Proposal to resurrect Finningley Air Show

[Finningley Boy]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/talks-to-take-place-over-proposal-to-return-finningley-air-show-to-doncaster-3979581

This proposal has, it would appear, been given the time of day, tentatively. I'm not at all sure if it would be a direct resumption of the RAF Battle of Britain "At Home" Day, but would be great if it was. However, if it grows legs at all I imagine more an attempt to ressurect the one off Scampton Air Show in 2017. If so, hopefully with a greater degree of success.

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[DaveReidUK]

"will discuss the matter after being approached by a Doncaster aviation enthusiast"

Hmmm.

[PapaDolmio]

Can't see it happening myself. Didn't Teeside try it and it was a complete flop?

[MPN11]

And the funding comes from where? Discuss.

[Dan Gerous]

Can't see it happening myself. Didn't Teeside try it and it was a complete flop?

.I went down to Teeside a couple of years, but the aircraft were based there as part of the Sunderland seaside air display.

[SWBKCB]

Can't see it happening myself. Didn't Teeside try it and it was a complete flop?

No - that was Teesside. :rolleyes:

Main issue was inexperienced organisers not involving the appropriate authorities to manage the traffic, leading to grid lock. Ticket sales were healthy but lots of people missed the show.

[ExAvioncs]

I don't know how profitable Church Fenton show this year was. I enjoyed it and,despite clashing with RIAT, it seemed busy enough.

[gsa]

No - that was Teesside. :rolleyes:

Main issue was inexperienced organisers not involving the appropriate authorities to manage the traffic, leading to grid lock. Ticket sales were healthy but lots of people missed the show.

And the show was rubbish, I would have rather been stuck in the traffic watching a film than in the so called show to watch the pitiful spectacle that it was. It was a wasted day in my life I won’t get back

[ShyTorque]

Having been taken to my first Farnborough Air Display in 1961, when they were very much worth seeing and subsequently flown in a few others myself, I think that most have sadly had their best years. Rather than the exciting and impressive spectacle they used to be, they are now mainly about business, quietness, economy and low emissions.

[Finningley Boy]

Having been taken to my first Farnborough Air Display in 1961, when they were very much worth seeing and subsequently flown in a few others myself, I think that most have sadly had their best years. Rather than the exciting and impressive spectacle they used to be, they are now mainly about business, quietness, economy and low emissions.
That seems to be very true, RIAT seems to be about the only "airshow" left in the UK, in terms of current military representation that is. One thing that seems to be a current feature of the Seaside shows is the hype and the build up to the appearance of the Typhoon. RAFCTE could get involved with Finningley, but they also were involved with the Scampton 2017 air show. I imagine the ;latter flopped, to much acclaim (initially) of its success, because the RIAT team took a wholly different approach to the flying content..Everything else was RIAT on a scale down arrangement. There was talk of wanting to produce a family event, never a good sign.

FB

[Herod]

There is still Cosford, which is I believe, the only show at an active RAF airfield. This year a shadow of its former self, but high hopes for ,24.

[Ninthace]

And a loose interpretation of "active" too!

[Tashengurt]

I just don't think airshows have that "Ooh, aah!" factor anymore. Too few types around.

[Krystal n chips]

Aren't there certain rules about displaying over built up areas ...such as housing estates / retail and industrial parks for example ?

[DuncanDoenitz]

I just don't think airshows have that "Ooh, aah!" factor anymore. Too few types around.
Sadly, absence of these types in the UK/Europe might support your view; Vulcan, Shacklebomber, Phantom, Harrier, Lightning, A-10, Starfighter, (RAF) Hercules etc.

Fortunately, these types currently flying or anticipated in the UK/Europe, might deserve your consideration; Hawker Tempest Mk II, A-4 Shyhawk, L159, Vampire, Tunnan, Lansen, Draken, Viggen, Buchon, BF109 (not a Buchon), FW190, B-17. A second UK Lancaster? A MiG15. And yes, actually, still a Starfighter.

And deserving its own line, imho, Me262.

I honestly don't think we've ever been more up-to-our-arse in classic aeroplanes.

[OvertHawk]

Aren't there certain rules about displaying over built up areas ...such as housing estates / retail and industrial parks for example ?

Explained quite clearly in the letter from the BADA quoted in the article in the OP.

[DogTailRed2]

I live in the South so Finningley wouldn't have much of a draw for me. I attended Church Fenton this year and I enjoyed it but the distance, cost of booking rooms, fuel, time means that it may be an occasional treat rather than a yearly event however as there are very few air shows in the South these days I may have to travel if I want to see a decent show.
I wish the organisers well but unless they can put on something very special I doubt I will bother.
What aircraft can we display at an RAF at home day?
Typhoon
Hawk
Some prop trainers
Maybe a Rivet Joint thingy.
Other than that just military civilian types.
Most exciting thing would probably be the BBMF.

[Herod]

If you want to see classics, and it's not too far from the "sarf", take a look at the Shuttleworth at Old Warden. Even on non-display days it's worth a visit, and I can recommend the evening show. Not a lot of "oooh, ah" and noise, but a lot of nostalgia.

[Finningley Boy]

I live in the South so Finningley wouldn't have much of a draw for me. I attended Church Fenton this year and I enjoyed it but the distance, cost of booking rooms, fuel, time means that it may be an occasional treat rather than a yearly event however as there are very few air shows in the South these days I may have to travel if I want to see a decent show.
I wish the organisers well but unless they can put on something very special I doubt I will bother.
What aircraft can we display at an RAF at home day?
Typhoon
Hawk
Some prop trainers
Maybe a Rivet Joint thingy.
Other than that just military civilian types.
Most exciting thing would probably be the BBMF.
Possibly F-35. A-400, C-17, Prefect, Texan, k the latter two are prop Trainers but why not?!

[SWBKCB]

Possibly F-35. A-400, C-17, Prefect, Texan, k the latter two are prop Trainers but why not?!

How many of these are routinely put forward by the RAF for display purposes? My understand that displaying is now a specific task and you can only get what is allocated, so the standard Typhoon, etc

[Finningley Boy]

How many of these are routinely put forward by the RAF for display purposes? My understand that displaying is now a specific task and you can only get what is allocated, so the standard Typhoon, etc
There is nothing to stop the RAF allocating any of the aircraft I mentioned for display flying. All the predeccesors of those mentioned were often seen. Hercules, all fast jets and trainers, Nimrods, VC-10s, V-Bombers, Shackletons, all were regulars at air shows. The aircraft which have taken over from that lot are not routinely allocated for display flying for a variety of reasons I expect. One will be operational commitments, but operational commitments have always been ever present and the priority. The other, apart from tighter budgeting, is simply culture change. Or what the RAF perceive as a sufficient effort to maintain positive public appeal. What I can't understand is, why they have allocated the F-35B to make very pedestrian and restrained flybys over Cosford and Fairford for the last couple of years or so.

FB

[Easy Street]

What I can't understand is, why they have allocated the F-35B to make very pedestrian and restrained flybys over Cosford and Fairford for the last couple of years or so.

Because the F35 squadrons are busily trying to train new pilots and instructors for a growing force, while maintaining readiness for ops. And at least as importantly, as the inquiry into the QE accident observed, there are too few engineers on the squadrons for the size of the flying and operational readiness task as it is without adding a display workup and display season to the list. I presume the RAF has decided it would rather the aircraft been seen making pedestrian and restrained flybys (which is all the regulations allow without a display workup and all the supervisory overhead that goes with it) than not seen at all.

[Finningley Boy]

Because the F35 squadrons are busily trying to train new pilots and instructors for a growing force, while maintaining readiness for ops. And at least as importantly, as the inquiry into the QE accident observed, there are too few engineers on the squadrons for the size of the flying and operational readiness task as it is without adding a display workup and display season to the list. I presume the RAF has decided it would rather the aircraft been seen making pedestrian and restrained flybys (which is all the regulations allow without a display workup and all the supervisory overhead that goes with it) than not seen at all.
The same restriction in 2019 saw a more robust "flypast" at least. Showing off the thrust vector seems to sum up the F-35B.

[OvertHawk]

The same restriction in 2019 saw a more robust "flypast" at least. Showing off the thrust vector seems to sum up the F-35B.

I know that "back when you were a lad" life and assets were cheap and plentiful...

Now they're not.

We've got an air force pared to the bone and anyone in their right mind that looks at what the current service is working with and says " you should be putting more effort into air displays" is quite frankly delusional!

[Finningley Boy]

I know that "back when you were a lad" life and assets were cheap and plentiful...

Now they're not.

We've got an air force pared to the bone and anyone in their right mind that looks at what the current service is working with and says " you should be putting more effort into air displays" is quite frankly delusional!
That's right, we've reached a parlous state alright, struggling with personnel retention, struggling to get a penny packet of aeroplanes, no matter how complex, into an operational state and a single brakes on flypast by one of them at the weekend is seen as the present day equivelant of the Pterodactyl Loop!

The "you're only interested air displays" argument is a thin skinned reflex. It was always the case before and should be now, if you're going to place the service on show in public, make it worth while! As for the one and only operational "display" the Typhoon, the RAF might save some much needed cash by not frittering it on gaudy coloured paint.😁

FB

[pr00ne]

Seeing as the airfield owner, Peel, has closed the airfield to any flying operations and dismissed all the Air Traffic staff, this proposal is highly unlikely, actually more like totally impossible!

[Finningley Boy]

Seeing as the airfield owner, Peel, has closed the airfield to any flying operations and dismissed all the Air Traffic staff, this proposal is highly unlikely, actually more like totally impossible!
Sounds like this Mulholland chap is being strung along?

FB

[VictorGolf]

And the relatively nearby Flying Legends 2024 has been cancelled.

[Finningley Boy]

And the relatively nearby Flying Legends 2024 has been cancelled.
They reckon 2025 is still on the cards. The same was said about the Scampton Air Show in 2017, after the hype smoke screen faded and revealed that the event wasn't quite as successful as was originally fiercely claimed to have been, there was an eventual announcement, well and truly belated, that there wouldn't be a Scampton Air Show in 2018. But, the ambition was to hold one in 2019, and the rest as they say, is history.

FB:}

[DogTailRed2]

One of the problems is that air shows have become a victim of their own success.
Climbing into the `way back` machine for a moment The Fighter Meet at Weald in 89 had two P51's. Probably a Spitfire. Stalwarts like the RNHF, BBMF and not much else.
Yes, I'm sure the list was bigger (I can recall a black still in service Hunter) but there wasn't a lot of stuff. Some stalls. A few planes. Good commentary and that was it.
Of course your show could be spiced up with some quite nice RAF types like the Vulcan, Tornado, Jaguar, Shackleton and so on now all sadly gone.
Fuel was cheap. Entry was cheap and life was relatively cheap.
Now shows, and life is expensive. Not for what you get (you get an awesome line up of warbirds, not much modern though) but still a big chunk out of the average families budget. Blame that on the government.
I also think that the people that went to shows are now like me. Old and pot bellied. They haven't got the same draw as they used too for younger generations.
So for a show to work it needs to have a local fan base it can drawer on. Be relatively cheap, cheerful, fun and, gonna get some flack for this, be down south where most of the money is.
Hence Old Warden, Duxford, Lashenden. RIAT et al.

[Thorley1969]

Although too young to have seen the airshows of the 50s and 60s where huge formations would take to the skies, I still feel fortunate to have seen what was around in the 80s and up to the 90s (where family took priority over airshow attendance)
North Weald Fighter Meet was usually the first attendance on the calendar with a healthy mixture of old and new (a spirited performance by a fairly newish Tornado F2 in 86)
Next was the legendary Mildenhall Air Fete which was in a league of its own with its infamous hospitality (Bud and a wet burger)
This was back when the Cold War (original one) was still full on and the skies of East Anglia were almost solid aluminium.
Those days are gone and with numbers of aircraft very much down, the airshows of the past are just that. The only exception maybe RIAT but even that is a shadow of its former self.
Just my take.

[Finningley Boy]

My own first experience of an air show was at the place in question, Finningley, 1962, perched on dad's shoulders watching the Vulcan Scramble. All anti-flash white. I can still remember the air cadet or airman, running along the side of the car as we went to park, thrusting a copy of the Battle of Britain Souvenir Magazine through the open window in exchange for a few shekels and mum remarking about how cold it was. Trips down memory lane, happen more often these days.:ok:

FB

[DuncanDoenitz]

I think we were in the car behind yours, FB. The annual pilgrimage!

[Finningley Boy]

I think we were in the car behind yours, FB. The annual pilgrimage!
Indeed the same for us, a very different time, 61 years ago. I was thinking, 61 years before then the aeroplane didn't exist!:eek:

FB

[Herod]

Cosford, 1952. Aged five. Fell in love with aeroplanes way back then.

[DogTailRed2]

Cosford, 1952. Aged five. Fell in love with aeroplanes way back then.
Did they chop all their airliners? The museum didn't have many last time I visited.

[Herod]

Did they chop all their airliners? The museum didn't have many last time I visited.
DogTai;Red2. It's not an airliner museum, and I believe those that were there were chopped up many years ago by Big Airways. It's a Royal Air Force museum, hence the title.

[jumpseater]

Sounds like this Mulholland chap is being strung along?

FB

Well the article you’ve linked to is only a couple of weeks off being a year old, 9th Jan 23… At that time the airport had only been closed four weeks

Assuming the airport stayed open, an air show to contemporary safety standards at the site would be very difficult to manage, and even prior to Shoreham and subsequent changes would have been impractical due infrastructure and commercial operations.

[Finningley Boy]

Well the article you’ve linked to is only a couple of weeks off being a year old, 9th Jan 23… At that time the airport had only been closed four weeks

Assuming the airport stayed open, an air show to contemporary safety standards at the site would be very difficult to manage, and even prior to Shoreham and subsequent changes would have been impractical due infrastructure and commercial operations.
Its the first time I'd seen this article and found it most unlikely that anyone would give this chap the time of day given all the insurmountable factors. It would be interesting to know if the matter has yet reached a conclusion?

FB