£18 to use a wheelchair

[dv8]

A court case is being brought against Ryanair over charging £18 for the use of a wheelchair to a traveller suffering cerebral palsy and arthritis.
link (http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?j46381133)

[Glen Livid]

It must be hell to have to use a wheelchair, but I certainly would not want others picking up the tab for the extra cost of getting me about if I were in one.

Surely that is what the state allowances to the disabled are all about?

[Departures Beckham]

This is not intended to be an answer or justification, just a piece of information which you may find useful.

When I used to work at STN for a handling agent, the rules were that if a person was 'confined' to a wheelchair (WCHC) then there was no charge, if they only needed 'assistance' (WCHS/R) they were charged.

From what I understand, STAL (BAA) include this obligation in the contracts of the two companies offering assistance to passengers using wheelchairs.

[bealine]

From the airlines' point of view, the costs of wheelchair assistance are passed directly to them - in British Airways case at LHR and LGW by OCS (formerly AAS). In Continental Airlines case, by Servisair. Whether or not this is a fixed monthly fee of a "per pax" basis, I'm not sure, but definitely the costs are passed back to the airlines concerned. BA has its own mechanical handling equipment and drivers (High Lift Vehicles) so a severely disabled pax is handled by both OCS and our own MT drivers - of course the costs of the plant and equipment and our drivers salary enter the equation as well.

The good airlines absorb these costs themselves, although as Easyjet and Ryanair force the fares ever lower, there is no guarantee that this will continue to be the case.

Of course, sometimes that means we're open to abuse as perfectly able-bodied individuals demand a "buggy" because they have a bit too much hand-baggage! (A famous Country and Western singer did this last year at LGW and the story still does the rounds!) However, for every one bad apple, I have to say, there are at least a hundred good 'uns!

As I've said in my earlier posts, being aa airline means looking after ALL your customers - not just those with 2 arms and 2 legs and your "card holders". I don't have any disabilities and count myself very fortunate. In this life, one never knows what's round the corner and I just hope if I'm ever in the wheelchair category, I'm treated fairly. Equally, if I had an elderly or anxious relative travelling, I would like to think that the airline would take good care of him/her out of the goodness of their staff's heart and not for financial motives!

I just hope this gentleman wins his case otherwise - what next?

Will Ryanair be charging excess baggage for carrying the wheelchair in the hold, or an extra £10.00 for the aircraft seats with the lifting armrests?

:eek:

[Pandora]

Ryanair was happy to carry my dad and his mate's normal sized, normal shaped luggage until one of the group of 25 let slip that each suitcase contained a small dismantled bicycle (they were going on a cycle club hol), and then suddenly they were charged £15 each (cash only - no credit cards), and again on the return to have the pleasure of their 15kg, normal dimension suitcases handled in a very normal way.

Needless to say they were not impressed, especially since when they bought their tickets (at a not very cheap price, they used Ryanair because the airport was close to where their villa was) they mentioned the bikes and were told that it didn't matter what was in their suitcases just as long as they did not weigh more than X amount.

As someone who works for a proper airline that carries wheelchair pax, pushbikes, baby buggies, and whatever for free, but that (sometimes, OK usually) charges more than the low costs I seriously hope that companies like Ryanair implode under the weight of their customers' complaints. It annoys the crap out of me when pax say 'why are you more expensive than Ryanair/Easyjet?' and if you ask them why they chose to fly with BA they say 'Oh but I wanted to go to LHR and you have free food.' They answer their own question.

The low costs will continue to drive down the costs but they will also continue to fail to provide a full service. If you want a full service it has to be paid for somehow.

[Rapid_Climber]

Ten years ago when I first started working in avaition I worked for a small team at Stansted providing assistance to passengers for the then Air UK. We were a team of about five assiting nearly 150 passengers per day, from WCHC (wheelchair CARRY), WCHS (wheelchair STAGGERER), WCHR (wheelchair RUNNER), as well as the occassional UNMIN and YP when the Air UK staff could not cover them. Our services were paid for on a chair by chair basis by Air UK, which was passed at a small amount to every single Air UK paying passenger. We covered booked chairs, and last minute on board requests (often from people who really did not require them, see hand baggage commemt earlier). Air UK at the time were charged £5 for a runner or staggerer, and £10 for a carry. A carry was charged at a higher rate as it required two members of the team trained in lifting to make the sometimes difficult embark/disembark of the passenger.
When Ryanair first started at Stansted they used to pay for Servisair to provide the same service for their passengers. In about 1995 they decided that any last minute pax should pay for Servisairs assistance themselves. Shortly after they declared all passengers should pay for any assistance required. In a couple of cases I myself provided assistance to a paying Ryanair wheelchair pax, having to collect money from someone who actually needs a wheelchair and not just a hand baggage carrier, is one experience I am glad I don't have to do now. I have flown Ryanair for work in the past, but given the option I refuse to fly with CHEAPY carriers, because of such instances were the less fortunate are stamped on by the majority demand for cheap tickets. I am not disabled thankfully, nor do I travel with any disabled relatives, I have seen the other side of the operation. I feel if you are disabled enough to require to be carried off an aircraft the airline should pay for that service, as it's your right to be able to travel as much as anyone else. However if you got a little excited in duty free and can't carry your bags, you should have your pocket hit.

[Lou Scannon]

For once I have some sympathy with Ryan (and all airlines) over who pays the charge for wheelchairs. And this doesn't indicate any lack of sympathy for those who really need them. And yes...I have a close relative who needs such help.

You cannot expect airlines who charge so little for their seats to provide free services such as wheelchairs, diabetic meals, free oxygen, escorts for unmins etc. etc. It is up to society in general to help with these facilities not individual commercial firms to pick up the bill.

As long as airlines are up-front about what they include or don't include in the ticket price each of us has to make a choice. The railway companies don't offer free wheelchairs neither do the 'buses.

It would be interesting to hear the direct views of someone in a wheelchair and in the meantime I will await the court's decision with interest.

[BOEINGBOY1]

im in no way slamming the dissabled at all and i truly symathize to the hilt, those who have to use a wheelchair, but to put it quite simply, why should the able bodied be "discriminated against" and have to subsidise the cost to the airlines of carrying wheel chairs. my point being (before im shouted down here), is that isn't this charge for "handling" wheel chair pax, rather than actually carrying a chair in the hold, and therfore a charge levied by the airport authority. so if anybody is going to be taken to court, shouldn't it be the airport management.

[Land After]

This is a cost of doing business and should be included in the ticket costs. Where will the drive for savings stop? I now feel even better about refusing to fly with Ryan and supporting the appalling way they do business.

All we need now are a few more who will put principles and service over a (small) reduction in cost.

[Lou Scannon]

Once again, I do not like Ryanair. I avoid flying with them and I don't even want to buy their shares...BUT

You cannot include the cost of an £18 wheelchair assist in the price of a £15 ticket. Even if you pay something approaching the normal price for a ticket, £18 knocks a hell of a hole in the profit-but at least there is some leeway.

This cost, and who pays it, was bound to come to the courts sooner or later so lets see how they rule on it. Perhaps the rail firms and bus companies will all have to provide free lift ons and buggies, but I doubt it.

[MarkD]

I think the difference from buses is that in most termini there is no "airside" - whoever is meeting you can meet you from the aircraft to help you. I presume the £18 covers a member of airport staff to accompany the passenger?

[GVJFK]

You think thats bad!. A certain regional carrier that has recently changed their name for the second time in less than a year charge £25.00 per wheelchair if not advised that the psgr requires one. Thats both BE and FR off my list of carriers. Whilst I understand that companies have a need to make money, to discriminate against someone who genuinely needs help is mean spirited to say the least.

[Hap Hazard]

Ryan Air, a real people airline....Irish style..

[flyingdutchman]

Perhaps, if the so-called 'low cost carriers' were a little more upfront about what's included and what's not...

[Land After]

Having thought about this for a while, I guess it comes down to your own values: Are you personally prepared to accept an average cost of one wheelchair per flight for the genuinely disabled spread over 100 pax (18p each) or are you not?

You pays your money and chooses your airline.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, but one wheelchair per 100 pax seems a reasonable estimate)

[Longtimer]

Based on the following, I suspect the passenger paid the fee directly to the Airport Service Provider. It would indeed be unreasonable to expect Ryianair to pay the change for the passenger.
Wheelchair passengers:

Ryanair provides full assistance to wheelchair passengers free of charge. Up to four wheelchair passengers are permitted on any one flight. This also applies to group bookings. It is imperative that such passengers travelling in their own wheelchair advise of same, at the time of reservation as not to do so, due to the above limitation, may result in Ryanair being unable to accept the passenger for the flight reserved. In order to qualify for assistance, the passenger must be travelling in his or her own wheelchair. Passengers requesting assistance, who do not have their own wheelchair, will be directed to the wheelchair service provider at the relevant airport (see destinations link for airport information numbers). These companies will offer specialised assistance for a nominal fee which is payable directly by the passenger to the handling company.

http://www.ryanair.ie/

[Rollingthunder]

I won't get into the business economics of this thing or the Ryanair 12p tickets.

With my former airline I was running Expedite and got a call from Res. A family with a severely disabled daughter was travelling to Hawaii with us. The daughter was wheelchair bound and had to have a special body support structure as well. This support had to secured to the seat onboard as well as the child. Question was can we help this family travel. Expedite had no responsibility for this kind of thing but apparently no other department had either.

I contacted the family and asked them if they could come to the ops centre with their daughter so we could work something out. They did and with the help of our interiors mechs worked out a way to secure the child and body support safely in a seat. I came in on an off-shift.

Arranged the special handling procedures for the outbound and inbound flights, advised the in-flight group, went onboard the outbound flight to ensure everything was fine and monitored both flights to ensure all went well.

All went well. No extra charge. Sometimes it's just the real concept of Customer Service.

[Bern Oulli]

On the positive side. Last year my wife and I flew to Australia (via Bangkok) with that well known Aussie airline. My wife suffers from MS and would need wheelchair assistance for the long distances from check-in to gate. Our travel agent was advised accordingly. On arrival at LHR a wheelchair was waiting, with a BA "pusher". We were whisked through check-in and assisted all the way to the a/c. At Bangkok, where a 2 hour stop was scheduled, again a wheelchair was waiting for us at the a/c. Ditto at Sydney.

In Oz we hired one of those electric buggies and via surface transport ended up in Melbourne before flying back to Sydney. Quantas, bless their little kangaroo, carried the buggy free of charge, and they ain't light! The same service with the wheelchairs materialised on the return journey to LHR. Top marks to Qantas and BA for the service.

Obviously you get the service you pay for and I would not expect similar treatment from a budget airline but I would at least expect a wheelchair - good grief even shopping malls and large DIY stores provide them nowadays.

[Joe Curry]

>>good grief even shopping malls and large DIY stores provide them nowadays.<<

One must also consider the safety angle, is it safe to have someone with walking difficulties mingling with able-bodied
pax.?

[radio ears]

You may like to take a look through this bbc site (http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch) to get an idea of the view from the chair. The Disablity Discrimination act is geting wider and wider in it's scope, inculding public transport.

[Departures Beckham]

Those of you not happy with the small print in Ryanair's terms and condition will be pleased to view Ryanair's Passenger Charter (http://www.ryanair.com/charter/policy.html) which now lists the prices and service providers.

[timzsta]

I guess the Judge who presides over the case will have to decide a number of things:

1) Having purchased the tickets, and therefore agreed to the airlines terms and conditions, does he then have any recourse to sue.

2) Is it discriminatory for the airline/handling agent/wheelchair company, to charge for the service provided - at the end of the day someone has to pay for it.

If Ryanair lose would they be in their rights to say they will no longer carry passengers who require such assistance.

[radio ears]

Ryan air would find it difficult to refuse.

Uk based personel MUST read this link Consultation Draft Access to Air Travel for Disabled People (http://www.mobility-unit.dft.gov.uk/consult/aviation/access/index.htm)

[christep]

Having skimmed the linked documents, it seems to me that Ryanair's stated policy does indeed conform with the law and the proposals of the "Consultation Draft...". The Draft talks clearly about the disabled users with their own wheelchairs, and Ryanair's published policy appears to align with the recommendations.

The difficulty arises only in regard to users who do not bring their own wheelchair but request the use of one on their transit through the airport.

It is by no means clear to me that the responsibility here lies with the airline - the authorities at 50 out of the 56 airports which Ryanair serve provide such wheelchairs free of charge. Ryanair claims to be lobbying the other 6 (presumably including Stansted) to provide this service "free".

Of ocurse, the service is not "free" - a larger population simply has to cover the cost which is hidden somewhere else. Assuming that as a society we wish to accept the cost of supporting disabled people then the only question is how and across what population do you raise the "social tax". Possibilities include National Insurance or Income tax (across all "taxpayers"), airport service charges (across all "airport users"), airline fares (across everyone using the airline), or (a ridiculous extreme) a surcharge on the passengers on a specific flight.

Since at an airport the logical way for wheelchairs to be provided is by the airport authority it would seem to me that the best place to collect this social tax would be in the airport service charge, which is essentially what the 50 (out of 56) airports are doing.