job first and rather invest in an IR instead of a FI(H).
With indeed the CAA making it harder and harder to stay an FI, people are giving up and that in combination with not many new FI's, will result in not having enough FI's to train new pilots.
As an FI there is more and more theoretical stuff you need to teach and as an FI you mainly get paid for flying hours so with the increase of theory, it will reduce the flying hours per day.
This doesn't make the FI job very attractive to pilots.
Also more and more people want to learn to fly helicopters, especially for just PPL(H) so more demand which makes it even harder.

Solution.......if there is one...?
The big companies (CHC, Bristow, air ambulances etc) will have the problems in the future, not getting enough new pilots. They should mainly hire people who at least did 1-2 years of instructing. Sounds harsh but that way you will produce FI's in the industry.
They can provide bonds for IR and type ratings but if there aren't FI's there won't be any pilots to put on a IR or typerating...
How it is now, it will be a slowly increasing problem....
Another thing that could cause a problem in the future, CPL examiners and FI examiners.......

[muermel]

Gemany is the same. The FI-H here is probably around 35.000 Euros, and pay is a joke. I receive a monthly allowance of 150 Euro gross pay on top of my base salary and I "only" paid around 11.000 Euros back in 2016 with Sloane in the UK on the 22. I can teach PPL and CPL btw. and have 4 current types with more than 3000 hours. Just ridiculous.... wouldn't recommend it to anyone nowadays and sure as hell wouldn't do it again.

[Pittsextra]

£34,000 is what Helicentre quote.

I think It's 35 hours x £650 per hour, plus groundschool, plus VAT

Other schools probably cheaper, but I doubt they are under £25,000

Not that I over think this but I've never known if Helicentre is a sausage factory for the benefit of Helicentre or if there really is something in the way they do business. The scholarships must have been going for a decade or more I guess, do these pilots go on to rewarding careers in the main? I suspect that the answer to that likely answers the OP initial point.

[Jhieminga]

Yup, I'm a moron. Didn't notice it was in Rotorheads!
Yeah... same here! 😆

[LongStoryShort]

Gemany is the same. The FI-H here is probably around 35.000 Euros, and pay is a joke. I receive a monthly allowance of 150 Euro gross pay on top of my base salary and I "only" paid around 11.000 Euros back in 2016 with Sloane in the UK on the 22. I can teach PPL and CPL btw. and have 4 current types with more than 3000 hours. Just ridiculous.... wouldn't recommend it to anyone nowadays and sure as hell wouldn't do it again.

Hi, just out of interest may I ask whether there is a difference in pay whether you are instructing at a local airfield or at a commercial flight school?

[SFIM]

The CAA are deliberately making FI renewals hard in order to "improve standards"...

not just for the FI-H they are doing it for the FE-H as well,

​​​​​​​its definitely something when you see people who have been doing this stuff for 20-30 years who are now frightened of renewals, and talk about giving the whole thing up..

[hargreaves99]

I wonder if the people in charge of Heli renewals at the CAA are reading this. I would hope so.

[Ovc000]

Not only do FI's doing this for 20-30 years get frightened, some even don't want the extra stress anymore and possibility to fail a test after 20-30 years and they give up their FI, resulting in less FI's but a huge loss in knowledge and experience .
New FI's of course are capable but I always like it when a school has a few older FI's with experience and knowledge where another FI can go for guidance/answers etc.
I understand the higher standard the UK CAA wants but the result will be a lower standard on the practical side.....

[Shahad]

Quick side questions for you knowledgeable folks, would I be able to carry out my FI rating part time e.g. 1 hour a week?

[Hughes500]

no is the short answer , think of teaching someone to drive a car need to do it more often than over 30 weeks

[flight beyond sight]

Quick side questions for you knowledgeable folks, would I be able to carry out my FI rating part time e.g. 1 hour a week?
No school would accept you as it has to be a continuous course

[Sir Korsky]

Out of interest, how many helicopter CFI's are there in the UK ?

[hargreaves99]

It's hard to tell. As this also includes type rating instructors in VIP, Offshore, Police and HEMS roles.

At a rough guess...there are about 20 PPL/CPL schools in the uk (ie R22/R44/Cabri), so at an average of 4 instructors per school, that means about 80-100 instructors who are working?

Although I think there are more people who have the FI rating but don't use it, or it's expired.



Out of interest, how many helicopter CFI's are there in the UK ?

[Hughes500]

Must be more than 20 schools surely ?

[hargreaves99]

Looks to be about 20, of course, some could have closed, and others don't do heli training (eg North Weald)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x685/1_59ae097a322db1a2bbb9daafb9284ffca1508c7f.jpg



https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x634/2_97e56df3ee3a73de7b26a46a184b2e119856093c.jpg

[jeepys]

It's hard to tell. As this also includes type rating instructors in VIP, Offshore, Police and HEMS roles.

At a rough guess...there are about 20 PPL/CPL schools in the uk (ie R22/R44/Cabri), so at an average of 4 instructors per school, that means about 80-100 instructors who are working?

Although I think there are more people who have the FI rating but don't use it, or it's expired.

Does that include DTO's?
However many instructors are out there, I expect at least a third of them will be engaged in commercial work or doing it part time and therefore not full time instructors. It's more likely these guys will give it up if the going gets too tough.

[Hughes500]

Well my school isnt on the map ( 3 of us ) Glouscter airport has 3 schools there as an example

[hargreaves99]

Most of the FIs I know are part-time and have "real" jobs/pensions/rich spouses/other income, instructing is just a hobby for them, as full-time instructing very rarely pays enough to live on (unless you are single with cheap rent), especially in the South East of the UK






Does that include DTO's?
However many instructors are out there, I expect at least a third of them will be engaged in commercial work or doing it part time and therefore not full time instructors. It's more likely these guys will give it up if the going gets too tough.

[Shahad]

....I paid £24K on R44 last year

Did that include the R44 Type Rating?

[Fark'n'ell]

Hourly rate for an r22 is around 340.00 pounds here in NZ

[Forest4ever]

…no already had R44 TR..

[HeliMannUK]

At a rough guess...there are about 20 PPL/CPL schools in the uk (ie R22/R44/Cabri), so at an average of 4 instructors per school, that means about 80-100 instructors who are working?

Although I think there are more people who have the FI rating but don't use it, or it's expired.

I've let mine expire due to job but I was the only instructor at 2 schools I used to work at. Also two other schools only have 1 instructor I know of. So maybe lower numbers than you first thought.
​​

[Shahad]

I've let mine expire due to job but I was the only instructor at 2 schools I used to work at. Also two other schools only have 1 instructor I know of. So maybe lower numbers than you first thought.
​​

That's interesting, roughly how many hours would you fly per year? And if you don't mind sharing, what was the average rate per hour?

[hargreaves99]

That's interesting, roughly how many hours would you fly per year? And if you don't mind sharing, what was the average rate per hour?

.....

Flight instructor pay is stuck where it was 15-20 years ago (£45-£55 per flight hour)...

[HeliMannUK]

That's interesting, roughly how many hours would you fly per year? And if you don't mind sharing, what was the average rate per hour?

I think 200-400 hours without checking my logbook. I do remember £60 per hour with a £600 per month retainer. First ten hours a month was taken from the retainer!

[hargreaves99]

It looks like UK flight instruction pays about £20-£30k a year, if done full time. With very little progression to bigger/better things.

Offshore co-pilots start on £60k+. £100k+ once you get command.

Offshore companies don't care about R22 hours, they just want young people with a valid IR

This is why people are not becoming instructors.

[johni]

I hear the main guy at the CAA is leaving, the chap responsible for the "new regime" of FI testing

[FloaterNorthWest]

I hear the main guy at the CAA is leaving, the chap responsible for the "new regime" of FI testing

He is

[staticsource]

I hear the main guy at the CAA is leaving, the chap responsible for the "new regime" of FI testing

He didn’t mention anything last month when I renewed my FE with him?

[DAHenriques]

Reading through this thread it's hard to rationalize the vast changes and paradigm shift within the flight training community since I came up as an instructor in the United States.
I paid by the hour and came through the program via FAA Part 61 all the way. I doubt if my total expenses for all my certificates exceeded more that $5 or $6K dollars.
It's absolutely unbelievable the expense one has to endure these days related to aviation. I am in deep sympathy with my friends world wide, especially in the UK.
It's a wonder anyone even wants to be a flight instructor any more. I realize it's a pathway to higher ambition but believe it or not there were and I hope still are those who would seek the instructor rating because they enjoy teaching. The expense path for these people can be very high with a doubtful future as the reward.
Dudley Henriques

[johni]

Almost nobody in the the UK goes into teaching for the love of it. They go into it because they want to build hours, or because they can't afford a £60,000+ Instrument Rating

[DAHenriques]

Almost nobody in the the UK goes into teaching for the love of it. They go into it because they want to build hours, or because they can't afford a £60,000+ Instrument Rating

Sad really, as the instructor rating SHOULD BE one of the most important stand alone ratings in all of aviation, but alas............it it far from being that.
Why it is this way is a whole new subject; LOL.
DH

[meleagertoo]

Three schools in E Anglia not on that map too.

[ROTORVATION]

In short, yes!

Why...

1) Cost 20K Nett for an FI course; remuneration circa £55-60 per flight hour, although I have seen one organisation recently offering £100 / Hr, but this is uncommon. Financially it's challenging to justify it.
2) A over-burdensome regulatory regime and an authority with employees who can't wrap their faculties around the fact there's more than one way to do something to an acceptable standard.
3) General consensus of some of the more established FI's around the industry appears to be a feeling of "What's the Point", because they're tired of the onerous paperwork and the constant fighting against the regulator.
4) Probably fair to say that the availability of Multi Engine Instructors (Except Maybe H135 fleet) is limited, and the cost barrier to obtaining the more advanced qualifications such as TRI AS355 / TRI AW109 means there's no-one coming through the system.
5) Inconsistent work patterns does not lend itself well to family life.

Just my tuppence worth.

[hargreaves99]

If pay had even kept pace with inflation (ie. it should be £70-£100 per hour) the industry wouldn't be in this state.

[Nineteen84]

I think we'll see more sponsorships from the north sea operators to take CPL's through to an FO role, rather than relying on CPL's gaining experience via an FI