View Full Version : C421 ditching off Sunshine coast
subsonic85
9th Nov 2023, 22:27
A C421 off the Sunshine Coast has ditched at 2306Z/0906 local. Rescue helicopter arrived at site at 2317Z/0917 local. Hope everyone is OK
AussieNick
9th Nov 2023, 22:32
Rescue 511 has gotten both crew out of the water and is heading home.
Capt Fathom
9th Nov 2023, 22:42
12 hour flight to Pago Pago. Very lucky to get out and be so close to rescue facilities.
Going Nowhere
9th Nov 2023, 22:48
https://fr24.com/data/aircraft/vh-vpy#32c61630
Climbed to 12,000’ feet, my guess is overweight for the ferry, suffered an engine failure maybe and turned back, the best they could do was stay in the air for 35 mins then ditched…..
bloody lucky it wasn’t later…
anyway good they are ok.
Two people have been winched from a life raft after a light plane crash off the Sunshine Coast this morning.
The Coastguard said the Cessna Challenger Learjet ditched into the ocean at Barwon Banks, 20 nautical miles east off Mooloolaba just before 9am.
The two people, whose condition is unknown, were floating in a life raft at the site of the crash, the coastguard said.
They are being transported to the Sunshine Coast University Hospital.
No wonder it crashed. It actually has Continental engines fitted.
KyleJR
9th Nov 2023, 23:51
“Water Police, Coast Guard, Marine Rescue, LifeFlight and Rescue 500 are all on the scene of a reported plane crash off the coast of Mooloolaba.
LifeFlight's Rescue 511 is currently transporting an unknown number of patients, whilst Rescue 500 continues a search assisting maritime resources.
It's reported that the Cessna 421 aircraft reported having trouble at around 8:20am, and advised they would be turning back to Sunshine Coast Airport. Shortly before 9:10am, it's believed the aircraft has collided with the water.
Additional water police from Brisbane are enroute to the area.
Update 1 | Rescue 511 has landed at the Sunshine Coast University Hospital. Rescue 500 has been stood down and are now returning to base. A nearby oil tanker also rendered assistance and launched their lifeboat to assist the aircraft prior to the arrival of emergency services. Valid as of 10:07am.”
john_tullamarine
10th Nov 2023, 00:12
Two threads merged.
junior.VH-LFA
10th Nov 2023, 00:33
The Coastguard said the Cessna Challenger Learjet ditched into the ocean at Barwon Banks, 20 nautical miles east off Mooloolaba just before 9am.
How do I go about getting type rated on one of these? :E
Captain Garmin
10th Nov 2023, 00:37
Seems crew are OK.
https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/rescue-crews-scrambled-after-light-aircraft-reportedly-ditched/news-story/4f2d3dcdb76e7777ea89d47fd6da756a?amp
chuboy
10th Nov 2023, 00:42
“Water Police, Coast Guard, Marine Rescue, LifeFlight and Rescue 500 are all on the scene of a reported plane crash off the coast of Mooloolaba.
LifeFlight's Rescue 511 is currently transporting an unknown number of patients, whilst Rescue 500 continues a search assisting maritime resources.
It's reported that the Cessna 421 aircraft reported having trouble at around 8:20am, and advised they would be turning back to Sunshine Coast Airport. Shortly before 9:10am, it's believed the aircraft has collided with the water.
Additional water police from Brisbane are enroute to the area.
Update 1 | Rescue 511 has landed at the Sunshine Coast University Hospital. Rescue 500 has been stood down and are now returning to base. A nearby oil tanker also rendered assistance and launched their lifeboat to assist the aircraft prior to the arrival of emergency services. Valid as of 10:07am.”
Well done to all for facilitating a great outcome. Going quiet with nothing but deep blue in every direction is not high on my bucket list :bored:
Ixixly
10th Nov 2023, 01:00
Did a similar flight a long time ago in an Islander out of Gold Coast heading East and the thought of being in their situation was definitely high on my mind, looks like they did an excellent job and came home alive. One thing I remember being told about that giant bladder sitting behind me was that I was fairly overweight and if the worst happened just turn on the pumps and let it start dumping overboard if needed to get that weight down, just a thought for anyone having to do a ferry in the future, think about how you can get rid of all that extra weight if the situation should arise so you can get as close to rescue as possible, every minute counts when you're out in middle of the cold ocean!
Sailvi767
10th Nov 2023, 01:16
As we used to say in the Navy, 1 minute of flying equals one week of swimming. Get as close to somewhere as you can!
Dick Smith
10th Nov 2023, 01:21
Cessna Challenger Learjet. - I luv it!
Cessna Challenger Learjet. - I luv it!
ABC News mentioned that aircraft model in their early report but have since amended it :)
Well done to all for facilitating a great outcome. Going quiet with nothing but deep blue in every direction is not high on my bucket list :bored:
12,000’ then turning around to ditching after 35 mins means they didn’t go quiet, they were probably over weight and couldn’t maintain any altitude. My guess 1 engine failed. 35 mins to hit the water
Climbed to 12,000’ feet, my guess is overweight for the ferry, suffered an engine failure maybe and turned back, the best they could do was stay in the air for 35 mins then ditched…..
bloody lucky it wasn’t later…
anyway good they are ok.
Makes you wonder if they cooked an engine on the way up.
421C is turbocharged?
mullokintyre
10th Nov 2023, 02:39
ABC News mentioned that aircraft model in their early report but have since amended it :)
They have not improved it much.
The twin cessna has been demoted to a recreational Aircraft.The pilot and a passenger of a recreational aircraft that ditched into the ocean off the Sunshine Coast gave a "thumbs-up" to rescuers moments before they were winched to safety.Key points:
Two men, both in their 50s, were winched to safety after their light aircraft ditched into the ocean
Paramedics say their life raft was taking on water when they were rescued
The men were taken to hospital as a precaution, but have since been discharged
Emergency services received a distress call just before 9am on Friday from the crew of a fixed-wing Cessna which had lost one of its twin engines while travelling from Caloundra airport to the Solomon Islands.
The crew — two men aged 51 and 59 — were able to alert authorities of their location, 30 nautical miles east of Mooloolaba near Barwon Banks.
A nearby Royal Flying Doctors Service (RFDS) aircraft was then able to circle the crash site and provide the crew of Rescue 511 with an accurate location of the ditching.
The crew was able to inflate a life raft and climb out of the plane by the time paramedics arrived.
runway16
10th Nov 2023, 04:08
Do we know the initials of the crew?
megan
10th Nov 2023, 04:34
Going quiet with nothing but deep blue in every direction is not high on my bucket listSomething you get used to, even when single engine only.
I made a post a bit earlier quoting directly from the ABC news Web Site which named it as a "Cessna Challenger Lear jet".
We should know the ABC News is always correct in reporting , especially for anything left wing , so I simply repeated what was quoted knowing fully well the ABC cant be wrong!!:E
My biggest mistake was not asking the Australian Aviation Expert , Geoffry T , to use his incredible knowledge and confirm it first.
Note to self : Always check with GT first.:(
Over the deep blue the thing is to be prepared for that (unlikely) eventuality.
Engine(s) don’t know what’s below, rainforest or water. It’s how one arrives at the surface they’re given is the important bit. Good sea state and a retractable helps.
Glad to see their problem came early enough for a speedy recovery. Pity about the aircraft.
Be interested to see the cause responsible.
Where we’re they heading off to.?
To all involved - what an impressive rescue and an amazing result.
They had a RDFS Kingair overhead to watch and mark their spot of impact - Rescue 511 was airborne before they hit the water - RFDS able to circle above to direct R511 to the location - Rescue 500 was airborne not long after they hit the water as well from AF to assist if needed - water police were enroute - and one of the media reported a nearby ship was also en-route.
I doubt they were in the water 15 mins, luckily as they seemed to have the smallest life raft available.
RFDS/Lifeflight/AsA/QGAir - amazing work - those 2 owe their lives to an awesome co-ordinated rescue.
Post 19 says Solomon Islands. Wow, ditching could have been a very long way from anywhere.
Capt Fathom
10th Nov 2023, 05:41
Where we’re they heading off to?
Pago Pago (American Samoa)
SWMBO
10th Nov 2023, 06:18
I was asking a well known local about this incident, I was informed it was Andrew Davies who is or was a LAME at Sunshine Coast Airport. Maybe returning the 421 to the USA.
AAKEE
10th Nov 2023, 08:37
They have not improved it much.
The twin cessna has been demoted to a recreational Aircraft.
They went fishing - must be recreational A/C.
(Seems like a well handled emergency and rescue? Hope they all are well!
Squawk7700
10th Nov 2023, 08:53
It would be great to hear the whole
thing pan out on Live ATC.
Video of the RACQ LifeFlight winching from raft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kg7SJYcKlU
golfbananajam
10th Nov 2023, 09:24
Rescue 511 has gotten both crew out of the water and is heading home.
gotten?
Channel 10 news (Queensland) reports that the ditching will be investigated by the LIGHT AIRCRAFT INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION who will no doubt leave the aircraft on the bottom of the ocean floor as the crew has been rescued.
compressor stall
10th Nov 2023, 10:05
gotten?
yes they did.
“Gotten” is actually old English, taken and preserved in Americas by the breadth of the Atlantic where it’s still common, but became virtually obsolete in England and its more modern colonies (AU/NZ etc).
Kulwin Park
10th Nov 2023, 10:46
So an 8-seater twin engine plane, once the golden bird of business planes in the 80's, has now become a listed Ultralight ?????????????????
Chronic Snoozer
10th Nov 2023, 11:26
gotten?
Haven't you ever gotten an aircraft to go somewhere?
Lucky crew. Nobody dares to check out the later pilots swim part of ETOPS operations...
vee1-rotate
10th Nov 2023, 14:41
wtf kind of liferaft is that? looks like it could barely fit a ham sandwich
MakeItHappenCaptain
10th Nov 2023, 17:25
That one looks pretty luxurious! The single person Switlik ISPLR (aka a Shark Taco) is your "ham sandwich" model...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_RT4YDBPfE&themeRefresh=1
SWMBO
I was asking a well known local about this incident, I was informed it was XXX XXX
Yeah, nice job identifying someone on a public forum second hand like that... You may want to edit that one out.
mickjoebill
10th Nov 2023, 20:01
The rescue video indicates the sea conditions were in their favour for ditching, egress and rescue.
Mjb
Ixixly
10th Nov 2023, 22:57
The rescue video indicates the sea conditions were in their favour for ditching, egress and rescue.
Mjb
lovely day for a bob in the ocean :P
Desert Flower
11th Nov 2023, 00:15
Cessna Challenger Learjet. - I luv it!
Yes - so do I!
DF.
Matt48
11th Nov 2023, 06:55
"No wonder it crashed. It actually has Continental engines fitted."
They say the spare engine is there to get you to the crash site.
Matt48
11th Nov 2023, 07:08
How do I go about getting type rated on one of these? :E
Cessna Challenger Learjet,
Light aircraft.
Fixed wing Cessna.
Marvellous bit of reporting. !
Marvellous bit of reporting. !
Makes one wonder about other subjects and how accurate?? the reporting is.
Most "reporting" today appears to be "opinion"
Squawk7700
11th Nov 2023, 19:16
Makes one wonder about other subjects and how accurate?? the reporting is.
Most "reporting" today appears to be "opinion"
Spot on, because we aren’t experts in those fields, we don’t know how wrong they are.
They have plenty of political and crime reporters who generally get it right, however unless it’s an aviation incident that’s big enough to arouse the interest of Geoff Thomas, they are in the dark.
Peter Fanelli
11th Nov 2023, 21:37
wtf kind of liferaft is that? looks like it could barely fit a ham sandwich
Probably one small enough to go through the emergency exit of a C421.
43Inches
11th Nov 2023, 22:35
From that picture it looks like the aircraft has hit bottom in a vertical position with just the tail sticking out. Should not be hard to recover it.
Was the life raft carried on board or dropped to them from the air?
As for that single person raft, the video showed both inflation with the user standing in a steady position, whilst it does not look hard to operate, it probably would have been better to demonstrate operating and getting on board swimming in a wave pool, as that's far more likely a scenario. Any training involved in boarding a raft should involve wave action, it more than doubles the difficulty of use.
runway16
12th Nov 2023, 00:38
The ditching of the Cessna brings out several things to remember/check for overwater flying.
If two or more persons then have a buddy line to connect the people together.
That the lifejackets are aviation approved, not a marine type with no light or whistle.
That lifejackets have an annual check/service to make sure they will work when needed.
The same applies to life rafts. Remember the case of a Trans Pacific ferry that came down and the raft had not been
serviced in a long time and the maker had gone out of business some years before.
That a raft has an attachment line secured to the lifejacket people so that it does not drift away as in the ditching mentioned above.
A lifejacket is better if it has a hood to prevent water being splashed into ones face and waves trying to drown you while in the life jacket.
Have a crotch strap to ensure that the life jacket person stays in the jacket and does not slowly slip out of it with time.
In a light single it is a must to have the door or canopy cracked open in the ditching to prevent an issue of not being able to exit the aircraft after splash down due to the hatch/door being jammed or water pressure preventing it being opened. That aspect alone has taken more than one aviator to the bottom.
If going more than gliding distance to at least the shore line then have life jackets available and know how to use them and put them on under pressure. The lower you fly the less time there is to put a life jacket on.
R
Cloudee
12th Nov 2023, 01:41
From that picture it looks like the aircraft has hit bottom in a vertical position with just the tail sticking out. Should not be hard to recover.
I’d suggest the air trapped in the tail kept it afloat for a little while. 35 nm out to sea. I’d be very surprised if the ATSB would spend the money to recover it.
43Inches
12th Nov 2023, 02:14
I’d suggest the air trapped in the tail kept it afloat for a little while. 35 nm out to sea. I’d be very surprised if the ATSB would spend the money to recover it.
It seemed pretty stable in the water for something afloat. Also i'm not sure much air could be trapped in the tail to keep 2 tons of metal floating.
Capt Fathom
12th Nov 2023, 02:28
A ferry bladder full of fuel may do it!
megan
12th Nov 2023, 02:29
If going more than gliding distance to at least the shore line then have life jackets available and know how to use them and put them on under pressure. The lower you fly the less time there is to put a life jacket onWen the emergency occurs, particularly in a single engine, it's a bit late to be thinking about donning a life jacket, if planning over water flight don the jacket and adjust prior to entering the cockpit.You can't foretell the emergency or circumstances that may put you in the water, if you're not wearing it you wont be getting out of the cockpit with it.
Horatio Leafblower
12th Nov 2023, 04:32
From that picture it looks like the aircraft has hit bottom in a vertical position with just the tail sticking out. Should not be hard to recover it.
This is all you need to know about the veracity of post-accident analysis on PPRuNe.
Ascend Charlie
12th Nov 2023, 04:48
The local news said that 2 passengers had been recovered, but there was no word about the pilot....
TwoFiftyBelowTen
12th Nov 2023, 05:20
… “a fixed-wing Cessna…..”
I’ve never heard anyone say anything positive about a rotary-wing Cessna
Capt Fathom
12th Nov 2023, 05:40
The Cessna CH-1 Skyhook is the only helicopter ever built by the Cessna Aircraft Company. It was the first helicopter to land on the summit of Pike's Peak and the last piston-engined helicopter to set the helicopter altitude record.
:) :ok:
helispotter
12th Nov 2023, 06:02
It seemed pretty stable in the water for something afloat. Also i'm not sure much air could be trapped in the tail to keep 2 tons of metal floating.
With a MTOW of 3379kg (wiki), the sea water you have to displace for it to float is only 3.3 cubic metres. That seems possible from all that is already submerged even if the cabin was partly flooded up when crew got out. With a pressurised cabin, if weather stays calm, it might even stay afloat. Did it?
Global Aviator
12th Nov 2023, 07:03
With a MTOW of 3379kg (wiki), the sea water you have to displace for it to float is only 3.3 cubic metres. That seems possible from all that is already submerged even if the cabin was partly flooded up when crew got out. With a pressurised cabin, if weather stays calm, it might even stay afloat. Did it?
I wonder what the ferry MTOW was, certainly not experienced here but don’t you get an overload MTOW?
It’s Sunday so to lazy to work out weights but 9 hours flight I read somewhere that’s around 1200kg of fuel required give or take.
Been 20 years since I flew the 421 so can’t remember, funnily enough I do have a brand new in plastic C421C POM! If I had it I’d probably look it up to answer my own question above 🤣.
MakeItHappenCaptain
12th Nov 2023, 10:29
I wonder what the ferry MTOW was, certainly not experienced here but don’t you get an overload MTOW?
Under CASA regs, a minor modification will allow up to 110% MTOW. Bit more work required to get anything more (classed as a major modification), but twin otters for example have a flight manual supplement permitting up to 40% over MTOW. Lose an engine though, and you are pretty much guaranteed to be swimming if you’re still over MTOW when it goes.
And inexperienced pilots still think it’s a great way to build hours…😎
Capt Fathom
12th Nov 2023, 10:38
And inexperienced pilots still think it’s a great way to build hours…😎
Please elaborate!
Have a crotch strap
If you add a crotch strap to a life jacket it makes that life jacket unserviceable.
You need to buy ones with crotch straps.
And you do need them - from personal experience.