Baghdad Air Port 1934 - Macrobertson Air Race UK to Australia

[FlyboyAl]

I am trying to find some information, hopefully photos, of aircraft at Baghdad Airport in October 1934!
The 1934 Macrobertson Air Race, from England to Australia had Baghdad as the first compulsory stop after leaving the UK.
I'm particularly interested in anything that includes the KLM DC2, named Uiver, in Baghdad.
My reason for asking for info is to try to link a postmark dated Oct 21, 1934 on a flight cover which I own and which has KLM written on it which tends to link it with Uiver, and Baghdad.
I've tried attaching a scan of the cover, but the forum won't let me.
Any help anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Alan in Adelaide, South Australia

[megan]

Hi Alan, you need about ten posts to be able to post photos, send to me at babrahamATnetspace.net.au and I'll post your scan for you. Whyalla boy :ok:

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Al - I don't know if you have seen this ? Later - Sorry Al ! Just realized that you appear to be the originator of the post on the link.
Anyway you've got the cover image on PPRuNe now !

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=100813

[FlyboyAl]

Small world isn't it - yes, that's me when I first got the cover.
I'm still trying to dig out information on it!!!!
Alan

[FlyboyAl]

Megan - I've emailed you.
alan

[Jhieminga]

Interesting cover! You could contact the Aviodrome Museum in The Netherlands as they have a large collection of documents and memorabelia related to Dutch aviation history: https://www.aviodrome.nl/informatie/contact/ (I can't find an English contact page unfortunately). I don't know how good they are at responding to collection/archive enquiries. Feel free to contact me as I'm happy to either call them myself or try a couple of e-mail addresses that I have but cannot post here.

[FlyboyAl]

Thanks Jheiminga, I' wander around their site over the next few days and see what I can find.
Alan

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Al - I've spent a bit of time looking for images of the KLM DC2 at Baghdad - can't find any. Probably because it transited through Baghdad during the hours of darkness.

[FlyboyAl]

The interesting thing is that I cant seem to find almost any references or info on any of the aircraft going through Baghdad. The other ports yes, but Baghdad is just not mentioned anywhere that I can find.

[FlyboyAl]

I wonder if they went via the RAF base at Hinaidi outside Baghdad??? But even that draws a blank for the Air Race participants.
Without doing this digging (research?) I would never have even known about the RAF base.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

You will just have to keep digging. Baghdad was a mandatory transit stop for all competitors. Jim and Amy Mollison led the race at that point in their Comet Racer, landing at Baghdad at night on the 20th October. Next was the K.L.M. DC2 which landed there three hours behind them.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/prod--slnsw-corporate-site/uploads/2018-06/collection-items/56481/a3214040h.jpg

Al I extracted this from:https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/stories/aviation-australia/macrobertson-centenary-air-race

[megan]

Megan - I've emailed youNothing has shown up Alan, thus far.

[FlyboyAl]

Hmm. I'll try one more post, and I might then be able to post an image!

[FlyboyAl]

Here is the cover I am researching.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x620/date_1934_baghdad_postmark_f_1d79611d7babbd90f020a5083e188a3 0436ec4e5.jpg

[FlyboyAl]

woohoo - finally got an image to show.
As you can see, KLM written on it, and the elusive Baghdad Air Port postmark, supposedly only used for the Air Race.

I've found 1 photo of the airport building, and a photo taken from Tanui, the New Zealand entrant of Baghdad.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/959x727/capture_be69e4eb7857ca5eeb9b4d200eaf61e799e53ca5.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x597/baghdad_from_tanui_af552c747565c014176d5ea03b9db8db26df0f91. jpg

[Jhieminga]

I just had a thought... if this cover you're researching left Baghdad on 21st October 1934 and was going to Edinburgh, why would it be carried on the DC-2 'Uiver' which was heading in the opposite direction? KLM had a regular service between Amsterdam and Batavia in those days, stopping at various places along the way, and it would make more sense to me if this particular cover traveled on the regular Batavia to Amsterdam machine as it passed through Baghdad, before being carried onwards to Edinburgh.

As it was posted on 21st October 1934, they may well have used a special postmark that was only applied during those few days when the race passed through Baghdad, but a connection with the 'Uiver' is a bit far-fetched now that I'm thinking about it. It did not return to Amsterdam until a month later, on 21 November 1934, so carrying this particular cover on the return flight would make it a very late arrival.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

I think the explanation is that the letter was carried from England by the KLM DC2 as far as Baghdad from where it was posted back to Scotland. I have to add that I Know B.... All about stamp collecting but it seems that on arriving in Australia that some of these special 'Covers' would then be posted by normal air mail services.
Perhaps Al can enlighten us ?

However I do see your point Jhieminga because one would expect the envelope to also carry a British Stamp (Which it doesn't) if my explanation is to stand scrutiny. I suppose the possibility is that the letter originated from Baghdad in the first place. (So take no notice of my previous ramblin').

What say you Al ?


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/875x700/screenshot_2023_11_14_at_12_09_32_oct_1934_aamc_433_macrober tson_air_race_registered_cover_flown_and_signed_by_scott_cam pbell_black_100_flown_c833e425e4d4301e3c41335fb974cac506778c f4.png

[Jhieminga]

My knowledge of stamps, covers and such is b... all plus a smidge, so we're pretty much on the same level there. I would expect a British stamp and cancellation as well if this cover travelled from the UK to Baghdad.

There is an example here: https://www.steveirwinstamps.co.uk/aamc-444-1934-20-oct-official-macrobertson-air-race-holland-to-australia-via-london-acff307-40334-p.asp showing a cover that travelled from The Hague to London and onwards to Melbourne on the KLM DC-2. The stamps are Dutch and the postage was canceled in The Netherlands a few days prior to the race starting (15th October if I'm reading the image correctly). The problem is that there may have been various types of mail on board the DC-2, both special covers that were carried back and forth and perhaps some regular mail, seeing as how KLM treated the flight as just another scheduled trip.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

I think this is my final ramble.

October 21st 1934 was a Sunday. The next KLM westbound service Batavia-Amsterdam was scheduled to depart Baghdad on Tuesday 23rd October. So it's quite conceivable as Jhieminga suggested that AL's envelope was carried on that flight having been posted at Baghdad Airport by a person perhaps serving or resident in Iraq.

https://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/kl34b/kl34b-3.jpg

[Planemike]

Here is the cover I am researching.<br /><br /><br /><img src="https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x620/date_1934_baghdad_postmark_f_1d79611d7babbd90f020a5083e188a3 0436ec4e5.jpg"></img><br /><span style="color:#000000;">As you can see, KLM written on it, and the elusive Baghdad Air Port postmark, supposedly only used for the Air Race.</span><br /><br />Is there any reason to suppose the cancellation postmark was only used for the Air Race....?? Nothing would stop it being used at other times. Obviously the date will change but no other features that pin it to "the race".

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

" Excuse me Sir (AL) me name's Dr Watson.OUWotsit has obtained my services, briefly and for a modest fee. May I ask you if you recognize this?"

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/510x316/screenshot_2023_11_14_at_17_24_57_iraq_klm_airmail_rare_bagh dad_airport_england_australia_flight_1934_2b6e67656258b827f5 b73aa01f7c99fd866d75b6.png

[FlyboyAl]

" Excuse me Sir (AL) me name's Dr Watson.OUWotsit has obtained my services, briefly and for a modest fee. May I ask you if you recognize this?"

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/510x316/screenshot_2023_11_14_at_17_24_57_iraq_klm_airmail_rare_bagh dad_airport_england_australia_flight_1934_2b6e67656258b827f5 b73aa01f7c99fd866d75b6.png

That is the back of my cover which confirms that it was posted in Baghdad on Oct 21.

[FlyboyAl]

I think the explanation is that the letter was carried from England by the KLM DC2 as far as Baghdad from where it was posted back to Scotland. I have to add that I Know B.... All about stamp collecting but it seems that on arriving in Australia that some of these special 'Covers' would then be posted by normal air mail services.
Perhaps Al can enlighten us ?

However I do see your point Jhieminga because one would expect the envelope to also carry a British Stamp (Which it doesn't) if my explanation is to stand scrutiny. I suppose the possibility is that the letter originated from Baghdad in the first place. (So take no notice of my previous ramblin').

What say you Al ?


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/875x700/screenshot_2023_11_14_at_12_09_32_oct_1934_aamc_433_macrober tson_air_race_registered_cover_flown_and_signed_by_scott_cam pbell_black_100_flown_c833e425e4d4301e3c41335fb974cac506778c f4.png
To the best of my knowledge (and I'm still learning!), these covers were carried on the race, then stamped and cancelled in Australia. And yes, I'd love to have THAT cover!!!!

[FlyboyAl]

<br /><br /><br />Is there any reason to suppose the cancellation postmark was only used for the Air Race....?? Nothing would stop it being used at other times. Obviously the date will change but no other features that pin it to "the race".
Good point - I'm only going on other information that I've received.

If this post has done nothing else, it has made me look at other options, particularly that it was posted in Baghdad and sent to the UK on a normal KLM flight, rather than Uiver.

I'm off to work now,, but this will keep me thinking all day.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Alan, it has been very interesting and fun too ! You are a lucky chap to possess such a rare survivor - just think of the number of such envelopes that would have been chucked in the rubbish basket or put on the fire all those years ago. Hope you will continue to contribute to PPRuNe. All the best. Some good pics here:
https://www.uivermemorial.org.au/race_album.html

[Planemike]

Good point - I'm only going on other information that I've received.&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;If this post has done nothing else, it has made me look at other options, particularly that it was posted in Baghdad and sent to the UK on a normal KLM flight, rather than Uiver.&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;I'm off to work now,, but this will keep me thinking all day.&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;&amp;amp;lt;br /&amp;amp;gt;Thanks to everyone for your input.All the evidence presented to date points to the item originating in Bagdad: an Imperial Bank of Persia envelope with Iraqi stamps and franked at the airport. It would appear that other KLM aircraft, besides DC2 PH-AJU "Uiver", were passing though Bagdad on a regular basis, likely carrying airmail.
Just as an aside, have you read Stuart McKay's excellent book on the race: ""Mildenhall to Melbourne, The World's Greatest Air Race "" ??

[megan]

other KLM aircraft, besides DC2 PH-AJU "Uiver", were passing though Bagdad on a regular basis, likely carrying airmailFrom what I gather at the time of the air race KLM only owned the one DC-2, immediately following the race success the airline ordered fourteen more, followed later by a further three.

KLM’s first intercontinental flight took off on 1 October 1924. The final destination was Jakarta (then called ‘Batavia’), Java, in the Dutch East Indies; the flight used a Fokker F.VII with registration H-NACC and was piloted by Van der Hoop. In September 1929, regular scheduled services between Amsterdam and Batavia commenced. The regular run was made by Fokker FVIIA/3m until the DC-2.

[washoutt]

And also the Fokker F-XVIII and others.

[Jhieminga]

They started out with the Fokker F.VII (first trip by H-NACC was very much a trial run), starting the commercial flights with the /3m variant. KLM then went on to use F.IX, F.XII and F.XVIII models before switching to Douglas-built options. I may have skipped over some interim solutions... but these were the types that formed the backbone of the East-Indies line in those pre-WWII days.

And thanks for letting us share in an interesting puzzle like this!

[FlyboyAl]

I've thought about this most of the day and I think the postmark is the collectable part of this cover, rather than the cover itself - it was just a normal flight from Baghdad to Scotland.
Ironically I have another envelope from Baghdad to the UK, but with normal postmarks and to a Squadron Ldr Townsend. And that was another interesting research story!!!

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1800x1105/townend_r_d4d2cae483fa3f58fba433e37ac0403f98951a29.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1801x1114/townsend_f_826818dbb6652be17faa3702cdb6a12f34005b03.jpg

He had a long and successful career in the RAF.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1949x1348/date_1976_feb_17_signed_townsend_062152cb9cf104dac58ad4b1413 d7863dca31d77.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1949x1348/date_1976_feb_17_signed_townsend_r_da05dc9f0d38ad9dae661d547 580fc0797d9269b.jpg

And just to wind it all up, here are some covers that REALLY did fly on Uiver to Australia
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1405x1059/0444_f_750e889b4406403975d50688721062a1bd3b47e1.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1767x1388/0444_knlim__41abf16da91d4eb579067b6de0b291cfcd7f72c0.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x2000/0445_f_c0850587c2a6e1f02a9724371e3ebc740ed861c2.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/762x506/0446_f_76db41863db8f2d55a80ea49d11b77396466b33f.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/760x502/0446_r_80c3768bd533da1b1d29d4689d13314d3bc1b89b.jpg

[OUAQUKGF Ops]

Interesting I see your second Baghdad Cover from The Imperial Bank Of Persia (shortly to find itself in difficulties) is in the same hand as your first example.

[FlyboyAl]

Interesting I see your second Baghdad Cover from The Imperial Bank Of Persia (shortly to find itself in difficulties) is in the same hand as your first example.
Yes, but it was nice to have someone confirm what I suspected!
One can only surmise who it was in the bank - a mail clerk, a secretary, a manager - I guess we will never know :<(((
And I can't fathom what "1st duplicate service" which is handwritten on the back, could be.
I doubt it is anything to do with flying, but who knows.
alan