Sydney Curfew Dispensations Challenged

[neville_nobody]

I have often wondered how companies have managed to operate narrow body aircraft during curfew whilst in the past governments threw a tantrum over anyone who even tried to push the rationality of it. (Foreign airlines have threatened Federal Court action over some ridiculous scenarios they found themselves in) Previous ministers have even thrown their weight around about RPT turboprop aircraft not being allowed to land even though the act says they can. Now Scott Morrison has asked the government to either enforce the curfew or get rid of it. It also puts the PM in a interesting position politically as he made some noise (and political capital for his electorate) about the curfew when he was transport minister. It may also prompt more questions about the Chairman's lounge and how this even came about.

Anyway it's a nice little political hand grenade Morrison has rolled under the door of the minister's office........


AFR 15/11/23
Kylar Loussikian

Infrastructure Department officials are considering cancelling special allowances given to major cargo operators to fly outside the Sydney Airport curfew after Scott Morrison wrote to Labor demanding it be scrapped.

In one of the few domestic policy interventions by the former prime minister since the Coalition lost the last federal election, Mr Morrison said special dispensation for Qantas, Team Global Express and another carrier to fly freight out of Sydney Airport was likely to be against the law. The special rights were first granted to the operators – Australia Post has partnered with Qantas for airfreight – by the Coalition during the COVID-19 pandemic as the number of passenger flights fell. Airfreight is most often transported on passenger flights, and the lack of travel meant new arrangements were required to fly cargo earlier in the day.

Despite the end of the pandemic, the government agreed to extend the special dispensation until Western Sydney Airport opens in 2026. It is expected that the new airport will not have a curfew (https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5ea1q).

In his letter to Infrastructure Minister Catherine King, Mr Morrison wrote that the residents of Kurnell, in his electorate of Cook in Sydney’s south, were “unfairly denied the protections” of the Sydney Airport curfew.

The curfew prevents flights after 11pm and before 6pm. There have been between 10 and 18 flights every night under the exemption.

“No doubt a business case could be mounted for the abolition of the curfew in its entirety, but that would not be consistent with the interests of residents who live adjacent to the airport,” his letter reads, adding that legal advice sought from Mark Robinson SC concluded that “the dispensations contravene relevant provisions of all three legislative instruments and subverts the rightful and lawful role of parliament”.

In response, the Infrastructure Department has launched a review of the special allowance and have flagged to the three carriers that there is a “realistic” chance it will be scrapped, two sources involved in discussions who were not permitted to speak publicly said.

Ms King declined to comment, citing the review. Department officials had allowed the pre-curfew flights to continue because demand for freight had increased dramatically during the pandemic (https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5de55), and because larger aircraft which had operated domestically were now being used on international routes, reducing the capacity to transport freight around the country.

Mr Morrison told The Australian Financial Review that he had not sought to publicise his intervention. But he said it was “very clear you can’t do a workaround to the curfew”. “It’s not transparent or proper, [if the government wants to change the rules] they should bring in a change to the law,” he said.

A Sydney Airport spokesman said the argument over the exemption “just highlighted how out of date the current rules are”.

“Whether the dispensation stays or goes, the fact is that the existing legislation mandates using older, noisier freight aircraft during curfew,” he said, a reference to DC-9s and BAe-146s which have long been able to travel in and out of Sydney Airport earlier than 6am under the rules. Neither aircraft is commonly used, having been replaced by quieter planes.

Since February, BAe-146s have no longer been permitted to fly to Bankstown Airport, creating more demand for freight to arrive at Sydney Airport.

“We would like to see a commonsense modernisation of the rules to permit quieter, next-generation aircraft,” the Sydney Airport spokesman said.

However, in his letter, Mr Morrison said the timetable for Western Sydney Airport’s opening had been “established prior to the pandemic and any new business generated temporarily under dispensation agreements cannot be used as grounds to continue the dispensation, when the exceptional circumstances that enabled the dispensation are no longer present”.

“The additional overnight flying has allowed air freight operators to meet the structural increase in demand for e-commerce as well as help with the timely movement of freight into regional parts of the country,” a spokesman for Qantas Freight said on Tuesday.

Australia Post and Team Global Express declined to comment, or detail how much freight they carried on flights which faced cancellation.

Sydney Airport, which is now owned by IFM Investors and New York-based Global Infrastructure Partners after being acquired in a $23.6 billion takeover last year (https://www.afr.com/link/follow-20180101-p5dsk6), has long argued that the rules around the number of flights that can use the airport daily should change. Along with a curfew, there are other restrictions including one on the number of flights per hour – 80.

The Infrastructure Department has indicated that it intends to decide on whether to revoke the special dispensation by January 31.

[maggot]

So now Morrison wants to follow the law?

I like the curfew however the odd 34 arrival/16 departure is surely quite low impact?

[neville_nobody]

I think it's more about who do you allow to operate during the curfew. Why do freight airlines get a commercial benefit when the Middle East carriers or domestic airlines don't. In reality the Liberal Government should have just said no.

It might also have been a covert test of the curfew itself. Allow a dispensation on grounds of the pandemic and monitor how much pushback you get. I notice that Morrison has even hinted in his letter at not having a curfew. Personally I think there should be but it needs to stand as a blanket curfew to all operations not just hand power to the bureaucracy with exemption after exemption creeping in, which I think is Morrison's point.

I imagine there is alot going on in the background on this issue on so many fronts that it could go in any direction.

[chimbu warrior]

Those DC-9's must be hush-kitted and invisible, as I don't think I have seen (or heard) one in Australia for about 25 years.

[Lead Balloon]

[L]egal advice sought from Mark Robinson SC concluded that “the dispensations contravene relevant provisions of all three legislative instruments and subverts the rightful and lawful role of parliament”.Here’s what the Curfew Act says: 20 Dispensations in exceptional circumstances

(1) The Minister may grant a dispensation authorising an aircraft to take off from, or land at, Sydney Airport in circumstances that would otherwise contravene section 7, 10 or 11 if the Minister is satisfied that there are exceptional circumstances justifying the take‑ off or landing.

(2) A dispensation may be granted subject to conditions including, for example, conditions relating to when the take‑off or landing must occur and the runway to be used.

(3) In granting dispensations, the Minister must have regard to guidelines made under subsection (5).

(4) A dispensation need not be in writing, but a written record of each dispensation and the reasons for granting it must be made and must be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 5 sitting days of that House after the dispensation is granted.

(5) The Minister must, by legislative instrument, make guidelines about the granting of dispensations under this section including, in particular:

(a) what constitutes exceptional circumstances; and

(b) the conditions to which dispensations should be subject.

(7) The consultation procedures set out in the Schedule apply if the Minister proposes to make guidelines under subsection (5).The Guidelines are here (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/aviation-safety/aircraft-noise/airport-curfews/sydney/dispensations).

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I remember recently when SYD was affected by the Malaysian 'crisis'. I asked the local BNE ATC if delayed aircraft would be allowed in after curfew considering what had just been going on. He said "no chance!"

[missy]

Here’s what the Curfew Act says:The Guidelines are here (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/aviation-safety/aircraft-noise/airport-curfews/sydney/dispensations).

Simple, just update DAP East NAP. DAP East NAP Sydney p3 (https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/SSYNA03-173_07SEP2023.pdf)
4.3 GROUP OF AIRCRAFT THAT CAN OPERATE.
Only the following aircraft may take off or land at Sydney Aerodrome between 2300 and 0600 HR local time.
...
(b) The following types of aircraft with a MTOW of 34,000KG or less:...
Just double the weight and then add a few more kg.

[10JQKA]

I remember recently when SYD was affected by the Malaysian 'crisis'. I asked the local BNE ATC if delayed aircraft would be allowed in after curfew considering what had just been going on. He said "no chance!"

Pretty sure BNE ATC knows diddly squat about SY curfew dispensations that are managed by Dept of infrastructure. Anyway it is quite common for wx/ATC delayed acft to get dispensation til midnight for dep/arr on occasions.

[zlin77]

The Sydney Curfew Restrictions don't make sense, I used to operate Beech Queenairs there 24 hours a day in the NSW Air Ambulance, their flyover noise level at 5,000" is supposed to be louder than a 707! Maybe a more effective limit should be imposed on actual noise and not limited by weight/powerplants?

[C441]

It was always amusing years ago that the noisiest aircraft I've ever heard both in the air and on the ground, the IPEC Argosy freighter, could operate during the curfew but some significantly quieter jets could not….

[V333]

At least let modern low-noise aircraft land during curfew (with the requirement to limit reverse thrust unless operationally required). The initial 0600 rush could therefore be mostly departing aircraft easing terminal area and airport congestion and reducing noise associated with arrivals.

In any case, SYD airport was there long before the majority of homes and business that encroached upon it over the years.

[Lapon]

At least let modern low-noise aircraft land during curfew (with the requirement to limit reverse thrust unless operationally required). The initial 0600 rush could therefore be mostly departing aircraft easing terminal area and airport congestion and reducing noise associated with arrivals.

In any case, SYD airport was there long before the majority of homes and business that encroached upon it over the years.

I agree that the likes of the B787 should be allowed to land after 11pm and I wouldn't be surprised if there were changes to the curfew act over the next decade or two - although the presence of Badgerys might negate the need for change by then anyway.

I'd usually support the 'airport was there first' argument except in the case of YSSY. I'd say most households have moved into the area after the 1995 curfew so they would reasonably expect that to remain, and many of those innerwest properties have existed before the airport itself - certainly since before sealed runways and the jet age.

[Gne]

Slightly off topic but...
Comment in the McMichael Report on the Inquiry into Sydney PRM Approaches from the North:
"It is apparent people perceive aircraft noise with their eyes and not their ears."

Gne

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Pretty sure BNE ATC knows diddly squat about SY curfew dispensations that are managed by Dept of infrastructure. Anyway it is quite common for wx/ATC delayed acft to get dispensation til midnight for dep/arr on occasions.
They weren't weather or ATC delayed though. To be fair to the BNE ATC involved, he did add that the airlines were free to follow the normal application process for curfew dispensations, but in his experience.....no chance.

[10JQKA]

Maybe it's dependent on whether Chairman's Lounge memberships are in the mix or not ?

[missy]

Individual Dispensation Details for Period 19/06/2023 – 30/07/2023 (as tabled in Parliament on 1 August 2023).
Dispensation Report (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/tabling-report-11-01.08.2023.pdf)
Details of Dispensation
Date: Wednesday 28 June 2023
Aircraft: B737
Registrations: VH-YNU, VH-ONU, ZK-TLE-ZK-FXJ, ZK-FXK, ZK-JTQ, ZK-TLJ, ZK-TLK, ZK- TLL, ZK-FXM, ZK-TLM
Operator: IPEC Pty Ltd/Team Global Express Operation: Arrival and Departure
Circumstances Leading to Request: Dispensation granted to IPEC Pty Ltd/Team Global Express to operate up to 12 movements per week during the curfew period, being 9 movements per week allocated under the Sydney Airport Curfew Regulations 2023 and 3 movements per week in reliance upon this dispensation. The dispensation also provides for the use of B737 aircraft for the 12 movements per week.
Approved: Yes
Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a curfew dispensation.

Details of Dispensation
Date: Wednesday 28 June 2023
Aircraft: BAe-146, B737, A320
Registrations: VH-XML, VH-XMR, VH-XMB, VH-XMO, VH-VLI, VH-ONU, VH-YNU, VH-XNH, ZK-AWA, ZK-TLF, ZK-FXL, ZK-FXM, ZK-TLM, ZK-FXK, ZK-FXJ, VH-ULD, VH-ULW, VH- ULY
Operator: Qantas
Operation: Arrival and Departure
Circumstances Leading to Request: Dispensation granted to Qantas to operate up to 27 movements per week during the curfew period, as allocated under the Sydney Airport Curfew Regulations 2023 utilising BAe-146 aircraft along with B737 and A320 in reliance upon this dispensation aircraft.
Approved: Yes
Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a
curfew dispensation.

[missy]

Individual Dispensation Details for Period 6/03/2023 – 19/03/2023 (as tabled in Parliament on 21 March 2023).
Dispensation Report (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/Tabling%20Report%2004%202023.pdf)
Details of Dispensation:
Date: Friday 17 March 2023
Aircraft: B737/A321
Registrations: VH-XML, VH-XMR, VH-XMB, VH-XMO, VH-XNH, VH-ULD, VH-ULY, VH-VLI, VH-ONU, VH-YNU, ZK-AWA, ZK-TLF, ZK-FXL, ZK-FXM, ZK-TLM, ZK-FXK, ZK-FXJ
Operator: Qantas Airways
Operation: Arrival and Departure
Circumstances leading to Request: The continued pressure on the movement of urgent freight, led to a further request by Qantas Airlines to operate Boeing 737 (B737) and Airbus A321 aircraft for freight only purposes during the curfew period at Sydney Airport. A dispensation was granted for these aircraft to be operated for the 27 total movements already allocated to Qantas per week during curfew hours at Sydney Airport from 26 March 2023 to 1 July 2023.
Approved: Yes
Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a curfew dispensation.

[markis10]

Pretty sure BNE ATC knows diddly squat about SY curfew dispensations that are managed by Dept of infrastructure. Anyway it is quite common for wx/ATC delayed acft to get dispensation til midnight for dep/arr on occasions.

Prior to the Department taking over, ATC were responsible for said dispensation decisions via the SAAC position in Sydney, given the act hasn’t changed much in scope over the years its very likely former Sydney staff now work in Brisbane with a good knowledge of the decision process.

[Ascend Charlie]

Back in 2003, I was waiting at the eastern GA area at KSA for the arrival of a Gulfstream from NZ, due to land at 2130. The main passenger was Tom Cruise, and the Customs and Immigration people were waiting inside, as well as Junior Boss and Big Boss - who never liked to wait for anybody, and had arrived at 2130 expecting to leap into the chopper and go. But no. Tom was late leaving NZ and was hitting big headwinds across the puddle. Big Boss fuming.

Time dragged on. Choppers have a curfew of 2300, and at 2215 I rang the lady in charge to see if I could get a dispensation to leave a few minutes later. When I asked her, she said "No." I said that it was pretty important that we take off, so she asks "Is this a medical emergency?"
"It will be, because Big Boss will tear my @rse out if we can't go."
"Well, wait till he has torn it out and then call me, but if nobody is dying, nobody goes."
"How about if we ground taxy (on wheels) to the end of 16L and depart over water through the heads from there?"
"No."

Luckily around 2240 the jet arrived, the customs people did their thing, and we were airborne at 2257. I was glad to have my rear end intact.

[framer]

I like the story but don’t understand who ‘Big Boss’ is.
Is that the boss of the company you work for?

[Lead Balloon]

Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a curfew dispensation.Those aren’t “reasons”.

That’s just a self-serving assertion of the criterion on the basis of which the power to grant a dispensation may lawfully be exercised. As if a delegate would ever say that their "reasons" for granting a dispensation were that the delegate was not satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed.

“Reasons” explain how and why you reached the conclusion. There should be a statement of the specific facts taken into consideration by the delegate in each case, then an explanation of why the delegate, having had regard to the Guidelines, formed the view that those specific facts constituted ‘exceptional circumstances’.

[RampDog]

Back in 2003, I was waiting at the eastern GA area at KSA for the arrival of a Gulfstream from NZ, due to land at 2130. The main passenger was Tom Cruise, and the Customs and Immigration people were waiting inside, as well as Junior Boss and Big Boss - who never liked to wait for anybody, and had arrived at 2130 expecting to leap into the chopper and go. But no. Tom was late leaving NZ and was hitting big headwinds across the puddle. Big Boss fuming.

Time dragged on. Choppers have a curfew of 2300, and at 2215 I rang the lady in charge to see if I could get a dispensation to leave a few minutes later. When I asked her, she said "No." I said that it was pretty important that we take off, so she asks "Is this a medical emergency?"
"It will be, because Big Boss will tear my @rse out if we can't go."
"Well, wait till he has torn it out and then call me, but if nobody is dying, nobody goes."
"How about if we ground taxy (on wheels) to the end of 16L and depart over water through the heads from there?"
"No."

Luckily around 2240 the jet arrived, the customs people did their thing, and we were airborne at 2257. I was glad to have my rear end intact.

I would assume Ascend Charlie wishes to maintain confidentiatity. The "Big Boss" was also known in some circles as the Goanna! Google it if you still can't work it out

[framer]

Got it.

[markis10]

I would assume Ascend Charlie wishes to maintain confidentiatity. The "Big Boss" was also known in some circles as the Goanna! Google it if you still can't work it out

Methinks bigboss is the same person who told politicians he didn’t pay more tax because they (the politicians) were not spending well what they got.

[sunnySA]

Details of Dispensation
Date: Wednesday 28 June 2023
Aircraft: BAe-146, B737, A320
Registrations: VH-XML, VH-XMR, VH-XMB, VH-XMO, VH-VLI, VH-ONU, VH-YNU, VH-XNH, ZK-AWA, ZK-TLF, ZK-FXL, ZK-FXM, ZK-TLM, ZK-FXK, ZK-FXJ, VH-ULD, VH-ULW, VH- ULY
Operator: Qantas
Operation: Arrival and Departure
Circumstances Leading to Request: Dispensation granted to Qantas to operate up to 27 movements per week during the curfew period, as allocated under the Sydney Airport Curfew Regulations 2023 utilising BAe-146 aircraft along with B737 and A320 in reliance upon this dispensation aircraft.
Approved: Yes
Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a
curfew dispensation.
Last time I looked XMB and VLI were R22's!!

[MickG0105]

Last time I looked XMB and VLI were R22's!!
That may be what those regos are now, any chance that back when that dispensation was filed that they were B733 freighters? I'm pretty sure that XMB was retired from the Express fleet in August.

[RampDog]

Methinks bigboss is the same person who told politicians he didn’t pay more tax because they (the politicians) were not spending well what they got.
He knew how to intimidate them, he was an old school bully and didn't shy away from it :ouch: and always got what he needed, let alone wanted. Mega wheeler dealer Alan Bond would confirm that if he was still around bwahaha.

[Ascend Charlie]

He knew how to intimidate them, he was an old school bully and didn't shy away from it

Let me rephrase that:

He stood up to opponents, didn't let them bluff him, and he said things to politicians that others were only game to think.

[Mr Mossberg]

He was a great Australian who didn't take **** from anybody.

[framer]

He was a great Australian who didn't take **** from anybody.
Not enough moral fibre for me to consider him a ‘great Australian’.

[Ascend Charlie]

And your reasons for this judgement?

[MickG0105]

And as they turn into the straight, here comes Goanna. It's Goanna making a late run for the Thread Drift Cup.

[framer]

And your reasons for this judgement?
I like to see an overt example of extraordinarily high moral fibre before considering someone a ‘great Australian’. It’s a high bar for me. I understand others may not, it is just my opinion.

[Mr Mossberg]

Not enough moral fibre for me to consider him a ‘great Australian’.

More moral fibre in his left hand little finger fingernail than any politician or most Australians.

[Mr Mossberg]

I like to see an overt example of extraordinarily high moral fibre before considering someone a ‘great Australian’. It’s a high bar for me. I understand others may not, it is just my opinion.

Not having a crack at you framer, but there's probably a multitude of deeds done by KP that you'll never hear about, but here's just one:

How's about buying a Packer Wacker for every ambulance in NSW after being saved by an ambulance crew?

[megan]

A generous individual, paid off an individuals house mortgage because of services received, not your usual sort of tip in the service industry.

[Ascend Charlie]

Among many others:
sending his jet pilot to the US to his own heart specialist for treatment
sending a kindergarten-full of handicapped kids to Disneyland
buying a tractor from a kid salesman, not because he needed the tractor, he just liked the kid
donating 14 housefuls of near-new furniture to the Salvos
and a pile more.
But you probably won't change your opinion, and I can't be bothered trying any further.

[framer]

On further reflection I realise my initial statement was both flippant and foolish. It did nobody any good, achieved nothing, and I shouldn’t pass judgement on a persons character if I don’t know them very well.
My apologies,
Framer

[Mr Proach]

If I recall correctly, does the curfew act include a directive that if an aircraft conducts a go around, a report must be submitted to the minister?

[missy]

DETAILS OF DISPENSATION
Date: 30 November 2023
Aircraft: B737
Registration: VH-XZM
Operator: Qantas
Operation: Departure
Circumstances Leading to Request: Qantas flight QF499 (Sydney to Melbourne) was delayed departing
from Sydney Airport due to engineering issues requiring a replacement of the Integrated Drive Generator
Panel for #1 engine Additionally, there were delays in refuelling the aircraft once repairs were completed
and limited accommodation in Sydney. A dispensation was granted for take-off no later than 23:30 local
time. QF499 had 146 passengers including 2 wheelchair users and 6 crew on-board. The aircraft departed
at 23:58 local time.
Approved: Yes
Reasons for Approval: The Delegate was satisfied that exceptional circumstances existed for issue of a
curfew dispensation.
Really?

[SHVC]

The whole curfew thing needs to go anyway. It’s an outdated political move to get a few votes. The airport has been there longer than the residents. If you don’t like the noise don’t buy next to the pub.

[No Idea Either]

At that time of night, was there not another ‘spare’ 20 or so 73’s that could have done that flight….

[WingNut60]

The whole curfew thing needs to go anyway. It’s an outdated political move to get a few votes. The airport has been there longer than the residents. If you don’t like the noise don’t buy next to the pub.
It was also introduced at a time when everything ran off JT8Ds or R-R Spays.

[neville_nobody]

Really?

Interested to see the justification behind that decision. What is "exceptional" about a maintenance issue?

[unobtanium]

Interested to see the justification behind that decision. What is "exceptional" about a maintenance issue?

because someone "important" was on board and had to be in melb