The effect of cumulative helicopter flight time on the human body

[seafuryfan]

Hello. I've been flying in helicopters for about 35 years, with about 9500 hrs. I developed hand tremors about five years ago (still flying, still passing medicals), and and wonder if the two may be linked. From online reading I'd class them as essential tremors. Does anyone here know of any research that's been done about the effect of flight hours on the human body? Thanks.

[Myra Leese]

I managed just over 8000 hrs in 35 years and have mild carpal tunnel in both wrists and moderate nerve compression in my elbows. Just before leaving the RAF the physios attributed both symptoms to my long career in rotary. I believe a study was carried out on US Army pilots and found these conditions common on high hour pilots.When the nerve compression flares up I get a stabbing pain between my shoulder blades but you just get used to it after a while.

[Sir Korsky]

I guess you guys weren't letting George drive.

[ShyTorque]

I guess you guys weren't letting George drive.

He was on the other shift.

[Myra Leese]

George not much use at night up against a lump of granite in a snow storm, Crab will be along in a moment to back me up!

[Ascend Charlie]

After 15,000 hrs, mostly in hand-flown, unstabilised choppers, I have some problems. Helicopter seats, particularly the B206, have zero adjustment, so there is almost no way to get into a really good position for a flight. In the Hueys as well, there is a large coaming over the instrument panel (keeps sunlight off the instruments, stops them reflecting in the windscreen at night) which requires the head to be held high. But the collective is set low down, so we slump into the seat and lean to the left to hold it. Slumped down, leaning over, head held up with a helmet on top (not a lot of noise attenuation in those days either), bounced up and down at 1:1 frequency for thousands of hours, and most Huey pilots have lower back and neck problems.

I have 3 lumbar vertebrae fused together by themselves, and the same in my neck. Uncomfortable to bend over or turn my head more than 45 degrees. Arthritis in my hands and knees add to the joys of still walking the planet. The Dept of Veterans Affairs acknowledges the back, neck and hearing problems, and pays me barely enough to buy a carton of Boag's anaesthetic each fortnight, which takes some of the discomfort away.

[helichris]

After 15,000 hrs, mostly in hand-flown, unstabilised choppers, I have some problems. Helicopter seats, particularly the B206, have zero adjustment, so there is almost no way to get into a really good position for a flight. In the Hueys as well, there is a large coaming over the instrument panel (keeps sunlight off the instruments, stops them reflecting in the windscreen at night) which requires the head to be held high. But the collective is set low down, so we slump into the seat and lean to the left to hold it. Slumped down, leaning over, head held up with a helmet on top (not a lot of noise attenuation in those days either), bounced up and down at 1:1 frequency for thousands of hours, and most Huey pilots have lower back and neck problems.

I have 3 lumbar vertebrae fused together by themselves, and the same in my neck. Uncomfortable to bend over or turn my head more than 45 degrees. Arthritis in my hands and knees add to the joys of still walking the planet. The Dept of Veterans Affairs acknowledges the back, neck and hearing problems, and pays me barely enough to buy a carton of Boag's anaesthetic each fortnight, which takes some of the discomfort away.
I don't think a helicopter can weld your bones together and if you did that much bouncing around, you needed better mechanics!

[SASless]

OP raises a good question.

I did a google search using "Medical problems experienced by Helicopter Pilots" and numerous links were surfaced.

None seemed titled to show a relevance to his question but there was some interesting studies done on several different military service pilots.

As the US Veterans Administration and/or the military service offers compensation or pensions for disabilities incurred while in the service it might be a good idea for Veterans to look through some of those studies.

You might have a valid claim even well after leaving the military service.

[paco]

I did see a study once years ago comparing helicopter pilots to jackhammer operators (that would explain the sore back). I can easily see how bones could weld themselves together if you have enough compression to squeeze out the lining between them.

[nikoel]

After 15,000 hrs, mostly in hand-flown, unstabilised choppers, I have some problems. Helicopter seats, particularly the B206, have zero adjustment, so there is almost no way to get into a really good position for a flight. In the Hueys as well, there is a large coaming over the instrument panel (keeps sunlight off the instruments, stops them reflecting in the windscreen at night) which requires the head to be held high. But the collective is set low down, so we slump into the seat and lean to the left to hold it. Slumped down, leaning over, head held up with a helmet on top (not a lot of noise attenuation in those days either), bounced up and down at 1:1 frequency for thousands of hours, and most Huey pilots have lower back and neck problems.

I have 3 lumbar vertebrae fused together by themselves, and the same in my neck. Uncomfortable to bend over or turn my head more than 45 degrees. Arthritis in my hands and knees add to the joys of still walking the planet. The Dept of Veterans Affairs acknowledges the back, neck and hearing problems, and pays me barely enough to buy a carton of Boag's anaesthetic each fortnight, which takes some of the discomfort away.

I am sorry to hear this. I can only say that I concur. When manufacturers designed those helicopters, they didn't consider seating positions, comfort, basic understanding of ergonomics or bloodflow let alone act upon these considerations. I imagine the conversation by the designers went as far as 'What do you mean this "L" seat with minimal padding, sharp 90-degree corners, and no lumbar support is uncomfortable? Blasphemy, here are the most convenient positions for these controls, use this Pry-Bar to contort the pesky pilots, if they complain use the secondary feature of the said Pry-Bar"

Bell (and many others) should be tried in The Hague for the tortures they have inflicted on pilots worldwide. When found guilty, the punishment should be life strapped inside a Bell 206, suspended on four washing machines stuffed with blankets, on continuous spin-to-rinse cycles

This won't help you Charlie, but to anyone else reading who wants to get ahead of this issues before they catch up to you. When you're at the gym, at the end of the session do 3-4 sets of face-pull exercises. It both stretches the front and tightens the rear shoulders/back and is one of the most effective exercises in correcting the helicopter pilot hunchback

[Cornish Jack]

For a short time, in the 60s, CFS Whirlwinds had some 'bead cushions' (a short-lived car seat fad) issued for trial. From memory, even less comfortable than the normal.

[Luther Sebastian]

I remember seeing reported in Pilot magazine that helicopter pilots tend to the fathers of more girls than boys, accounted for by the effect of vibration on the, er, sweetbreads.

[peter manktelow]

16,000 hours and 50 years later.........had right hip replacement surgery after retiring. It was a great success. Prior to surgery it was rubbing bone on bone. Bloody painful. I cant really say that it was brought on by sitting in the cockpit of numerous types. Interestingly , the most comfortable seat I ever strapped in to was the original Squirrel (AS350B) seat. It being a simple (high backed) fibre glass bucket seat with foam cushions. In my last years of flying (As332L , L1 and EC225) it was painful to watch me getting out of the cockpit after a 3 and a half hour offshore round trip.It would take me a good half hour to get back to normal walking posture as opposed to staggering around like an old man...which I am now at 73. Surprisingly , Shell Anduki had Puma seats fitted to their 61's as a comfort improvement but the flights were only short hops and I cant remember getting much benefit. I was much younger then as well. We certainly did not have the comfort or ergonomics of a Boeing 747 seat which a good bar story alluded to it being able to do everything but have sex with you. A number of my helicopter (pilot) buddies have come down in later years with back problems of various sorts and extremes. Prior to hip surgery , xrays showed small back bone chips that the Dr thought may have occurred after somehow hitting my bum hard. Was that as a result of a rather heavy landing in PNG in 1975 ? (the engine had quit and the auto was not nice) Who knows. Regardless , it would be interesting to see a survey of retired helicopter pilots focusing on their various muscular-skeletal problems. Under no circumstances would we want to see such a survey to include our past drinking habits !!!!

Peter

[Sea Plane Driver]

We certainly did not have the comfort or ergonomics of a Boeing 747 seat which a good bar story alluded to it being able to do everything but have sex with you.

Yes, they are good, if new, but 30 year old seats can be a bit worn down and out. (Try writing up a bad seat: Can not duplicate, OK for service)

[SASless]

Peter,

Bell Helicopters would not want me on the Jury deciding that case!

I would leave them wearing the proverbial wooden barrel for clothing.

Early in my flying I wound up herding Chinooks around per very long flying days that averaged 8-10 flying hours daily and anyone that has been inside the cockpit of one KNOWS NOISE generated by the Forward Transmission that is just above your head. Can you say "deaf"?

Being around two former Chinook pilots having a conversation is an interesting experience as there are about three or four conversations going between them as neither can hear with any clarity. We say "Huh" a lot!

The Chinook seat was pretty good...it had vertical and fore/aft adjustment plus tilt, the pedals were adjustable, and the cyclic could be adjusted but rarely was for some technical reasons. Vibration could be an issue and a well worn forward Swash Plate could generate a rather pronounced vertical bounce. If the Thrust Lever (Collective) mag brake failed or got weak....that also presented serious vertical bounce. So we lost our High Freq hearing very quickly due to the frequency of the transmission whine, our necks, backs, and hips took a lot of wear and tear. Various helicopters seats were better than others but not one outside the Chinook seat ever came close to being properly fit for purpose.

Long Line Pilots really have back and neck problems if they do that kind of flying for any long period of time due to the posture you have to use to see what your line is doing.

As Peter noted.....12,500 hours and two hip replacements later, back problems, my right shoulder needs surgery but I am John Wayne'ing it and refusing the surgery so far, arthritis in my back, neck and shoulders.

Then for good measure there are the Agent Orange related gifts that keep on giving.....but I am still kicking....not very high but kicking yet.

The burns and bullet wound were part of the deal too but only as flying put me in the wrong place at the right time.

For the record, Demon Rum has never crossed my lips.....am still looking for that brand but no luck yet.

For a yarn.....years ago while stood with my Chief Pilot at one of the places I worked....we observed one of our older pilots whose last name was "Knotts" walking out to his helicopter for the days work.....he had undergone several back and neck surgeries and walked all bent over forwards to the extent he had to raise his head to see ahead.....which gained him the nickname of "90" as his posture was similar to the pitch attitude of a Huey at that speed. The CP quipped....."If he does. not straighten up I am going to run him off!".

[[email protected]]

The worst seat was the Gazelle which didn't support the back of your legs very well leading to problems for some people with sciatica and lower back pain. I only ever flew short sorties in it due to being in a training environment but you certainly knew about it after a long navex.

Myra is correct re 'george' not being much use when precision hovering is required, especially with one of your mates on a 200 plus length of winch wire.

Many more recent ex-mil pilots have neck problems due to the widespread use of NVG/NVD.

The fact is that getting old is sh*t but its better than the alternative. You don't know what issues you would have had if you hadn't spent your life in a helicopter - my BIL had lots of back and sciatica problems and he was a desk jockey for all his career.

[Myra Leese]

For any Brit Mil rotary pilots who might soon retire and find these stories familiar, have a look at the War Pensions scheme before you leave. I was able to make a claim as MOD accepted responsibility fo my condition and although I was not damaged enough for an annual pension, I received around £6k as a lump sum. You just have to fill in the paperwork and have a medical history to back up your claim.

[Hughes500]

Well just done 8 hours line work in a 500, only saving grace is a heated seat, makes the pain in backside go away. Long term damage after 10000 hours ? Mrs 500 says I m not the man she married 33 years ago, work that one out.

[ShyTorque]

I once visited a chiropractor who asked me to stand in front of him so he could assess what he needed to straighten first. At that stage he’d asked no questions about what I did for a living. Before he even laid hands on me he guessed that I was a helicopter pilot from my posture (main problems being crooked neck, spinal twist and drooping left shoulder).

I never found an RAF Helicopter with anything like a comfortable seat, in all my time flying them. In my early days on the Puma, most of the seat cushions had gone completely flat so there was no padding under your behind and I flew sitting on a pack of maps much of the time until the seat bases were modified to take a backside shaped dinghy/survival container, which also raised the sitting height. Unfortunately they didn’t raise the rear seat belt attachment point, so the tighter you had the shoulder harness, the more you were forced into a crouched down position because the straps went upwards to go over your shoulders. A further mod was done to raise the attachment point when it was realised that there was no forward restraint in a crash until the strap went straight but by then you would be bent in half. The armoured seat was far better for comfort but I reckon in a crash the armoured breast plate would break my jaw, if nothing worse.

Sikorsky did a much better job with the S-76 and S-70 (but the Whirlwind and Wessex were designed for someone of very different shape and dimensions to me). Agusta did quite a good job with the A109. AeroSpatiale not too bad with the AS355.

[megan]

I must be an outlier, 80YO, 20,000 in the book, short arse in stature, only problem is with both knees which I manage with exercises prescribed by my physio, one knee could probably do with replacement. Never found a problem with helo seats, usually the setting was pedals right back (short legs) and seat full up (to see over the coaming). Never did anything that required cockpit gymnastics such as long lining.

Spouse on the other hand is five years younger but crippled with spasms and pain in her legs, arthritis in neck and hands, two spinal operations, regular spinal injections due trapped nerves, has always been a home body with gardening, painting and sewing (daughter in ballet) as her interests, always told her her ailments come from a very active sporting career in her youth, but really its just genetics I think.

[Lonewolf_50]

The four bits that a lot of my colleagues dealt with over the years, as summarized by a USN safety/medical message in either the late 90's or early 00's:
Neck/cervical issues (helmet related and vibration related)
Lumbar (the big one) and mid back issues (My old boss had three surgeries)
Hemorrhoids
Hearing loss

[Jabberwocky82]

I've always been curious if the exposure to vertical bounce had any long-term effects on our eyes and vision.

[helichris]

main problems being crooked neck, spinal twist and drooping left shoulder

Must have been the result of too much time sitting on "a pack of maps". 😂😂

[60FltMech]

A friend and coworker of mine (pilot) wrote his masters thesis on this subject, I’ll see if he can supply a link to his paper.

As part of his research he measured the vibration levels at the pilot seat on every test flight his crew flew using a Chadwick 8500 and the assistance of his crew chief(who also happened to train me on vibration analysis/rotor tuning when I first entered our Test Flight section).

He compiled quite a number of the Chadwick printouts before all was said and done to document his work. As much as I like IVHUMS I sometimes miss the 8500, it just worked, unlike the crapshoot you had with AVA.

[ShyTorque]

Must have been the result of too much time sitting on "a pack of maps". 😂😂

Quite possibly, but I was flying the Gazelle when the back pain got really severe. :(

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Re the Gazelle, Shy, I wonder if the way the pedals were offset toward the centre of the aircraft rather than directly in front of the seat may have put some extra 'twist' on the spine? I never noticed the offset until on Loan to the AAC, and while in the hangar trying to work out why one student in particular couldn't get the hang of running landings a REME pointed it out to me.

[212man]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6230074/

I read the actual report years ago but can’t find it now. But I recall the conclusion clearly - posture not vibrations.

Personally, I have just over 11,000 hours rotary and all my back problems relate to foolishness as a teenager and inattention to posture while sitting, in later life. Pretty sure my flying isn’t a factor.

My favourite seat was the 212 - nylon netting stretched over a well formed metal frame!

[ShyTorque]

Re the Gazelle, Shy, I wonder if the way the pedals were offset toward the centre of the aircraft rather than directly in front of the seat may have put some extra 'twist' on the spine? I never noticed the offset until on Loan to the AAC, and while in the hangar trying to work out why one student in particular couldn't get the hang of running landings a REME pointed it out to me.

Quite possibly….I have to say that I can’t remember; it’s now 37 years since I last flew one!

[hargreaves99]

we can all test our hearing here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYRxqKhNUUA&t=2s

[SASless]

Is there audio with that ?

[Salusa]

Did someone say Artouste or Astazou?

Bacon with eggs please.

[ShyTorque]

Is there audio with that ?

I don’t know, I couldn’t see anything.

By the way, why do they put adverts for hearing aids on the radio?

[nomorehelosforme]

Saw this earlier!!!

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1728708584811220992/pu/vid/avc1/320x568/jHCAePwsL_gEcj6P.mp4?tag=12

[Attila]

Just run the Hearing Test on YouTube and I lost the sound around indicated age of 71 on the gauge - not bad as I'm 78, 16350 hours over aproximately 37 years of flying, including over 8000 hours on Bell machines, 205, 214B, 206 & 212, plus 6500 on the S61N (North Sea & Falklands) then a handful of hours, 650-ish, on the 332L1, not to mention the Sioux and Gazelle.

My high tone hearing is suffering a little though, but I am informed that that is due to normal age related loss.

its a bitch getting old, but I'm still here to complain about it !!😉😉👍👍

[onehunglow]

43 years on board, in the cockpit. 5 years before that 'alongside' (avionics) 13,000 hrs approx. All ok apart from high tone that started going towards the end of Wessex SAR flying, (window slid back always, throat mike required due engine exhaust noise.) No aches and pains yet. No meds. I think the 50lb body trim in 2008 helped.

[212man]

we can all test our hearing here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYRxqKhNUUA&t=2s
Mmm, if that's a true reflection, it's a bit disconcerting. Or, I can blame ambient background noise!

[ShyTorque]

It might be affected by the limitations of the speaker of the equipment you’re trying to listen with. If the speaker can’t transmit the frequency, you’re certainly not going to hear it.

Edit: After a disappointing initial test result, I wanted to check this for myself. I have just tried different ways of hearing this test….firstly on my iPad; the built in speaker, a pair of plug in earphones, then a pair of Bluetooth earphones (the latter are official Apple items).

I also tried the plug in earphones into my desktop PC, followed by the plug in stereo speaker (a Sony unit).

They all produced quite different results!

I was more pleased to discover that my best result (the PC and the Sony speaker) shows that my high tone perception is as good as someone 25 years younger than myself, which ties in with my last aircrew medical.

[John Eacott]

That hearing test gives me the same result with or without my hearing aids, so it may have less than stellar authenticity.

Since I have Profound Hearing loss it does have quite an impact on life generally, maybe why I tend to do 45,000kms a year on my motorbike and not have to worry about listening to people!

[tcamiga]

Interesting post. My two bobs worth as am now still flying as a CPLH about 200 hrs a year at 75 as passing medicals and enjoying it as much as when the adventure started in 1968.

No apparent internal physical issues so far at nearly 24K hrs but skin cancers have been problematic probably due to early exposure as a kid compounded with 55 yrs in the bubble.

Regular skin checks have found a couple of melanomas I didn't know were there and which were removed in time to then not be a problem.

Hearing probably held as I would wear ear plugs all the time when possible as the old SPH4 was a noisy helmet in the early days.

Didn't like visors as they were a layer which reduced sharpness and light slightly when working low looking for things - riveted a peak on the helmet to keep eyes in the shade. No glasses for reading or distance as yet!

Back related stuff - I'm 5ft 6 and have kept exactly the same weight since 20 yrs old - except some of it is now in different places. Have always made the effort to do some sort of physical excercise no matter where in the world I've been - even as simple as walking around the LZ a few times. Have never done weights etc except tipping fuel barrels onto their end etc and if there is a chance to pump fuel in I take it. Probably because of these things i've been able to keep mobility and even now can still run no probs using a descent set of running shoes.

Lucky enough not to get AIDS - avaition induced divorce syndrome - after an amazing 51 years with a very understanding lady and family.

I think I've been lucky :)

Question - before I forget :) - a couple of us following this post realise we know of zero high time heli pilots who have or had dementia. As our mob isn'tt the most intelligent beings, we are thinking its probably because the continous high level brain activity associated with our profession when flying may have helped. Would be interested in anyother views on this.

Fly Safe and enjoy life :)

[ShyTorque]

tcamiga,

Well done on remaining so healthy. I think you may be correct regarding good brain activity. Although I’m now retired from flying, my main hobbies are to do with vehicles in one way or another (these days obviously ground based) and most of my friends and acquaintances are similar people. I’ve often wondered if maintaining motor skills (in all senses of the term) and good hand/eye coordination keep brain degradation at bay for longer. Because like you, I’ve noticed that bike riders keep relatively “sharp” for a very long time. I’ve also wondered if video games such as the traditional “Space Invaders” have a similar benefit because they presumably make the brain process multiple items at once.

[onehunglow]

I am at present putting through a claim against MOD for high tone loss and tinnitus, based on Wessex SAR 'open window noise'. Slow process. I'll let you know here how it goes. Not expecting decision until mid 2024.

There's cash in the pot to be claimed, for hearing loss. One needs to have served post 1987.

[ShyTorque]

I am at present putting through a claim against MOD for high tone loss and tinnitus, based on Wessex SAR 'open window noise'. Slow process. I'll let you know here how it goes. Not expecting decision until mid 2024.

There's cash in the pot to be claimed, for hearing loss. One needs to have served post 1987.

Say again? ;)

[SASless]

Tcamiga raises a good question about a terrible affliction.....Dementia.

I was the care giver for my Mom in her last years and she suffered from extreme dementia in the last two years of her life.

Probably the saddest day of my life was when in a moment of clarity she told me she was losing her cognitive abilities and knew there was nothing she could do about....and that was fairly early on in the process.

She lived to be 97 years old which can attest to her physical condition but the serious Dementia was evident for about ten years.....those years that were beyond the typical "Old Timers Disease" of short term memory loas.

We all have those moments when we walk into a room and wonder why we did.....to then remember and attend to our business..

I am 75 and have had my Primary Care Provider do a Cognitive Ability Test on me each year now for the past few years just has a precaution thinking of my Mom's problems.

It it were an IQ, Sanity, Hearing Test I would no doubt fail....but so far I am still able to find my way back home.

If you even remotely suspect you are having problems do not hesitate to talk to your family and friends and ask them if they notice any change in you.

Also, don't fail to ask for your Doctor to do a Cognitive Ability Test on you.

Dementia, Alzheimers, or other mental afflictions are terrible things to see in anyone and the sooner one knows of the problem the better off you are.

The progression usually is fairly slow and there are treatments that help.

[ShyTorque]

We have an elderly neighbour who is sadly in the grip of progressive dementia. We’ve looked out for her and her male partner for some years. She’s over 80 years old; her partner ten years older. She was always very busy and worked and drove until her mid seventies. The first thing we knew about her problem was when she came over to see us and told us that she’d been diagnosed as such. She wanted to tell us while she could. Thankfully they have multiple family carers so we don’t need to be involved so much these days; we have family care problems of our own. Occasionally she turns up here. We sit her down, give her a cup of tea and let her make a fuss of the dogs, who are always happy to see her. Meanwhile, one of us goes over to inform her partner that she’s with us. She often reverts to memories of an abusive relationship she had and confuses her present partner with the previous one. We try to help her calm down and then walk her back home. It’s a very cruel, long term disease which affects others as much as the individual.

[JimEli]

Becareful of fraudulent and worthless approved Alzheimers drugs. Here (https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/a-new-alzheimers-drug-has-been-approved-but-should-you-take-it-202106082483). Here (https://www.alzinfo.org/articles/treatment/5-things-to-know-about-the-new-alzheimers-drug-leqembi/). And here. (https://www.npr.org/2021/06/07/1003964235/fda-approves-controversial-alzheimers-drug-aducanumab) All because of this. (https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease)