Jetstar Boeing 787 refurb

[MelbourneFlyer]

Just saw this one, Jetstar has announced a “multi-million dolllar“ refurb for its 788 fleet. New business & economy seats, wi-fi, plus “lie-flat crew rest areas, enabling longer flights” to US west coast, India, Sri Lanka and Africa. New cabin config will be 44J + 281Y. Work will take place “during scheduled aircraft maintenance from late 2025.”

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/jetstar-787-business-class-refurbishment

[brokenagain]

Does longer routes mean more airframes required?

[transition_alt]

I’m really not sure why a LCC such as Jetstar requires more business class seats when the parent company is a full service carrier…

[Jbrownie]

The seats arent "business", its more a premium ecnomy product and fits well with the LCC model for JQ. loads are full and they are making money.
They dont have any option other than to invest in their widebody for the mid-life refurb as no one wants to buy a first gen 787-8 with no crew rest while many airlines are scrapping them.
XLR will take over most 787 routes with maybe their own premium economy, but yes they definetly need 3+ more frames

[cLeArIcE]

I’m really not sure why a LCC such as Jetstar requires more business class seats when the parent company is a full service carrier…
Ever tried to staff travel on it? It's never free it's always booked out. It obviously makes $$..
Plus the aircraft is probably too heavy to do longer routes with the current seating configuration. ( I'm guessing, I wouldn't know I don't fly it)
JQ "business" for a premium Econ style product on a LCC is actually pretty good. It's much better than scoot etc.
My question is how you can operate with enough frequency to service India, Jo'burg etc plus the current network with so few aircraft. Apart from DPS, the XLR will probably do CNS to NRT/KIX but can't see it replacing SIN/ HKT/ BKK etc.
Its good news for the 787 crews. Puts to bed the 787s will be sold off rumours.

[PoppaJo]

Puts to bed the 787s will be sold off rumours.
The reality is they are highly unattractive, which is why they struggled a few years ago attempting to do so. Early models, -8, no crew rest, extensive engineering past, wing paints required, D checks required.

You won’t be seeing another D check after this upcoming one is completed. This will be the last run before they hit the vending machines.

[Sailvi767]

OMG! 325 people on a 787-800? Please someone kill me if I ever book a long haul flight on 800 with that many seats! Do they take out the galley’s and lavs? United seats 218 and coach is not exactly generous!

[morno]

OMG! 325 people on a 787-800? Please someone kill me if I ever book a long haul flight on 800 with that many seats! Do they take out the galley’s and lavs? United seats 218 and coach is not exactly generous!

Lucky for you, there’s no such thing as a 787-800, so you’ll be spared such an atrocity.

[a_pilot]

I heard numerous times during covid the Jetstar B787 will never fly again or otherwise go back to Qantas. 🤣 especially once the NEO arrives.

I never believed them but no point arguing with some know it all's 😁

Please tell me again what will happen or maybe I can paste some quotes 😅

[kcboy]

Is the crew rest just for pilots? Or is there beds for CC too

[ShandywithSugar]

Just saw this one,

You mean , just published this.

[PoppaJo]

I heard numerous times during covid the Jetstar B787 will never fly again or otherwise go back to Qantas. 🤣 especially once the NEO arrives.

I never believed them but no point arguing with some know it all's 😁

Please tell me again what will happen or maybe I can paste some quotes 😅
Well do you blame them at the time?

A 787 fleet that never made money. A fleet that was partially put up for sale in 2019. A fleet that has been littered with engineering issues. Approaching D checks.

Covid was the perfect time to dispose of them. The saving grace, in today’s green earnings from the fleet, is that nobody wanted them.

The reality is the group is stuck with them until scrap, any future downturn or global event, they will be the first fleet to be scrapped.

[dragon man]

Will anyone be held responsible for ordering them without a crew rest in the first place? I wonder if the increased J class will score an additional toilet.

[The The]

Didn't they initially pay extra to have the crew rest removed as it was a standard boeing fitment?

I would have thought these would be a suitable replacement for the Qantas domestic A330s, at least 10yrs younger, great for east-west flying. But I guess the gradual Jetstar takeover of Qantas shows no signs of abating even after Joyce.

[Potsie Weber]

Will anyone be held responsible for ordering them without a crew rest in the first place?.

Yes, paid in full to Dixon. $4.1m bonus when he ordered them in 2005.

[a_pilot]

Well do you blame them at the time?


Some people always preach doom and gloom, create drama and apparently know everything.

The same type of people who said covid was the end or the world as we knew it.

Suppose you don't blame them here either ?

[Transition Layer]

Sounds to me like they’re just getting the jets ready for their handover to mainline :p

[aussieflyboy]

Sounds to me like they’re just getting the jets ready for their handover to mainline :p

Handover to NJS or NAA you mean…

[PoppaJo]

Some people always preach doom and gloom, create drama and apparently know everything.

The same type of people who said covid was the end or the world as we knew it.

Suppose you don't blame them here either ?

I get your point but the fact was back then, a quarter of the -8 fleet was put up for sale. It was certainly no trade secret around the group that the Jetstar 787 operation was not performing.

The market has since shifted due to an unprecedented global event, International ops are currently margin rich, unlike ever seen before. Remains to be seen how long those margins will hold, it does appear people have shifted discretionary spend away from retail, and into travel.

[Hollywood1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuFDEDSVcLA

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Its good news for the crews on the Jq 787 fleet. After their treatment during covid from all quarters, its a welcome change.

As far as other individuals negativity, I think you will find that most simply dont care what you think.

MCD

[LostontheLOC]

Some of these comments are amazing.

Looks like extra frames are on the horizon as well.

[MickG0105]

Yes, paid in full to Dixon. $4.1m bonus when he ordered them in 2005.
Where specifically is this "$4.1m bonus" referenced?

[GA Driver]

Some of these comments are amazing.

Looks like extra frames are on the horizon as well.

There ain’t no more frames coming. Not in the Boeing variety at least.

[LostontheLOC]

There ain’t no more frames coming. Not in the Boeing variety at least.
We will see how this comment ages.

[PoppaJo]

When someone told you more frames coming, did you ask them what nations flag was on the tail?

D checks will require considerable downtime for many years. Someone else will need to fill the gap, it sure won’t be locals. Won’t want those Asian LCCs taking market share.

[Hollywood1]

Wouldn’t be surprised if some mainline 78’s were borrowed during the downtime due D-checks. Just like how the A330s were borrowed some time ago. Didn’t mainline just increased their orders of 78’s?

[morno]

Wouldn’t be surprised if some mainline 78’s were borrowed during the downtime due D-checks. Just like how the A330s were borrowed some time ago. Didn’t mainline just increased their orders of 78’s?

Given the fact that mainline is short of airframes and it’s restricting wanted growth, I highly doubt they are going to hand over a couple of 787’s to Jetstar for a few years.

[LostontheLOC]

It's clear that's there's not enough of them, so either get rid of them or at least double the fleet! With the 100mil investment it's looking positive.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

....Just like how the A330s were borrowed some time ago....
Think you'll find that "borrowed" is selective memory.
The A330/B787 Qantas/Jetstar shuffle was a result of the inability to get the 787 to JQ on time (read QF stuffing up the order). JQ needed a widebody. Once they had enough, the A330's could come back to QF so they could retire the 767.
JQ had the 787 for 4 years before QF got one. Joyce wouldn't commit whether JQ will get the 321XLR first. Doesn't say much for mainline when all the flash new "game changers" go to JQ first.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Traffic is correct.

The constant chorus of " well informed " detractors have been proved wrong. The 787s are staying at JQ.
The narrative that they were always going back to QF has once and for all been proved to be incorrect as it always was going to be.
Its great news for the 787 crews. End of story.

MCD

[PoppaJo]

The constant chorus of " well informed " detractors have been proved wrong. The 787s are staying at JQ.

MCD

You’re spinning it the wrong way.

What was on the whiteboard in Collingwood in 2019? That’s right, 3 to be sold and a further 2 EOI to the buyer should they want more. The fleet was heading out the door.

2022 onwards the dynamics changed.

Margins soared. That part of group is making green earnings for the first time ever. The decision has now changed to hold them. Great for everyone, but don’t act like the past was unicorns and rainbows.

[a_pilot]

What was on the whiteboard in Collingwood in 2019? That’s right, 3 to be sold and a further 2 EOI to the buyer should they want more. The fleet was heading out the door.


What else was happening in 2019 ?

The EBA was being negotiated and the pilots actually started PIA.

This was nothing but scare tactics but nobody fell for it, apart from maybe you.

[Ollie Onion]

Come on, no one knows what is going on behind closed doors, I would be amazed if anyone in Collingwood had any influence whatsoever in whether the 787s are or were being sold off. Certainly pilots have no influence on it, they are not refurbishing and installing lie flat rest because of Pilot pressure, they are doing it because someone in Qantas has said ‘India’ is an untapped market and the flights will require inflight rest.

[ebt]

Come on, no one knows what is going on behind closed doors, I would be amazed if anyone in Collingwood had any influence whatsoever in whether the 787s are or were being sold off. Certainly pilots have no influence on it, they are not refurbishing and installing lie flat rest because of Pilot pressure, they are doing it because someone in Qantas has said ‘India’ is an untapped market and the flights will require inflight rest.

And let's be honest, things may change considerably between now and when the first frames go in for their refit. The plan back in 2007 was that the -8s were a stopgap until the lower seat-km cost 787-9s come in, and then they were going to replace the A330s over at QF. For a laundry list of reasons, that has changed. Now JQ longhaul must be paying its way, but as Bali, Japan and Korea are likely to become XLR territory (if it can make it), pushing the -8s onto longer routes is not a bad idea, especially if you can tap the large volume, low yield markets like India and the thicker SE Asia routes.

Yes, they should have had crew rest from the start, but these were never intended to hang around as long as they did. So, yeah.

[The The]

they are doing it because someone in Qantas has said ‘India’ is an untapped market and the flights will require inflight rest.

More likely someone in Jetstar said, Qantas have established good returns on Indian market, let's take it.

[PoppaJo]

Come on, no one knows what is going on behind closed doors, I would be amazed if anyone in Collingwood had any influence whatsoever in whether the 787s are or were being sold off.
Correct. It was a decision Gareth made, and signed off by Alan. MS was then sent in to get rid of them. He put 3 on the market.

Gareth wouldn’t be doing that as a scare tactic. Sure, they never made money, drag on the business, but he would actually just do it to p!$$ off the pilots, a form of punishment for striking against him, regardless of cost. That’s the sort of people this group deals with. Same garbage over in the west at the moment.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

You’re spinning it the wrong way.

What was on the whiteboard in Collingwood in 2019? That’s right, 3 to be sold and a further 2 EOI to the buyer should they want more. The fleet was heading out the door.

2022 onwards the dynamics changed.

Margins soared. That part of group is making green earnings for the first time ever. The decision has now changed to hold them. Great for everyone, but don’t act like the past was unicorns and rainbows.

Its nearly 2024 mate. Im not really sure what you are trying to achieve. Refferencing 2019? What ever works for your argument I guess but why the angst?

No one mentioned anything about unicorns and rainbows. No crying bus driver interviews on tv during covid for the JQ 787 crew.

Get some holidays or bid onto a wide body fleet PJ. You obviously need a change from whatever you are doing currently.

MCD

[PoppaJo]

Its nearly 2024 mate. Im not really sure what you are trying to achieve. Refferencing 2019? What ever works for your argument I guess but why the angst?

No one mentioned anything about unicorns and rainbows. No crying bus driver interviews on tv during covid for the JQ 787 crew.

Get some holidays or bid onto a wide body fleet PJ. You obviously need a change from whatever you are doing currently.

MCD
Correct, it’s time to long move on. However those above had a crack at those from 5 years ago, not me, and was simply advising that these people might have been right back then, but they are wrong today. But to simply say these people have always been wrong, and are just out to bitch and moan, every single day, isn’t right. Don’t use a change in market dynamics to throw people under the bus, who now hold an invalid point vs prior. Of course they are all wrong today, and if anyone today carried on that the fleet was going, well they need the head checked.

[a_pilot]

Its nearly 2024 mate. Im not really sure what you are trying to achieve. Refferencing 2019?

Mate, yes, its nearly 2024, but back then so many people mentioned that the Jetstar 787 is dead and gone.

Only now we can see who was right or wrong and I finally get to have my say.

No point arguing with such know it all's back then. Only 5 years later we can see now how their knowledge was so full of 5hit.

[PoppaJo]

Mate, yes, its nearly 2024, but back then so many people mentioned that the Jetstar 787 is dead and gone.

Only now we can see who was right or wrong and I finally get to have my say.

No point arguing with such know it all's back then. Only 5 years later we can see now how their knowledge was so full of 5hit.

Without the global disruption, you would have been wrong, and those others would be right. With it, well you are right, and those others are wrong. With the global disruption, and you now being right, and those others wrong, you now get your podium moment, congratulations. Being right, doesn’t always mean you are that, in this case, you are, thanks to a global event. Are you that person who was part of the 66% who went online and blasted the 34% who apparently got it wrong and told them they are pieces of 5h!t because they got it wrong and you got it right? Behaviour seems similar between these two

Perhaps continue this discussion in 2035 when the replacement fleet arrives, which will be based on market dynamics. I’ll see you back in here a decade, you will be right or wrong, based on what the market is doing at the time, including any last minute shifts.

[hotnhigh]

Perhaps Jetstar could flick some cash to their poor cousins and give the sim centre in Melbourne a bit of a service whilst they are refurbing the 78's? Seems that the 737 and jetstars 78 sims don't like it when the aircon shi$s itself in the building.
It's just a shame Alan and his teamed failed to have the equipment serviced for the last 13 years.

[a_pilot]

Perhaps continue this discussion in 2035

I am not making any predictions about the future.

Yes sure the 787 "could" be gone by then. Not once did I ever say they will be here forever.

​​​​​​​All those who said it will never fly again after covid were wrong is the relevant conversation here.

[SandyPalms]

I am not making any predictions about the future.

Yes sure the 787 "could" be gone by then. Not once did I ever say they will be here forever.

All those who said it will never fly again after covid were wrong is the relevant conversation here.

Most said he A380 would never fly again also.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

All those who said it will never fly again after covid were wrong is the relevant conversation here.
Bad management is the only reason the -8's are still flying. People expected (wrongly) management to know what they were doing. If they had something else, they'd be using them, rather than spending money on them to be able to continue their use.

No IFE in the new upgrades either. They really are bogan busses.

[Big Silver Spoon]

You guys need your head read.

As much as I’d love to see the JQ 787s plying the QF transcont routes with a red tail. The things are mostly chockers and burn a tonne and hour less than a QF330. With almost 100 more punters than a QF -9, if they’re not printing money, JQ management needs to be sent to a reeducation camp in China.

[Transition Layer]

Perhaps Jetstar could flick some cash to their poor cousins and give the sim centre in Melbourne a bit of a service whilst they are refurbing the 78's? Seems that the 737 and jetstars 78 sims don't like it when the aircon shi$s itself in the building.
It's just a shame Alan and his teamed failed to have the equipment serviced for the last 13 years.

The same building that houses the JQ 788 sim? I’m sure JQ pay market rates to lease that space (:yuk:), maybe it’s time hit them with a special levy to contribute towards fixing the cooling systems.

[das Uber Soldat]

No IFE in the new upgrades either. They really are bogan busses.
No IFE is good. Nobody uses those clunky pieces of **** anyway, and it then leaves room for fancy ipad holders (pads being the thing that actually gets used by the pax).

Refurb should be good. Hated crew rest in that stupid seat, could never sleep. The random economy section north of L2 goes in the bin like it should. Should make getting business in staff travel possible now. All good news.