View Full Version : Mess Silver Store?
Bit of a random question but with the breadth of knowledge here I am hoping someone can help. There used to be a store of mess silver from closed RAF establishments that was available for loan to deserving units. Does anyone have any contact details please? (Assuming it still exists!)
VMT,
Mog
Random Bloke
3rd Dec 2023, 18:00
Try MOD Stafford. Lots of stuff was moved to there from Quedgeley where old Mess silver used to be stored. I got some Sqn memorabilia from Stafford a while ago.
dctyke
3rd Dec 2023, 21:11
A regular search of RAF silver on eBay can sometimes make one wonder how the hell did that get up for sale………🙄
Old-Duffer
4th Dec 2023, 05:18
No the silver - or what's left of it - is at Donnington near Telford.
I will say politely that it has probably not been cared for in the way one might have hoped when it was at the Central Depository.
Other comments I could make about the silver etc, would probably land me in the pooh but I wonder where and when the last audit was done and what arrangements are made to keep the silver and the property books aligned.
Old Duffer
Not in the depository, but I can remember seeing a model Halifax that had been "cleaned" with a wire brush
Krystal n chips
4th Dec 2023, 06:38
Try MOD Stafford. Lots of stuff was moved to there from Quedgeley where old Mess silver used to be stored. I got some Sqn memorabilia from Stafford a while ago.
That must have been more than a while ago because the RAF unceremoniously got rid of all and everything, quite a few Tornado spares ended up with a very dodgy, at the time, outfit at Hixon for example when it closed and much of the storage site became civilian industrial units.
BEagle
4th Dec 2023, 07:40
[...]I wonder where and when the last audit was done and what arrangements are made to keep the silver and the property books aligned.
I was the Officers' Mess Committee 'Silver Member' at one station at which I served. I inherited the task from someone who had been less than diligent and I had one heck of a time trying to resolve what was actually in store with what the property book said should have been there! Some items weren't recorded, while some of the silver wasn't there. I sent a memo to the PMC, who merely replied "Well, do the best you can!".
I'm pretty sure it was the same elsewhere. On arrival at one station, the first person I saw in the OM, apart from the receptionist, appeared from a dark cupboard with a silver model of an ancient biplane and barked at me "What's this?". Thinking anyone his age must be senior to me, I replied "Heyford, I think sir". He glared at me and disappeared back into the cupboard. I later found he was the station's most ancient Flt Lt and was very bitter about never having been promoted.....
dctyke
4th Dec 2023, 08:00
When I was posted to Halton with the imminent arrival of Airman’s Command Squadron they were just taking away a skip containing hundreds of books from the trenchard library. Whoever sanctioned that needed shooting. I just hope the first editions survived in some ownership.
jolihokistix
4th Dec 2023, 09:03
Interestingly I was trying to find the etymology of pilfer/pilfering earlier on, but the actual origins go so far back in time that no one is really certain.
langleybaston
4th Dec 2023, 16:10
When I was posted to Halton with the imminent arrival of Airman’s Command Squadron they were just taking away a skip containing hundreds of books from the trenchard library. Whoever sanctioned that needed shooting. I just hope the first editions survived in some ownership.<br /><br />There is hope. By Act of Parliament well back in Victorian days almost all UK publications not caveated have had to to have copies installed at what are colloquially known as the Copyright Libraries........ I personally benefited greatly from the Cambridge source, access to which is open to public view for research [after being introduced by two referees and after a form of vetting]. It is even permitted to make photocopies of most volumes. The library, as may be imagined, is vast. Car parking is not vast .........................<br /><br /><strong><span style="color:#202124;">he legal deposit libraries of the UK and Ireland are:</span></strong><br /><br /><ul><li>The British Library.</li><li>The Bodleian Libraries, University of Oxford.</li><li>Cambridge University Library.</li><li>National Library of Scotland, Edinburgh.</li><li>The Library of Trinity College, Dublin.</li><li>National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth.</li></ul><br />
I was the Officers' Mess Committee 'Silver Member' at one station at which I served. I inherited the task from someone who had been less than diligent and I had one heck of a time trying to resolve what was actually in store with what the property book said should have been there! Some items weren't recorded, while some of the silver wasn't there. I sent a memo to the PMC, who merely replied "Well, do the best you can!"...
A bit like Beagle,
After the Valiants were grounded at Wyton c Aug 64 I was lumbered with the task of listing the Mess's Silver.Superficially a simple task but it was a nightmare - the so called list was a shambles and there was a great deal not listed at all. I approached the Flt Cdr and explained the problem and he just said 'Do the best you can '. I really looked forward to my posting from Wyton in early November !
downsizer
4th Dec 2023, 18:02
<br /><br />There is hope. By Act of Parliament well back in Victorian days almost all UK publications not caveated have had to to have copies installed at what are colloquially known as the Copyright Libraries........ I personally benefited greatly from the Cambridge source, access to which is open to public view for research [after being introduced by two referees and after a form of vetting]. It is even permitted to make photocopies of most volumes. The library, as may be imagined, is vast. Car parking is not vast .........................<br /><br /><strong><span style="color:#202124;">he legal deposit libraries of the UK and Ireland are:</span></strong><br /><br /><ul><li>The British Library.</li><li>The Bodleian Libraries, University of Oxford.</li><li>Cambridge University Library.</li><li>National Library of Scotland, Edinburgh.</li><li>The Library of Trinity College, Dublin.</li><li>National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth.</li></ul><br />
WTF is up with your formatting?
langleybaston
4th Dec 2023, 18:29
WTF is up with your formatting?
Would that I knew.
I will now stop posting on PPRUNE, just lurk, as I seem to upset people more than I would wish.
At 86 I don't expect to improve my formatting, or indeed anything else.
Good while it lasted.
dagenham
4th Dec 2023, 18:32
Would that I knew.
I will now stop posting on PPRUNE, just lurk, as I seem to upset people more than I would wish.
At 86 I don't expect to improve my formatting, or indeed anything else.
Good while it lasted.
Langley, there are some c@cks about, dont take your bat and ball home, just rise above it and carry on
downsizer
4th Dec 2023, 18:51
Would that I knew..
Are you posting from a phone? Or a laptop?
I was puzzled myself, but I’ll take LB’s inputs any day! 😎
Would that I knew.
I will now stop posting on PPRUNE, just lurk, as I seem to upset people more than I would wish.
At 86 I don't expect to improve my formatting, or indeed anything else.
Good while it lasted.
Don't go Langley :{ Your post are always worth reading regardless of the formatting :ok:
chevvron
5th Dec 2023, 08:24
The Army always seem s to 'mollycoddle' its mess silver.
In about 1980, 664 Sqdn AAC at Farnborough was re-numbered as 656 Sqdn AAC. Chris Pickup, the CO told me that this was something of an embarassment for the mess silver because 656 had been a squadron based in Germany and the 'new' pile of silver was far greater than his storage facilities could hold.
NutLoose
5th Dec 2023, 09:45
Stay Langley, your posts are refreshing and interesting... You upset no one bud :)
86 Wow. you will need a fire Extinguisher to blow all those candles out on your birthday cake. :)
Downsizer wasn't being rude nor confrontational, as I read it he was just enquiring what had gone wrong.
ShyTorque
5th Dec 2023, 09:49
Maybe we’re suffering from artificial intelligence…
Some of my incoming emails of late look a bit like that!
Ninthace
5th Dec 2023, 15:43
Would that I knew.
I will now stop posting on PPRUNE, just lurk, as I seem to upset people more than I would wish.
At 86 I don't expect to improve my formatting, or indeed anything else.
Good while it lasted.
In the reply window, there is a button marked Source. Press that and it will show the control codes in your post ( they are inside [. ] and [/. ] ). You can then edit them out.
sharpend
5th Dec 2023, 15:54
When I helped reform 151(F) Sqn at Chivenor in the early '80s I asked for the Sqn silver to be returned. I was told it had all been sold. Tragic and those officers, incl COs, who had paid a small fortune to present the Sqn with that silver must be turning in their graves.
At Watton in the early 70s, the PMC and I did a detailed check of the Silver Store, as the insurance was getting prohibitive for a small Mess. Amongst the ‘treasures’ were a couple of 17th c pewter plates! After consultation with Quedgley etc etc we were authorised to hold a Mess auction to dispose of a load of it, and return major items to the Depot. One classic was a silver tankard presented to mark the 100th EA shot down by 100 Gp, engraved with the crew’s details.
The haul also included a collection of 8 or so 1/2 pint silver tankards, presented as sharpend noted above, which we retained for the use of ladies! I wish I could remember the Sqn concerned, but 151 Sqn rings a tragic bell.
ex82watcher
5th Dec 2023, 20:38
At Watton in the early 70s, the PMC and I did a detailed check of the Silver Store, as the insurance was getting prohibitive for a small Mess. Amongst the ‘treasures’ were a couple of 17th c pewter plates! After consultation with Quedgley etc etc we were authorised to hold a Mess auction to dispose of a load of it, and return major items to the Depot. One classic was a silver tankard presented to mark the 100th EA shot down by 100 Gp, engraved with the crew’s details.
The haul also included a collection of 8 or so 1/2 pint silver tankards, presented as sharpend noted above, which we retained for the use of ladies! I wish I could remember the Sqn concerned, but 151 Sqn rings a tragic bell.
Shortly after I arrived at Eastern Radar(civil) at RAF watton,in 1982,there was a sale of mess silver.I didn't buy anything,but one of my colleagues bought a silver pint-tankard,which from the inscription,had been presented by the BBC to commemorate a TV programme that had been made there.I also seem to remember a silver model of a Bloodhound missile on its launcher,which used to adorn the table at dining-in nights.Wonder what happened to that ?
I remember the silver Bloodhound ... a very nice piece of work! Left ERD in 79 after my 2nd tour there, so I can't help.
dctyke
6th Dec 2023, 14:49
Reading the replies I cannot help think that a very similar ending happened to the works of art that used to adorn mess walls. Heard stories of art simply disappearing off the walls without any meaningful investigation..
Prangster
6th Dec 2023, 15:33
Happy Ending to 504's Squadron Silver
Sharp eyed RAF policeman enters our ATC Wing HQ at RAF Newton. 'Excuse me sir', sayeth he to the wing Ad O A DFC beribboned ex Stirling/Lanc pilot of great veneration. 'Do you have a key to the trophy cabinet lurking in the corridor outside your office door?' 'S'not locked never has been', replies the good squadron leader.
Policeman turns pale. 'but its all solid silver, it must be worth a fortune. (it was)
How it came to be in an unlocked cabinet in a wooden hut in full view of every potential burglar on the prowl we never did fathom.
It didn't even belong to the ATC, We later found out it was only part of 504 City of Nottingham Squadron RAFVR's mess silver, some of it presented by the family of Captain Albert Ball VC.
It was rapidly removed to a place of safety.