Ryanair pricing... new costs or computer error?

[Jhieminga]

Just turned up on BBC news... could be a computer error or a new pricing strategy by O'Leary. Passengers are unable to access a digital boarding pass unless they pay for a seat. With a randomly assigned seat, they could only collect a printed boarding pass at the airport desk.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67613343

[morton]

It was in The Mail on Sunday (yesterday), page 40.

[DaveReidUK]

Ryanair trying it on ...

[bobbytables]

Does it maybe allow them to push the random assignment of seats as late as possible, keeping more seats unassigned for longer, and thus increasing the chance that someone who is willing to pay will find their preferred seat?

[36050100]

This random seat stuff is a safety issue. Imagine a family on a budget being split up in the cabin. In the event of an evacuation, the father isn't going to go directly to his nearest exit if his family are elsewhere in the cabin, he'll be potentially going against the flow. One day, this will bite someone on the @rse.

[Noxegon]

This random seat stuff is a safety issue. Imagine a family on a budget being split up in the cabin. In the event of an evacuation, the father isn't going to go directly to his nearest exit if his family are elsewhere in the cabin, he'll be potentially going against the flow. One day, this will bite someone on the @rse.

Completely agreed. I'm genuinely surprised that the regulators haven't done something about this.

[mustafagander]

If an operator like this one wants it, it must be bad for you.

[bobbytables]

Completely agreed. I'm genuinely surprised that the regulators haven't done something about this.

I thought that having a policy of children being seated together with accompanying adults was required to get your operator certificate. Another one is that an adult cannot be seated in an exit row if they are responsible for a child on the aircraft (no matter where the child is seated). Of course, having a policy and consistently implementing it are not the same thing.

also worth noting that for these policies, “together” usually includes adjacent seats across the aisle and also in front or behind

[Spunky Monkey]

I thought that having a policy of children being seated together with accompanying adults was required to get your operator certificate. Another one is that an adult cannot be seated in an exit row if they are responsible for a child on the aircraft (no matter where the child is seated). Of course, having a policy and consistently implementing it are not the same thing.

also worth noting that for these policies, “together” usually includes adjacent seats across the aisle and also in front or behind

Then the regulator needs to start doing some 'Secret Shopper' trials and if the airline is found at fault then they have 7 days to sort, or their operator licence will be revoked.
In the UK we have too many regulators that are in name only, they take the cash but do very little to improve the situation for the people who pay their wages - the UK population.
Ofwat is a prime example of this.

[cockpitvisit]

According to the BBC article:
Another traveller on social media said that staff at the airport check-in desk told them the new policy was only for the last 20 passengers checking in for a flight, and the charge had been introduced in the past few days.
A useful trick (as a pax) in the past was to check in shortly before the check in deadline, because by that time, only the best (most expensive) seats would remain available and you would often get an exit row for free. I guess Ryanair tries to make people check in early by this change.

[FarTooManyUsers]

This random seat stuff is a safety issue. Imagine a family on a budget being split up in the cabin. In the event of an evacuation, the father isn't going to go directly to his nearest exit if his family are elsewhere in the cabin, he'll be potentially going against the flow. One day, this will bite someone on the @rse.

Yes, it absolutely is a safety issue. The Royal Aeronautical Society have even written about the danger of separating family groups.

But the CAA won't do anything to stop Low Cost Carriers actively separating family groups for their commercial advantage.

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/updated-raes-passenger-evacuation-paper-now-available/

[FUMR]

I never have complaints about Ryanair. I simply avoid flying with them! Perhaps more people should consider that option?

[Jhieminga]

Same here, never flown them, but that's why I'm also unable to judge whether this is a serious attempt to shake down their customers for more cash, or whether there is another reason for the observation. My gut feeling says 'Ryanair trying it on' as has been mentioned earlier. They are skating on thin ice, trying to juggle serious safety issues and the boundaries of consumer legislation, or so it appears. On the one hand, sometimes you need a company/person to push the boundaries a bit, but the flip side makes me wonder where the benefit of this particular action is, other than in inflating O'Leary's bank account.

[megapete]

I thought that having a policy of children being seated together with accompanying adults was required to get your operator certificate. Another one is that an adult cannot be seated in an exit row if they are responsible for a child on the aircraft (no matter where the child is seated). Of course, having a policy and consistently implementing it are not the same thing.

also worth noting that for these policies, “together” usually includes adjacent seats across the aisle and also in front or behind

Of course that does not stop a father being with one sibling and a mother being elsewhere in the plane with another. It seems that people will not leave their luggage behind during evacuation and yet it seems they are expected to leave their loved ones. I thought this was identified as a problem in the Manchester aircraft fire and yet...................

[meleagertoo]

I think Ryanair's rationale is that there aren't enough people (daft enough) to buy allocated seating so that revenue stream isn't performing - and some toxic little grey-faced gnome in the accounts department has had a brainwave - to make pax's lives so utterly miserable and fearful by threatening to subject them to lengthy, uncomfortable and hated queues at checkin with the added incentive of worrying if you're going to miss the flight (which is of course also to Ryanair's great financial advantage) thus inducing/co-ercing/bullying/frightening pax into coughing up for the outrageous allocated seating. $$Ker-ching$$
It also shows up the nasty cynical ripoff of charging £20 for an airport-provided boarding pass (perhaps because you've comitted the social crime of not posessing a smartphone) - when this new policy sees them dishing the damn things out en masse for free - so what was the justificaton of the £20 charge, except cynical opportunistic ripoff?

Having originally set off ostensibly trying to make air travel easier and more accessible they have now realised that by means of a total volte-face and turning it nasty and awkward they can extract yet more cash form their long-suffering victims.

What a revolting commercial morality these people have.

[dixi188]

When you check in on line you haven't really checked in as the airline doesn't know if you'll show up for the flight, (missed connection, car crash, heart attack, family emergency). You only really check in when you are scanned at the airport, so what is the point of online check in.
I remember when you used to re-confirm a booking 48 hrs before the flight.

[DaveReidUK]

When you check in on line you haven't really checked in as the airline doesn't know if you'll show up for the flight, (missed connection, car crash, heart attack, family emergency). You only really check in when you are scanned at the airport, so what is the point of online check in.
I remember when you used to re-confirm a booking 48 hrs before the flight.

The point at which you check in is when you abandon what little chance you might have had of a refund or rebooking should you, for whatever reason, be unable to fly.

[krismiler]

I remember when you used to re-confirm a booking 48 hrs before the flight.

So do I and back in those days tickets had coupons which had to be pulled out for each sector.

[brak]

Of course that does not stop a father being with one sibling and a mother being elsewhere in the plane with another. It seems that people will not leave their luggage behind during evacuation and yet it seems they are expected to leave their loved ones. I thought this was identified as a problem in the Manchester aircraft fire and yet...................

Nor does it stop adult children (16+?) being seated separately or husband and wife, or people not in a formal relationship. But in all those cases one of them might try to reach the other(s) in case of an emergency. Groups of travelers should be able to be seated together irrespective of the legal relationship. But it will not happen because it is literally one of the most basic sources of income for the airlines now, and not just the lowcost-ers. For example - TK will randomly assigne a seat to their Y passengers, and it *cannot* be changed at all, if so)

[artee]

Then the regulator needs to start doing some 'Secret Shopper' trials and if the airline is found at fault then they have 7 days to sort, or their operator licence will be revoked.
In the UK we have too many regulators that are in name only, they take the cash but do very little to improve the situation for the people who pay their wages - the UK population.
Ofwat is a prime example of this.
Exactly. This is a feature of NeoLiberalism © - defund the regulator to such an extent that there's a snowball's chance... of random or diligent inspections to ensure compliance.

/rant

[nina wang]

Flew with them once. Determined not to make the mistake twice.

[Sober Lark]

Flew with them once. Determined not to make the mistake twice.

I can fly Dublin to Malta for EUR24. I don't mind paying EUR18 for my preferred seat up front. There are 5 people here who won't fly Ryanair and off site there are 180 million who do. Ryanair has carried over 1 billion passengers without loss of a single life. How many airlines have achieved that safety record?

I fly Lufthansa Dublin to Frankfurt, I'll pay EUR130 and a seat reservation costs EUR20. I know they probably won't be on time, they may cancel the flight and if they do, customer service is deplorable.

[DaveReidUK]

So do I and back in those days tickets had coupons which had to be pulled out for each sector.

In those days there were tickets ... :O

[FUMR]

You are comparing 5 posters on this thread who don't with 180 million who do. A very balanced comparison! I would in fact suggest that a great deal more than 180 million don't fly with Ryanair.

[FarTooManyUsers]

I think Ryanair's rationale is that there aren't enough people (daft enough) to buy allocated seating so that revenue stream isn't performing - and some toxic little grey-faced gnome in the accounts department has had a brainwave - to make pax's lives so utterly miserable and fearful by threatening to subject them to lengthy, uncomfortable and hated queues at checkin with the added incentive of worrying if you're going to miss the flight (which is of course also to Ryanair's great financial advantage) thus inducing/co-ercing/bullying/frightening pax into coughing up for the outrageous allocated seating. $$Ker-ching$$
It also shows up the nasty cynical ripoff of charging £20 for an airport-provided boarding pass (perhaps because you've comitted the social crime of not posessing a smartphone) - when this new policy sees them dishing the damn things out en masse for free - so what was the justificaton of the £20 charge, except cynical opportunistic ripoff?

Having originally set off ostensibly trying to make air travel easier and more accessible they have now realised that by means of a total volte-face and turning it nasty and awkward they can extract yet more cash form their long-suffering victims.

What a revolting commercial morality these people have.

I'm perfectly happy when airlines use charges to align the passenger interests and the company's interests - so a reasonable airport check in fee that reflects the cost to the airline of having staff and desk space at the airport - absolutely. This means that other passengers don't end up effectively paying for services that they don't consume.

Ryanair charging 55 gbp / euro for checking in at the airport - that's just nasty.

https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/fees

[Bull at a Gate]

Don’t get much chance to fly Ryanair, but when we do we find them a great way to fly. Follow their rules and you will pay a tiny amount of money for a service which is exactly as advertised. The alternative is a full cost carrier which often delivers a low cost service.

[Eutychus]

Don’t get much chance to fly Ryanair, but when we do we find them a great way to fly. Follow their rules and you will pay a tiny amount of money for a service which is exactly as advertised. The alternative is a full cost carrier which often delivers a low cost service.

My son recently booked a long-haul flight with a flag carrier which he chose for their attractive price over the route. Only when he sent the travel details to us did he notice that the attractive price was because he had picked the default ticket option which included no hold luggage - for a flight of over 10,000km!

In other words, it's not just Ryanair that play fast and loose with their booking systems.

I've flown Ryanair quite a lot, have been (very) delayed only once and have always found one gets what one pays for, provided one reads the small print carefully.

(Ryanair also gave me one of my most exciting takeoffs ever back in the day with quite an empty plane, what must have been an ex-air force pilot and I guess a B737-200. Took off like a scared cat).

[Sober Lark]

You are comparing 5 posters on this thread who don't with 180 million who do. A very balanced comparison! I would in fact suggest that a great deal more than 180 million don't fly with Ryanair.

Brilliant reply.

and... more than 80% of the world's population has never flown.

[DaveReidUK]

You are comparing 5 posters on this thread who don't with 180 million who do.

Let's hope that all the latter don't now decide to post. :O

[blind pew]

In the old days customers would buy several tickets for the same day especially on Fridays on BA and would claim a full refund on those not used. The mean no show was 12% on the code share route LHR -ZRH. Was a question of commuters being able to travel on an earlier or later flight depending on time of finishing work.
RIO would be far more of a problem when they had rampant inflation as the locals bought tickets in local currency when they got paid and cashed them in when they needed the money at the new exchange rate as the tickets were priced in USD.
I had one of the first flights which included airport printed tickets..the staff hadn’t heard of it at Nimes..mind you they are french (moi Aussie b4 I get any flack.
Dublin on the way out had introduced the hand baggage mafia for the first time since before covid.good.
Happy to fly with O’Leary’s lot but will never use the trump coloured airline again and avoid my old lot after a disastrous trip to the gulf.
It’s a terrible shame imho that the french stopped FR expansion there..destroyed tourism and 8? Years on Nimes in just getting back on its feet.
Sadly I have to pay a massive premium if I decide to travel the next couple of days ..as in 2000% on my last trip.

[FUMR]

I fly Lufthansa Dublin to Frankfurt, I'll pay EUR130 and a seat reservation costs EUR20. I know they probably won't be on time, they may cancel the flight and if they do, customer service is deplorable.

Are you suggesting Ryanair never cancel flights?

[beardy]

I have flown, as captain (not in RYANAIR), with many FOs who had been trained by RYANAIR and found their skills and knowledge to be excellent. I believe that their training dept to be very good indeed, that makes them a safe airline to fly with. The rest is money and expectations.

[listria]

In terms of splitting families, I was a passenger on Ryanair yesterday. The aisle seat was occupied by a child of 8 or 9 years who flopped onto the tray table for the whole 3 hour flight and was very difficult to wake up when I went to the toilet . He appeared drugged, to be honest. I've no idea where his family were and they didn't visit him for the whole flight.
IF there had been a serious emergency involving an evacuation one wonders what would have happened.
​​​​​​(the other thought that occurs to me after the event is that he may have been a victim of trafficking, he really was doped out...I wish I'd brought it to the attention of the cabin crew)

[Charlie_Fox]

I don't believe that Ryanair has tray tables.....

[soarbum]

I don't believe that Ryanair has tray tables.....
They certainly do, how else could they upsell you inflight food and drink.
They do have some non standard mods such as no recline on the seats and safety card printed on the back of the seat instead of a card.

[FUMR]

I don't believe that Ryanair has tray tables.....

You're possibly confusing with that they have no seat pockets.

[listria]

You're possibly confusing with that they have no seat pockets.
It was a tray table. Please let's get back to the very bad situation that Ryanair or the child's parents decided it was a good idea for him to sit on his own with an unknown man like me for a three hour flight.

[FUMR]

It was a tray table. Please let's get back to the very bad situation that Ryanair or the child's parents decided it was a good idea for him to sit on his own with an unknown man like me for a three hour flight.

Oh, I do beg your pardon but I was answering Charlie_Fox. Nevertheless, did you actually read and understand what I wrote? I was simply pointing out that they do have tray tables but they don't have pockets in the back of the seats.

[krismiler]

If you read the small print, follow all the rules and treat it as a bus service then you shouldn’t have a problem. Unfortunately legacy airlines are following their lead, previously there was a clear distinction between full service and low cost, the full service gave you meals and a baggage allowance whereas the low cost charged extra. Now these are add ons to an already higher fare. If it wasn’t for the down market airports that LCCs use, there would be little incentive to pay for a full service airline.

[Eutychus]

If you read the small print, follow all the rules and treat it as a bus service then you shouldn’t have a problem.

The French high-speed train market offers some interesting comparisons. The standard TGVs are run much like a standard airline, while the low-cost Ouigo service is run much like a LCC (right down to the garish colour schemes), you pay for luxuries such as baggage space and a power outlet at your seat, and in case of any difficulty on the line your train is much more likely to be delayed or cancelled than the standard TGVs.

Or (as I recently found out) resized. A few hours before my most recent trip I got a text telling me my double-decker train had been replaced by a single-decker train and as a result my seat no longer existed. I could travel but with no guarantee of anywhere to sit, and in a Ouigo there literally is nowhere else to sit apart from on the floor.

The lesson I've taken from all this, much as for LCCs, is not to take a Ouigo if I have a connection or really need to arrive more or less on time anywhere.

[Less Hair]

Ryanair deserves all the heat for splitting up families to cash in on reseating, but I found them to be above average reliable operationally.

[Sober Lark]

Are you suggesting Ryanair never cancel flights?

I've never been on a cancelled Ryanair flight. Late yes (and compensation promptly paid). I've been treated deplorably by EI, LH, EK and SQ when they cancelled flights. A recent late LH at DUB cancelled last minute and on Flight Radar 24 I watched the empty flight position to Edinburgh to pick up passengers from an early morning flight that had been cancelled. I've been on a EI flight to FRA cancelled due to snow at DUB. Again on flight radar I watched the same aircraft head off to LHR 35 mins later.

For persons who never pay for a seat on FR, I can see their point and I really think splitting families with young children is a safety issue. The thoughts of a 20 min wait at check in would make me pay for a seat.

Tesco have double prices on their supermarket shelves here. The cheaper price if you are a Clubcard member the dearer price if you are not. Airlines, Supermarkets etc etc they are all at it. With Ryanair you see an enticing fare for EUR15 then you need to add this, add that, add the other = the real price so shopping for the lowest fare gets more difficult for the average consumer who probably still believes they are getting it for EUR15!!! Still Ryanair flies to places I want to go to, safely, on time and I have a choice because of healthy competition.

[Request Orbit]

Tesco have double prices on their supermarket shelves here. The cheaper price if you are a Clubcard member the dearer price if you are not. Airlines, Supermarkets etc etc they are all at it. With Ryanair you see an enticing fare for EUR15 then you need to add this, add that, add the other = the real price so shopping for the lowest fare gets more difficult for the average consumer who probably still believes they are getting it for EUR15!!! Still Ryanair flies to places I want to go to, safely, on time and I have a choice because of healthy competition.

Do you need to pay for a Clubcard in Ireland? It’s the same in England but the “cost” of a Clubcard is letting them have your personal data by signing up. I believe there’s a separate paid scheme but that’s entirely optional when it comes to the offers. Doesn’t seem a like-for-like comparison.

[FarTooManyUsers]

I can see their point and I really think splitting families with young children is a safety issue.

There's two different risks

1) standard risk of seating children beside random adults for a few hours
2) incident risk - splitting family groups of any age slows down evacuation which may increase fatalities

[FUMR]

Sober Lark,
Just as you have never experienced a cancelled Ryanair flight, I have never experienced a cancelled LH or EI flight. I'm a frequent flyer with LH. I have not flown EK or SQ as I have other options from where I travel. I can assure you that RYR do cancel flights and I can assure you that they leave you with few options other than a refund (only for the sector cancelled mind) or a seat on the next available flight (which might be two days away). My understanding from friends is that Ryanair is "OK" but only if all goes according to plan! However, as I mentioned at the beginning, I opt not to fly on Ryanair and therefore I never have a need to complain about them.

[Sober Lark]

Do you need to pay for a Clubcard in Ireland? It’s the same in England but the “cost” of a Clubcard is letting them have your personal data by signing up. I believe there’s a separate paid scheme but that’s entirely optional when it comes to the offers. Doesn’t seem a like-for-like comparison.

Point valid and accepted FUMR

A good few years ago I had a Krisflyer card with 1.25 m miles but after being badly treated after a cancelled flight I thought I deserved more and never flew with them again. Do you think they missed me? Not on your life . So is this an example of the customer being always right and you should look after them or is it an example of an airline not getting bogged down and getting distracted in pursuit of customer satisfaction? Ryanair is no different and wants to keep their retail shareholders happy through growth. Ryanair will always make headlines, people love to moan, journalists love to write but at the end of the day none of this will put people off flying with them and their astonishing growth will continue.

[pilotmike]

I've never been on a cancelled Ryanair flight.
Neither has anybody else.

[pilotmike]

In the old days customers would buy several tickets for the same day especially on Fridays on BA and would claim a full refund on those not used. The mean no show was 12% on the code share route LHR -ZRH. Was a question of commuters being able to travel on an earlier or later flight depending on time of finishing work.
RIO would be far more of a problem when they had rampant inflation as the locals bought tickets in local currency when they got paid and cashed them in when they needed the money at the new exchange rate as the tickets were priced in USD.
I had one of the first flights which included airport printed tickets..the staff hadn’t heard of it at Nimes..mind you they are french (moi Aussie b4 I get any flack.
Dublin on the way out had introduced the hand baggage mafia for the first time since before covid.good.
Happy to fly with O’Leary’s lot but will never use the trump coloured airline again and avoid my old lot after a disastrous trip to the gulf.
It’s a terrible shame imho that the french stopped FR expansion there..destroyed tourism and 8? Years on Nimes in just getting back on its feet.
Sadly I have to pay a massive premium if I decide to travel the next couple of days ..as in 2000% on my last trip.
A perfect example of why never to post when drunk.

[Eutychus]

they leave you with few options other than a refund (only for the sector cancelled mind)
Well obviously because as they expressly point out (or used to) it is a "point to point" airline, so no connections are guaranteed. If I used a LCC to make a connection, I would always have it in the back of my mind that I might not make it and any money saved by using this option has to be offset against the potential expense of making my own alternative arrangements.

[Tartiflette Fan]

In the old days customers would buy several tickets for the same day especially on Fridays on BA and would claim a full refund on those not used. The mean no show was 12% on the code share route LHR -ZRH. Was a question of commuters being able to travel on an earlier or later flight depending on time of finishing work.
RIO would be far more of a problem when they had rampant inflation as the locals bought tickets in local currency when they got paid and cashed them in when they needed the money at the new exchange rate as the tickets were priced in USD.
I had one of the first flights which included airport printed tickets..the staff hadn’t heard of it at Nimes..mind you they are french (moi Aussie b4 I get any flack..

Incoming - that should be FLAK :} ( FLiegerAbwehrKanone )

[FUMR]

Well obviously because as they expressly point out (or used to) it is a "point to point" airline, so no connections are guaranteed. If I used a LCC to make a connection, I would always have it in the back of my mind that I might not make it and any money saved by using this option has to be offset against the potential expense of making my own alternative arrangements.

Yes, I understand that. Indeed all bookings are point-to-point. My meaning was (as happened to a friend of mine) if you book say AAA-BBB-AAA and they cancel the AAA-BBB flight, they only refund that sector. The fact that the next available option then prevents you from using the return booking as planned is of no concern to RYR.

[FUMR]

Neither has anybody else.

That was my first reaction too and then I remembered two occasions when I was already sitting in an aircraft when the flight was cancelled.

[listria]

There's two different risks

1) standard risk of seating children beside random adults for a few hours
2) incident risk - splitting family groups of any age slows down evacuation which may increase fatalities
Perfectly put. These are serious risks and need to be addressed. Ryanair are putting themselves at risk of legal action if a safeguarding incident occurs or a child is injured or gets in the way of people during evacuation

[Eutychus]

Yes, I understand that. Indeed all bookings are point-to-point. My meaning was (as happened to a friend of mine) if you book say AAA-BBB-AAA and they cancel the AAA-BBB flight, they only refund that sector. The fact that the next available option then prevents you from using the return booking as planned is of no concern to RYR.That's an eventuality I hadn't considered! But is it certain that would there be any better guarantee with a standard airline?

[FUMR]

That's an eventuality I hadn't considered! But is it certain that would there be any better guarantee with a standard airline?

No guarantees, but from personal experiences, a legacy operator will do all within its means to get you to your destination ASAP, even with another carrier if need be. And, of course, the major airlines can transfer stranded pax to one of their alliance partners. For instance, albeit a few years ago now, when my Eurowings flight DUS-BHX went tech, my family and I were re-routed DUS-FRA-BHX with Lufthansa. We still qualified and received full compensation for the delay, which was about 4 hours. Another time when flying KLM from DUS via AMS to ATL the DUS-AMS flight was cancelled due to an ATC failure in AMS. We were re-routed DUS-CDG-ATL with Air France and Delta. In all honesty I don't know what the policy is on the legacy carriers these days, but I expect that the good ones continue to do their very best to get you to your destination ASAP.

[Eutychus]

No guarantees, but from personal experiences, a legacy operator will do all within its means to get you to your destination ASAP, even with another carrier if need be. And, of course, the major airlines can transfer stranded pax to one of their alliance partners. For instance, albeit a few years ago now, when my Eurowings flight DUS-BHX went tech, my family and I were re-routed DUS-FRA-BHX with Lufthansa. We still qualified and received full compensation for the delay, which was about 4 hours. Another time when flying KLM from DUS via AMS to ATL the DUS-AMS flight was cancelled due to an ATC failure in AMS. We were re-routed DUS-CDG-ATL with Air France and Delta. In all honesty I don't know what the policy is on the legacy carriers these days, but I expect that the good ones continue to do their very best to get you to your destination ASAP.

But the wrinkle you pointed out was not that of reaching your destination, but of not getting back from it on the previously booked return flight (if your stay was only a short one and you couldn't make the return flight because of the delay in getting you there in the first place...) and thus forfeiting the price of the return trip.

[blind pew]

Had Ryanair from Charleroi to Dublin cancelled due to a snow storm in Dublin which affectively closed Dublin for two days. The Ryanair ground staff was fabulous..found a hotel and transport late at night as well as paying for it. Next afternoon we were back in the airport but due to lack of deicing in Dublin the outgoing flight was delayed several hours (one of the passengers had a friend on the out going aircraft who kept us up to speed on the delay). The aircraft arrived just before Charleroi closed for the night but ATC etc agreed to stay on and we left around 20 mins after official closing.. great service..Ps I’m not drunk nor was when I made my other post..just old and stupid..and having the p@ss taken is water of a ducks back and was part of my short career flying for three legacy carriers. Danke für die deutsche korretur

[Tartiflette Fan]

. Danke für die deutsche korretur

In diesem Fall meine ich, dass Verbesserung besser passen würde .:}. Nichts für ungut,

[FUMR]

But the wrinkle you pointed out was not that of reaching your destination, but of not getting back from it on the previously booked return flight (if your stay was only a short one and you couldn't make the return flight because of the delay in getting you there in the first place...) and thus forfeiting the price of the return trip.

Sometimes it's easier to chat about these things at the bar! In my friend's case RYR offered him a flight the following day which was too late for him to make the wedding he was going to. They refunded him the outbound leg. When he pointed out that he was now forced to cancel the entire trip with them their answer was that the "return" flight wasn't cancelled , so not refundable. My examples were just that, unlike that experience, I did arrive on the planned day, albeit a little later.

[pax britanica]

Ryanairs punctuality is largely because they fly to an airport that no one else uses and is 80Km from where you actually want to go to. But many of these airports suit quite a lot of people who are not near a major airport. So that alone gives them a good on time departure record and a decent market from people who dont want to travel to a big city airport.

Thats a good busines model-a la SW in the USa , dont take pax from United or American but Greyhound busses. I think much of the penny pinching they could scale back on and still make a decent profit, i suspect MoL is of the any publicity is good publicity school; they also seem to keep their pilot s pretty happy even if they work hard-always a good idea since no pilots no flight..
Personally iwouldnt chose to fly them given a choice but they ahve done a good job for their shareholders and millions of people who dont live in metropolises

[Sober Lark]

You want to be punctual just extend the journey time.

To be on time just have a journey time of 1 hour 20 mins instead of 55 mins. That way you’ll nearly always arrive early and exceed expectations of the passenger. If you’re late you give a bigger buffer to avoid compensation,

Still what a fantastic success this company is. Wish I had those ideas but I didn’t and that’s why he’s brilliant and I’m slogging through life making ends meet and availing of cheap flights so congratulations to him.

[FarTooManyUsers]

Ryanairs punctuality is largely because they fly to an airport that no one else uses and is 80Km from where you actually want to go to. But many of these airports suit quite a lot of people who are not near a major airport. So that alone gives them a good on time departure record and a decent market from people who dont want to travel to a big city airport.


That was true 10 years ago - but Ryanair have been flying to main airports (often as well as secondary airports) for a long time now.
When you've got 570 aircraft to schedule - you need to fly to both primary and secondary airports.

https://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Ryanair%20Holdings%20Group.htm

[MaierFly]

Scamming from Ryanair? :)

[Less Hair]

What I admire is their ground processes perfection. Like clockwork. Passengers lined up already behind the final door when the inbound flight arrives.

[slast]

What's often forgotten is one of the basic planks of the low cost model - the transfer of responsibility for and costs of disruption from airline to individual passengers. About 6 years ago I wrote this to the CEO of the Consumers Association when he complained about the effect on passengers of airline cancellations. Didn't get a reply of course..... Anyway, here's what I said then, with a few additional thoughts.

"Bad weather, ATC strikes, aircraft technical problems, etc., always have and always will disrupt air travel. Airlines are probably unique in having a "product" - moving seats from A to B - made on a "production line" where a huge range of aspects are, and will always be, completely outside their control. While the airline industry can predict and plan for disruption on a long timescale - e.g. "there will some fog at Heathrow and Milan in November" we can't do it at the detail level - which day in November? Which days are French ATC on strike this month? So exactly which flights disruption will affect can't be predicted.

Historically, airlines accepted that it was THEIR responsibility to deal with these issues. They had standby crews and aircraft, and airports were pressed to install bad weather landing systems. But having such people and equipment available "just in case" was regarded by many as inefficient and it cost money, which was reflected in higher fares for all passengers. And of course passengers (and consumer associations) complained about these high fares, especially after SouthWest started competing with legacy carriers in the US, with a network where a lot of factors that disrupt European shorthaul operations are absent. (E.g. for its first 12 years I believe SWA only operated within Texas and hence was not subject to Federal regulations, as well as not experiencing much freezing fog and having a unified ATC system!

Since only a tiny minority of flights are actually affected by disruption, if new airlines wanting to copy SWA simply abandoned any obligation to resolve it themselves they could offer the vast majority of most passengers lower fares, without ever explaining where much of the reduction has come from. But disruptions - and their associated cost - never went away. However, instead of being shared among all passengers, the entire cost (not just financial but emotional and organisational) is just dumped on the tiny minority of individuals directly affected - now including Mrs Vicary-Smith, the Consumer Association CEO's wife. And for some people these associated costs may be extremely high - e.g. the consequences of missed hospital appointments or life events. (And of course now they have transferred many other "cost-incurring" elements to the individual).

These lower "headline" fares result in organisations such as the Consumer Association now wanting legislation to make airlines compensate passengers, because they no longer do what was absolutely normal in the "bad old days" of fares they thought were too high. Beware of unintended consequences!"

As I said, no reply back then, and the situation has, for a growing minority, got a lot worse ....

[ChrisVJ]

To comment on the original question of pricing.

Maybe it is time for government to mandate that prices quoted include "necessities." eg. You have to have a seat so the price of a seat has to be included in the quoted price.

Even legacy airlines are now offering fares that have little to do with the final cost. We are flying United Airlines this month for a trip gifted from our son's points. The cost of "extras" like actually having a seat and a single hold bag each is mounting alarmingly
Obviously it is a little horses for courses. Another son and his partner flew all over Europe for weekends away when he was working in London and for short haul weekends it is quite possible to fly with only a carry on. However for Canada to Australia it is a bit stupid to expect people to travel without a hold bag! Now it seems it is just another way of advertising an unrealistic price and making it up with bags and expensive food.

[Doors to Automatic]

I wouldn’t fly Ryanair unless I absolutely had to. Other airlines’ (such as EZY) under seat volume allowance is usually 60% more. That is the clincher for me. I always book my seat so the airport check in issues are irrelevant.

[luoto]

[QUOTE=bobbytables;11551671]I thought that having a policy of children being seated together with accompanying adults was required to get your operator certificate. Another one is that an adult cannot be seated in an exit row if they are responsible for a child on the aircraft (no matter where the child is seated). Of course, having a policy and consistently implementing it are not the same thing.
/QUOTE]
I am presuming it is the Irish regulator that looks after Ryanair? Are they vigorous or a bit tame, as the tax authorities seem(ed) to be in Ireland for companies such as Apple, or the data protection watchdog (in the past at least) for Meta/Facebook.

Or could the mad bloke just go regulator shopping if he doesn't get his way, as he tries it on with regional airports to contribute to his billion dollar profit business or something?

[luoto]

I have flown, as captain (not in RYANAIR), with many FOs who had been trained by RYANAIR and found their skills and knowledge to be excellent. I believe that their training dept to be very good indeed, that makes them a safe airline to fly with. The rest is money and expectations.
I don't want to pick hairs, but does RYR actually train pilots? I may have misunderstood, but I thought prospective pilots paid an "arm's length" agency a King's Ransom for the privilege of possibly getting to fly for O'Leary at a [?] below market rate and be in debt for quite a long time. Even before the fun and games of rostering, base shuffling and the like.

I admit I might have been subject to anti-RYR propaganda within this hallowed place, but I got the impression RYR would charge for the steam of one's urine should it be possible.

[FarTooManyUsers]

I am presuming it is the Irish regulator that looks after Ryanair? Are they vigorous or a bit tame, as the tax authorities seem(ed) to be in Ireland for companies such as Apple, or the data protection watchdog (in the past at least) for Meta/Facebook.

Or could the mad bloke just go regulator shopping if he doesn't get his way, as he tries it on with regional airports to contribute to his billion dollar profit business or something?

I suspect the Irish regulator may be a bit tame ... but Ryanair also has AOCs in the UK, Austria, Poland and Malta ... and none of the regulators seem willing to enforce safe family seating rules.

https://corporate.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Governance-Baord-Structure_v2-01-1024x543.webp

[luoto]

[QUOTE=FarTooManyUsers;11553921]I suspect the Irish regulator may be a bit tame ... but Ryanair also has AOCs in the UK, Austria, Poland and Malta ... and none of the regulators seem willing to enforce safe family seating rules.

Ah, so in the EU there is not the principle of local regulators but some "master" regulator usually takes control for multinationals. If you understand what I mean, as regulation is not my forté.

[beardy]

I don't want to pick hairs, but does RYR actually train pilots? I may have misunderstood, but I thought prospective pilots paid an "arm's length" agency a King's Ransom for the privilege of possibly getting to fly for O'Leary at a [?] below market rate and be in debt for quite a long time. Even before the fun and games of rostering, base shuffling and the like.

I admit I might have been subject to anti-RYR propaganda within this hallowed place, but I got the impression RYR would charge for the steam of one's urine should it be possible.
The in-house training department conducts regular, periodic training and mandatory examination alongside rigorous monitoring of SOPs. They set and maintain the professional standards. Any sloppy approach from them leads to an unsafe culture and a dangerous attitude to safety. Training is not the same as teaching.

[Jamie2009]

[QUOTE=FarTooManyUsers;11553921]I suspect the Irish regulator may be a bit tame ... but Ryanair also has AOCs in the UK, Austria, Poland and Malta ... and none of the regulators seem willing to enforce safe family seating rules.

Ah, so in the EU there is not the principle of local regulators but some "master" regulator usually takes control for multinationals. If you understand what I mean, as regulation is not my forté.

If you go on the website and try to book a seat for an adult and an under 12 then you get sat together for free. Another adult wanting to sit with them would have to pay. There’s many many many things people can have ago at Ryanair for but Training and Safety aren’t two of them.

An example, Ryanair recently recruited a load of experienced pilots. The minimum requirements for a type rating is 32-36 ish hours in the sim. FR elected to put them on the cadet course and they did 12 fixed base sims and 7 FFS which is approximately 80 hours inc test. My point is FR could have given them the minimum but didn’t.

[FarTooManyUsers]

[QUOTE=luoto;11553925]

If you go on the website and try to book a seat for an adult and an under 12 then you get sat together for free. Another adult wanting to sit with them would have to pay. There’s many many many things people can have ago at Ryanair for but Training and Safety aren’t two of them.

An example, Ryanair recently recruited a load of experienced pilots. The minimumrequirements for a type rating is 32-36 ish hours in the sim. FR elected to put them on the cadet course and they did 12 fixed base sims and 7 FFS which is approximately 80 hours inc test. My point is FR could have given them the minimum but didn’t.

It's not just children under 12 that are the issue. If you are on a plane when an evacuation is ordered, you will likely try and find your partner / teenage children / relatives before evacuating - which is a problem.

To quote the Royal Aeronautical Society report: "Operators should not charge for family members to sit together. This is especially important in an emergency situation such as evacuation, decompression or air turbulence when adult assistance and supervision of children is likely to be of paramount importance."

https://www.aerosociety.com/media/14129/raes-emergency-evacuation-of-commercial-passenger-aeroplanes-paper-second-edition-june-2020.pdf

[Jamie2009]

I can see your point.

However, if it was such a safety risk wouldn't at least one of the aviation regulatory bodies have made the sitting together of family members mandatory, after analysing the the data and evidence from the numerous evacuation events over the years.

I do agree that the Cabin Crew should be asking questions of the kid and parents if they see a juvenile sat by themselves, especially at take off and landing - that is a safety issue.

[meleagertoo]

I am presuming it is the Irish regulator that looks after Ryanair? Are they vigorous or a bit tame, as the tax authorities seem(ed) to be in Ireland for companies such as Apple, or the data protection watchdog (in the past at least) for Meta/Facebook.
When I worked for a couple of Irish airlines some years ago they were the ultimate rubber-toothed poodle running a cosy little favours club for their ex-Air Corps mates who ran the airlines.

[luoto]

The in-house training department conducts regular, periodic training and mandatory examination alongside rigorous monitoring of SOPs. They set and maintain the professional standards. Any sloppy approach from them leads to an unsafe culture and a dangerous attitude to safety. Training is not the same as teaching.

As I made clear, I don't know. ChatGPT even is a little hesitant.

Ryanair operates its own training program for pilots through the Ryanair Pilot Training Programme. Traditionally, pilots are required to cover the cost of their training, known as self-sponsored or "pay-to-fly" programs. However, the specifics can change over time, so it's a good idea to check with the airline or their current pilot recruitment information for the most up-to-date details on their training program and any associated costs or agreements.

Your answer may be lost in translation. So does RYR pay "people who are not yet qualified to be pilots, to be pilots" yes/no Are those in the aforementioned group required to contribute any more for this privilege? yes/no.

I do not think I actually commented on legally required operational practices and recurrent training for those who are already qualified. Mostly on the grounds I don't know.