Canberra wants more women in Aviation careers

[AnotherFSO]

From: https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/support-womens-aviation-careers-taking-flight

Support for women's aviation careers taking flight

The Albanese Government is calling on experienced suppliers to help support women’s aviation careers.

The aviation industry has traditionally been dominated by men and we’re working to increase the number of women choosing an aviation career as well as encourage women already in the industry to stay through our $8 million Women in the Aviation Industry Initiative.

The initiative’s recently-released Strategic Action Plan, guiding its work until 2026, identified priority areas for the next stage of leadership and culture, visibility and awareness, and collaboration.

That’s why we’re looking to partner with qualified and experienced suppliers to deliver projects supporting these priority areas.

Leadership and culture projects can include training, resources and tools to promote cultural change, as well as mentoring and professional development.

It can also include research that builds on existing work to understand women’s choices to exit the aviation industry and using this research to support their retention.

Visibility and awareness projects can include education seminars, workshops and aviation events aimed at young girls and students, targeted community outreach initiatives to introduce aviation careers to under-represented groups, media campaigns and guidance materials to raise awareness of an aviation career path.

Collaboration projects can include communities of practice, joint training programs, workshops and networking events, and platforms and websites focused on information sharing where women have been traditionally underrepresented.

My department will hold an information session on the Approach to Market and provide an overview of the Women in the Aviation Industry Initiative Strategic Action Plan.

Please register via [email protected] for further details.

[brokenagain]

Does this include baggage handlers?

[Icarus2001]

We really need to increase the presence of men in the cabin. I call on the government to fund an initiative where we aim for 50% male cabin crew.
Additionally we need more female refuellers, baggage handlers, and engineers.

[morno]

We really need to increase the presence of men in the cabin. I call on the government to fund an initiative where we aim for 50% male cabin crew.
Additionally we need more female refuellers, baggage handlers, and engineers.

Bloody hell Icarus, these days I think they need to incentivise women to become cabin crew! I reckon the numbers are swinging towards having more men at present time :(

[AnotherFSO]

Does this include baggage handlers?

The title I chose for the thread was inadvertently misleading -- a more careful reading of the content suggests that, yes, they're not just looking for pilots but for workers across all aviation-related careers.

Title edited
​​​​​​​Splot

[PoppaJo]

I was recently talking a female Captain who has three daughters in the 20s. Now she tried a bit to get them into the profession, but they wouldn’t have a bar of it. They opted for Construction and Medicine.

The question should be why don’t people be it any gender wish to pursue, in this case, the Flight Deck.

[directsosij]

Soon the problem wont be gender imbalance, it will be skills shortage. Why anybody would consider this industry anymore is beyond me. Long hours, declining conditions and poor treatment. Better to look elsewhere, I wish I had.

[dr dre]

The question should be why don’t people be it any gender wish to pursue, in this case, the Flight Deck.

Whenever a cadet or academy style program opens it generally gets a few thousand applications. I’d say there is no shortage of people wanting to pursue a career in the flight deck when a more structured pathway is available to them.

[Ladloy]

Whenever a cadet or academy style program opens it generally gets a few thousand applications. I’d say there is no shortage of people wanting to pursue a career in the flight deck when a more structured pathway is available to them.
The price is a huge barrier. Just look at Rex. 9 year bond, $150k loan to be paid over that time.

[PoppaJo]

Most pathways are financially challenging. If you self fund over xx years, you are faced with the prospect of minimum wage for many years after getting the first job, extremely unattractive for many, many self funding do borrow the cash also. If you cadet it, you have the debt over your head while earning minimum wage. Most pathways have debt hanging over you.

You don’t need to enter this Industry at 20 either. Nothing wrong with using your 20s in building wealth in an alternate career, buy property, self fund a CPL over xx many years, then perhaps at 30 enter the industry. Age and Life experience will be on your side, you might have a house and thousands in the bank also. My nephew considered aviation at 18. Said he was going to do it. He went into trade instead, and earnt $1m in his 20s. Has zero interest in taking up this industry now.

[AnotherFSO]

The title I chose for the thread was inadvertently misleading -- a more careful reading of the content suggests that, yes, they're not just looking for pilots but for workers across all aviation-related careers.

Title edited
​​​​​​​Splot

Thank you, Splot.

[Led Zep]

...also include research that builds on existing work to understand women’s choices to exit the aviation industry and using this research to support their retention.


Probably the same reason men are exiting the industry.

It's family and lifestyle unfriendly, and all* aviation jobs are woefully compensated with zero benefits and many job pathways have a high cost of entry.

I've just saved the tax payer millions.

*Unless you hold multiple board positions.

[DeltaT]

From a psychological vocation point of view women are more interested in people and men are more interested in things. Hence nurses mainly female and o I don't know, pilots being mainly male. Forcing equal outcomes as opposed to equal opportunity is not the way to go.

A quick google showed this
What percentage of women will have children?
Among currently married women aged 15–49, 81.2% had ever had a child, higher than the percentage for currently cohabiting women, at 59.9%; both were higher than the 22.1% of never married, not cohabiting women who had ever had a child. A similar pattern by marital or cohabiting status was seen for men.

So dare I say it and point out, in the end the airline costs are going to go up for the retraining of female pilots when they come back from maternity leave or opt out of the profession for good to stay home with the kids.

[unobtanium]

women's quit aviation because there pay is not enough to justify the shiftwork and lifestyle so many go to office jobs rather then fly or do shift work out in the weather and the real tough women who work baggage handling hate these inititive's because they done the hard work the,selves no need for cottenwool female recruitment program's

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Maybe the government should incentivise both male and female alike by not allowing their mates in airline management to fvck the incumbent pilot cohort.

[morno]

women's quit aviation because there pay is not enough to justify the shiftwork and lifestyle so many go to office jobs rather then fly or do shift work out in the weather and the real tough women who work baggage handling hate these inititive's because they done the hard work the,selves no need for cottenwool female recruitment program's

Sorry, I can’t read that because there’s no grammar or punctuation :ugh:

[Pinky the pilot]

Sorry, I can’t read that because there’s no grammar or punctuation

And what 'punctuation' is there, makes no sense either.

[Troo believer]

Ask the ADF.
Return of service obligation as a pilot if you’re male is 10 years
Female 6 years
work that out.
active discrimination yet they still can’t get women to join.
Flying isn’t a career path most women want to pursue. Health sciences is definitely a preferred path for women which I applaud.

[Car RAMROD]

Here’s an eager one already! :}

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/woman-arrested-after-running-onto-tarmac-and-under-plane-at-canberra-airport/news-story/4621fdc67ae2a2ea0ae31e04de98c20d

[kingRB]

Canberra wanted more women in aviation - well the women answered

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/924x896/snipcbr_26a45e0e4a5c93197e3ed6e36a5ca874ff2be3ac.jpg

[Eutychus]

Here’s an eager one already! :}

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/woman-arrested-after-running-onto-tarmac-and-under-plane-at-canberra-airport/news-story/4621fdc67ae2a2ea0ae31e04de98c20d

Came here for this, leaving satisfied!

[maggot]

Does this include baggage handlers?

Well it seems to be, there's a notable uptick of ladies on the ramp, chucking bags and fuelling.
We've always had a few on the spanners.

[TimmyTee]

The waste collectors are still exclusively men

[Troo believer]

What about ATC? They can talk all day and tell men what to do.
Just a joke ladies.

[airdualbleedfault]

The way we're going. there will be nobody left in the kitchens :}

[das Uber Soldat]

Rather odd I never seem to see these programs for brick layers, taxi drivers and the like. :ugh:

[PPRuNeUser0201]

I have to say that I think it’s a good thing to have programs like this. There are so many girls who’ve not even considered aviation as a career because 1) they don’t know about it or 2) they see it being so male dominated that they are worried they’ll be not accepted. This basically means there is about 50% of the population to tap into for employment meaning we can have enough Australian staff without seeking them from overseas.

Whilst I know this forum is mostly an anonymous gabfest, do take a look at the comments on this post thus far and think about whether if you were a girl wanting to join the industry and doing some research, do you think these comments would encourage or discourage them?

[Icarus2001]

There are so many girls who’ve not even considered aviation as a career because 1) they don’t know about it or

Really? Women don’t know there are two pilots up the front of a passenger jet?
That is up there with the ridiculous statement “ you can’t be it if you can’t see it”.

There are no additional barriers to women entering aviation than men. Equal opportunity exists already. Why should we expect a 50% ratio?

[PPRuNeUser0201]

Really? Women don’t know there are two pilots up the front of a passenger jet?
That is up there with the ridiculous statement “ you can’t be it if you can’t see it”.

There are no additional barriers to women entering aviation than men. Equal opportunity exists already. Why should we expect a 50% ratio?

and there you have it folks….took all of about two seconds to incite the rage….. perhaps this relates to my second point as to why woman don’t want to work in aviation?

what about that woman/girls who’ve never been on an aircraft to hear one of those rare things known as a female pilot? Tell me, how do they know?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

what about that woman/girls who’ve never been on an aircraft to hear one of those rare things known as a female pilot? Tell me, how do they know?
They know because they are females born in the last 20 years. They've heard nothing but people telling them they can do or be whatever they want to do or be. Perhaps they just don't want to do or be some things.

[morno]

and there you have it folks….took all of about two seconds to incite the rage….. perhaps this relates to my second point as to why woman don’t want to work in aviation?

what about that woman/girls who’ve never been on an aircraft to hear one of those rare things known as a female pilot? Tell me, how do they know?

When I was a teenager, I looked up at aircraft in the sky and thought to myself “I’d love to fly one of those”. I didn’t think “there’s definitely a man flying that”.

So why do you think a girl isn’t looking up thinking the same thing about wanting to fly it? The world is so full of information these days that is virtually impossible to not be able to find the relevant information about a potential career.

I think it’s all a crock. There’s many good females in aviation, maybe the reason there isn’t a 50/50 split is because 50% of females aren’t interested in flying?

[Icarus2001]

and there you have it folks….took all of about two seconds to incite the rage….. perhaps this relates to my second point as to why woman don’t want to work in aviation?

Can you show me where my language exposed "rage"?

I fly with plenty of women pilots and not one I have asked is in favour of quotas. Almost all of them NEVER play the female card, they just get on with the job.

[redsnail]

I have done a few school careers days in the past 10 years. The number of teenage females who did not know piloting was available to them was startling. They honestly think that they can't do it.
It's not the hours etc, after all, cabin crew do fairly similar hours etc and there's no shortage of ladies wanting to be cabin crew.
Retraining a female pilot after she's returned from maternity leave is no more expensive than retraining a male pilot post heart attack/cancer/significant injury.
To this day, refuellers etc still ask to see the captain when I am standing right in front of them. No point in asking the male cabin crew, he doesn't know how the fuel panel works.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Retraining a female pilot after she's returned from maternity leave is no more expensive than retraining a male pilot post heart attack/cancer/significant injury.
You have to retrain all pilots returning from heart attack/cancer/significant injury, and I'd hazard that those absences from work haven't been by choice, but there's only some you have to retrain after maternity leave.

[Mr Mossberg]

Retraining a female pilot after she's returned from maternity leave is no more expensive than retraining a male pilot post heart attack/cancer/significant injury.

What a dumb comment. Like, really dumb.

So you're saying that women don't have heart attacks? Do men have 3 or 4 heart attacks that they have to be re-trained after? If you're trying to whinge about the percentage of female pilots it'd pay to come up with rational arguments.

[dr dre]

What a dumb comment. Like, really dumb.

So you're saying that women don't have heart attacks? Do men have 3 or 4 heart attacks that they have to be re-trained after? If you're trying to whinge about the percentage of female pilots it'd pay to come up with rational arguments.

I was told (unofficially) that they had compared the rate of female pilots taking time off work with maternity leave and sick leave vs male pilots taking time off with sick leave and surprisingly the male pilot cohort were off work longer. The theory being younger male pilots are more likely to undertake extreme or contact sports which cause long term injury, and older men have higher rates of chronic illness than women.

It’s a moot point anyway as it’s illegal to discriminate in employment based on maternity status.

[dr dre]

I fly with plenty of women pilots and not one I have asked is in favour of quotas.

Who mentioned quotas? The original post about the government grant had nothing to do with the often spoken about but rarely seen “quota”. It spoke about education seminars, workshops, events, career materials etc.

[redsnail]

Of course you need to retrain all pilots post illness/injury. The common trope re female pilots is that we cost a fortune to retrain post pregnancy. That is a big assumption that all women want to have babies. Here's a kicker. We don't. Yes, women get cancer and have heart attacks. I didn't say we didn't.
Dumb statement? How many men have been asked "are you going to have children?" at a job interview? Yep, illegal question. However, I was asked this question 3 times in one job interview for a Qantas regional back in mid 1999.

Fortunately the percentage of females learning to fly in the UK has begun to increase which is great news for flying schools. To be honest, the flying schools need all the competent students they can get. The number of competent people learning to fly is quite low, especially compared to the 1980s. It's so dire in the UK some airlines (British Airways) have even opened up funded cadet schemes.

Any campaign that attracts a wider audience is a good thing. So long as it's not at the expense of competency. I don't condone lowering the bar or having quotas. Shining a light on a previously unknown career option is useful - for every one.

[Mr Mossberg]

I'm in the 'it takes a village' camp. Only women can bear children, so women have different needs as far as time away from the workplace goes. So if you're in business, plan and allocate accordingly. It's a cost that society needs to bear. If you want more young taxpayers to support your boomer retirement, then you're gunna have to pay. In this case, if airfares have to go up $0.73 to cover, then so be it. Couldn't give a hoot if the pilot population is 50/50 and all of them want children. If that's the case it will actually create more pilot jobs.

Comparing it however to men having heart attacks :rolleyes:

[Lookleft]

There are plenty of woman in aviation but they are usually on the other end of the microphone. The biggest problem with being a pilot in the current age is the rostering and its family unfriendly expectations. I have flown with female pilots who really struggle with the demands of the roster once they have children. I have also flown with plenty of male F/O's who find the rostering difficult but it is rarely to the point that they consider giving flying away. ATC however doesn't seem to have quite the same problems. If the government and the airlines want to attract more females then they have to make the "work-life balance" statements actually mean something. Getting rid of some of the HR pilot haters would be a good start.

[neville_nobody]

The biggest problem with being a pilot in the current age is the rostering and its family unfriendly expectations


Meanwhile most other jobs have done the opposite with flex hours and work from home flying just seems to be getting worse. I 100% agree the biggest issue for females in the industry is rostering but the next issue that creates is do we actively discriminate against the rest of the pilot cohort to accomodate women with kids?

[framer]

It's not the hours etc, after all, cabin crew do fairly similar hours etc and there's no shortage of ladies wanting to be cabin crew.
I’m not sure it’s that cut and dried. My thinking is that Claudia Goldin’s Nobel prize winning work on the gender pay gap has moved us a long way towards understanding what is going on and has identified ‘temporal flexibility’ as the primary driver in why women, on average, earn less than men over time.
Basically that women are more likely to decide to do a job ( either within a career/ profession or an actual profession itself) that gives them the ability to have some sort of flexibility or control over time. The example she gave in an interview I listened to was that two identical law graduates, one male one female both start out at a prestigious firm, both in mergers and acquisitions, they’re required to be working any time 24/7, 2am Sunday the client needs you? You’re there.Go to Tokyo with four hours notice? You bet. Tough job but massive money in return. By the time both lawyers are 35 it is more likely that the female will have chosen a corporate role with a big company working more reliable hours with less travel than the male. When the pay data is crunched both lawyers fall in the same category, both graduated near the top of their class, both work full time, one earns $850k and the other $350k.
The reasons for women valuing ‘temporal flexibility’ more than males are a whole different subject and I know little about it, but the fact that they do is pretty well established from what I’ve read.
There is no scientific doubt that the sexes are very different physiologically, and then we obviously have social influences that have different results when applied to different people. Personally I think that encouragement is healthy but I would draw a line short of quotas. I’m not aware of any quotas in Australia though, can anyone give an example of one?
Aiming for 50/50 seems foolish to me but aiming to encourage women to enter aviation and having a stated goal of making the workplace an attractive place for them to be seems very sensible and I think everyone would benefit.
​​​​​​​The biggest problem with being a pilot in the current age is the rostering and its family unfriendly expectations.
I agree 100% and it’s to everyone’s benefit if we can move to a position where the shift work and travel is recognised as a cost to the employees family ( regardless of sex) and managed accordingly.

[The Love Doctor]

Why the hell does it matter about having 50-50 male/female ratio? Best person for any job should be the sole decider in any employment opportunity. You don't fly planes/lift bags/make coffee with your genitals.

If I ever have to select a heart surgeon/lawyer to stop me going to prison etc I'm sure as hell I won't be selecting them based upon diversity quotas. I'll be selecting the best one for the job. I don't care if they male/female/trans/gay/straight/black/white/green.....

[Icarus2001]

Who mentioned quotas? I did. If the government is trying to encourage more women in to aviation roles it assumes that something is wrong with the current numbers. There is not. Any woman who wants a job in aviation can apply and skill up just like a man.
The assumption that something is WRONG with the gender mix in an industry precedes the call for quotas. Same path at different stages.

[Surreal]

Thanks for sharing this - I am interested in being involved.

Meanwhile, toxic males will have a sook....

[Surreal]

Any woman who wants a job in aviation can apply and skill up just like a man.
The assumption that something is WRONG with the gender mix in an industry precedes the call for quotas. Same path at different stages.


What would you know about the experience of women in aviation?

[Icarus2001]

Men and women talk you know. I am married to a woman pilot. I have many female aviation colleagues and friends. Does that qualify me to have an opinion?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Meanwhile, toxic males will have a sook
As opposed to toxic females?

[Mr Mossberg]

I'm mixing in a group at the moment, there is one moaning (toxic) female whinging about not being considered for a particular job "because she's female", despite flying some equipment that most of the other pilots in the room would love the opportunity to fly. The pilots in the room rolling their eyes most at this whinger are the other female pilots.

[framer]

I 100% agree the biggest issue for females in the industry is rostering but the next issue that creates is do we actively discriminate against the rest of the pilot cohort to accomodate women with kids?
I don’t think so. I think we simply increase the options available to all pilots. I think we should move towards having four or five different lifestyle options available to all pilots in a company, and they can move freely between those options within reason. Eg you could opt for the 100% roster, or the 80% or 70% or 50% and after three years you can swap to whatever other one you want, or stay put. The pay doesn’t have to be exactly pro-rated either, the 70% roster could be 67% of full time pay to cover training costs etc. but it’s up to the pilot if they want to sacrifice that money for time free of duty. You would end up with all the young pilots and old pilots working hard and most with young children reducing their hours to contribute more to the household.
Yes it would cost more on paper than the current set up because you would have to carry a few extra pilots in case your forecast of who wanted what was out, but you would have more females and males keen to work for you, less sick leave, less leaving for overseas, less fatigue, and more satisfied staff. I t(ink it’s just going to be a cost of doing business. The cost is actually already there but it’s just paid by the pilots and their families not the company.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Yes it would cost more.....
The cost is actually already there but it’s just paid by the pilots and their families not the company.
Two reasons an industry with such slim margins as aviation will never change.

[framer]

What are the two reasons?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Yes it would cost more.....
The cost is actually already there but it’s just paid by the pilots and their families not the company.
This in an industry that exists by cutting costs to remain competitive.

[framer]

Ahhh I understand now. Sorry, my mistake, I probably didn’t explain what I meant very well.
As I’m sure you’re aware there are many costs to being an Airline pilot other than the cost of becoming qualified and maintaining a medical etc.
Some examples being
a) you have to work on many public holidays
b) your partner and family get annoyed that the family can’t commit to bbq’s, weekends away, dinner parties, hiking trips etc etc because your roster isn’t out yet.
c) The family has to creep around the house when you need to be asleep at odd times
d) You can’t coach your child’s football team because you won’t be in town on Thursday evenings
e) You are grumpy because it’s 9:30pm and you’re still awake and your alarm is set to 3:15 am when 36 hours ago you were going to sleep at 2am
f) you start to forget things like your neighbours name when you are only 55 years old because of three decades of sleep disruption
g) You miss Christmas Day, Australia Day celebrations, Easter and your kids birthday every second year
h) you can’t plan a three week holiday to Europe in thirteen months time because you have zero idea what annual leave will be available to you
Historically these costs have always been borne by the pilot and his or her family in exchange for a very handsome salary. In 2023 the salary is no longer particularly handsome when compared to the plumber who lives two doors down, coaches the kids footy team, goes to bed at 10pm every night and takes two weeks off every Christmas, and as such pilots are no longer feeling adequately compensated for the costs borne by their families.
There are two ways to ensure an adequate supply of pilots continues to be available to Airlines;
1/ Increase the salary to the level that makes pilots feel like it is worth it
2/ Keep salaries similar to what they are now but facilitate rosters that are more family friendly.
Option 2 probably costs a similar amount as increasing salaries but it makes the career more attractive to people who value ‘temporal flexibility’, regardless of their sex. It just so happens that women, on average, place a higher value on temporal flexibility.
It is a paradigm shift that Airline executives have to make in the coming decade and if they are slower than the competition to make that shift, they will find themselves constrained in their ability to maintain market share.

[Clare Prop]

I've been 35 years a professional pilot, inspired by Neil Armstrong, never had any barriers in my way other than money. If someone wants to be a pilot, they can be a pilot.
In 32 years instructing, only a handful of women are interested in learning to fly and only a tiny minority of those actually finish. Most of them just aren't interested enough to see it through. It is what it is.
Those of us who are keen enough to make a career out of it don't need a leg up from a paternalistic minister and people looking at all of us as if we are tokens.

This looks to me like the *cough* "qualified and experienced suppliers" ie the ones on the vet loan gravy train, looking for the so generous govenrment to find more people to sign up. Not enough women crippled with student loans yet, obviously.

Maybe the students already qualified should secure a job before they are allowed to sign up another one?

I'd like to see some stats on how many start at the integrated schools, male and female, how many finish, how many find a job within three months of qualifying.

Oh wait...anyone can say they are a woman now. Are they actually allowed to specify a binary identity? Surely someone somewhere is offended?

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Ahhh I understand now. Sorry, my mistake, I probably didn’t explain what I meant very well.
As I’m sure you’re aware there are many costs to being an Airline pilot other than the cost of becoming qualified and maintaining a medical etc.
Some examples being
a) you have to work on many public holidays
b) your partner and family get annoyed that the family can’t commit to bbq’s, weekends away, dinner parties, hiking trips etc etc because your roster isn’t out yet.
c) The family has to creep around the house when you need to be asleep at odd times
d) You can’t coach your child’s football team because you won’t be in town on Thursday evenings
e) You are grumpy because it’s 9:30pm and you’re still awake and your alarm is set to 3:15 am when 36 hours ago you were going to sleep at 2am
f) you start to forget things like your neighbours name when you are only 55 years old because of three decades of sleep disruption
g) You miss Christmas Day, Australia Day celebrations, Easter and your kids birthday every second year
h) you can’t plan a three week holiday to Europe in thirteen months time because you have zero idea what annual leave will be available to you
To be honest, almost all of those "costs" are experienced by workers in myriad 24/7 industries, and many don't paid anywhere near what an airline pilot gets paid. You think the cleaner walking in beside you from the staff car park on Christmas Day is on 6 figures a year? If you want to have a normal life, then you can't work an abnormal job. It's still a pretty handsome salary in the great scheme of things (considering that plumber down the road is probably doing at least 50-60hr weeks) Whether it's worth it or not is a decision only you can make. There's always option B.

[mikewil]

To be honest, almost all of those "costs" are experienced by workers in myriad 24/7 industries, and many don't paid anywhere near what an airline pilot gets paid. You think the cleaner walking in beside you from the staff car park on Christmas Day is on 6 figures a year? If you want to have a normal life, then you can't work an abnormal job. It's still a pretty handsome salary in the great scheme of things (considering that plumber down the road is probably doing at least 50-60hr weeks) Whether it's worth it or not is a decision only you can make. There's always option B.

The cleaner in the staff car park didn't sacrifice an immense amount of money to get to where they are, only to make barely more than minimum wage for 10 years (possibly moving to less than desirable locations/sacrificing friendship and family opportunities in the process) before finally 'making it' before their career of choice started to pay off, only now that it will no longer actually pay off it would seem.

I think it will likely be a career that for many will start off with the common attitude of "I'm not doing this for the money" but then when the reality of the job starts to set in in their late 30s/early 40s, many will just exit the industry only for the next lot to come up the line in the same process.

At the moment the ones who are able to have the freedom to make such choices are those with rich parents. A topic for another thread but I wonder how many of the large number of Rex cadets (making around the same as a Mcdonalds manager) are only able to support themselves with outside assistance. There also seem to be a particularly large number who manage to shell out the large fee to break their 7 year bond, I also don't think this would be possible if their only income stream was their S340 first officer wage.

The industry will be dependent on those who are already swimming in money in their formative years, but will move on when the "I'm not in it for the money" attitude is no longer cutting the mustard.

[missy]

To be honest, almost all of those "costs" are experienced by workers in myriad 24/7 industries, and many don't paid anywhere near what an airline pilot gets paid. You think the cleaner walking in beside you from the staff car park on Christmas Day is on 6 figures a year? If you want to have a normal life, then you can't work an abnormal job. It's still a pretty handsome salary in the great scheme of things (considering that plumber down the road is probably doing at least 50-60hr weeks) Whether it's worth it or not is a decision only you can make. There's always option B.
Option B = Air Traffic Control, they are recruiting at the moment.

[10JQKA]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/former-colleague-of-erin-patterson-says-she-was-abrasive-and-eccentric-while-working-as-air-traffic-controller/news-story/c46976b1c97487d18bbe32f521f54f25

[framer]

To be honest, almost all of those "costs" are experienced by workers in myriad 24/7 industries, and many don't paid anywhere near what an airline pilot gets paid.Yes why is that? I’m sure Joyce and Hudson and Goyder have been trying to get pilots salaries as close to the cleaners as possible, why is it so hard for them to succeed in their goal? One reason is that when the cleaner leaves because the remuneration is not enough to compensate them for the shift work, the employer can replace them very quickly and cheaply. ( Six months is normal from joining date to operating a revenue flight for a new pilot, prior to that they are costing money). Another reason is that the cleaners presumably have less options available to them when it comes to career paths, ie the employer doesn’t have to pay a higher salary to attract enough workers to the role because the barriers to entry are lower, there is greater supply of candidates for the role. The ability to reach into the supply pool and pluck out another employee, plonk them into the role and forget about them until they resign is not there with pilots to the same extent as with a cleaner. If you look at cabin crew they lie somewhere in the middle. You can take someone off the street and put them through a moderately cheap training program over a period of weeks and have them as productive cabin crew. If it took six months and cost $250k to train a new cabin crew member then the companies would have to work harder to retain their services ( ie pay more).
​​​​​​​You think the cleaner walking in beside you from the staff car park on Christmas Day is on 6 figures a year? No. For obvious reasons.
​​​​​​​If you want to have a normal life, then you can't work an abnormal job. True.
What I am trying to get across is that the elements of the pilot role that make it an ‘abnormal job’ need or either be compensated handsomely through high salaries when compared to the median salary, or, the abnormal elements themselves need to be reduced.
The relationship between the pilots salary and the nations median salary has been reducing and as such pilots feel less ‘well off’.
​​​​​​​Whether it's worth it or not is a decision only you can make. There's always option B.
I agree 100%.
The number of people willing to choose option B is a concern to Airline executives world wide. Newspapers and magazines are discussing it, boardrooms are discussing it, Chinese and US Airlines are throwing money at it. It is a thing.
Like I said earlier, there is an advantage to both Airline executives and pilots in attacking the problem from the lifestyle end rather than boosting salaries like they have in the US. The advantage for Airlines is that a giant untapped pool of candidates would be more interested in the career path ( any people who value temporal flexibility). The advantage for all pilots is temporal flexibility ( ie more time to meet family commitments, travel, pursue hobbies etc).
Thanks for the discussion, I’m enjoying thinking about this topic. I feel optimistic that the pressure on Airlines to retain pilots combined with AI powered rostering will make Airline flying great again.

[lucille]

Used to love my job when it was mainly daytime flying and paying peanuts. I was poor and happy as were all my peers.. And then unrelentingly I kept chasing greener pastures all over the world.. newer, faster, shinier and more $$$. The greener the pasture, the unhappier I became. I suspect I’m not Robinson Crusoe.

Is there such a thing as the “perfect” career?

[ScepticalOptomist]

Used to love my job when it was mainly daytime flying and paying peanuts. I was poor and happy as were all my peers.. And then unrelentingly I kept chasing greener pastures all over the world.. newer, faster, shinier and more $$$. The greener the pasture, the unhappier I became. I suspect I’m not Robinson Crusoe.

Is there such a thing as the “perfect” career?

Perhaps getting older has changed our perspectives? Now as long as we have “enough” money, the more important “time with loved ones” becomes WAY more important.

I’ll leave the chasing of shiny new things to those that haven’t figured that out yet.

[601]

and older men have higher rates of chronic illness than women.


Is that a fact?

[megan]

and older men have higher rates of chronic illness than womenTell that to my five year younger spouse and don't be surprised if she laughs in your face.Is there such a thing as the “perfect” careerCame as close as possible, home every night, excellent equipment, good pay and conditions, still had the roster thing but you got the days off you asked for, very rarely denied, Xmas and such were shared equitably. But professionally you had to hang your ass out.

[framer]

But professionally you had to hang your ass out.
lol love that statement. Sounds like you knew exactly which side your bread was buttered on. Any chance of finding out which company and which decades?
​​​​​​​Thanks for the laugh.

[tonytales]

Much of this regards the piloting profession.

Try being a mechanic. In the US, three years of attending an approved school, and you get your licenses. You look for a job. Happy days, Biggie Airlines is hiring. You join up, become a union member and – find out what seniority means. It means you end on Midnight Shift, Tuesday and Wednesday off. You get set for a vacation – Seniority Uber Alles – hope you like your October vacation because seniors (time with company) get first picks. Did I mention working outdoors in al weather?

An established station with its long-time mechanics means 10 to 12 years to make Swing Shift (afternoons) and you are still low on the vacation pick.

At one station I managed (later in my career), the junior person on Day Shift had 18 years of seniority. And Tuesday and Wednesday off. Of course, you might go to the Main Base and work inside a hangar. Unless you get bumped in a layoff and, having enough seniority, bump another mechanic at a distant station.

Yes, I did put in 12 years climbing ladders, twisting safety wire and tasting glycol while deicing before I got a job in training. Promotions followed but try being maintenance Manager at a line station where you are really on 24/7 duty and have to take responsibility to the VP for the acts of your worst employee.

Oh, and mechanic’s pay. Not substantially above a cleaner of baggage handlers who do work hard, BUT, do not have the responsibility of signing Airworthiness Releases. The FAA (USA) pays a lot more attention to your work than to those other folks. I have my FAA Charles Taylor Award for 53 years in maintenance without a black mark. It was an interesting career but how many could put up with those Christmas Days when I had to go to work?

[Clare Prop]

Try being a dairy farmer...four years at ag college, then 24/7/365 in all weathers. Christmas? Holidays? huh?
Interesting thing though, when I was at ag college in the 80s there was a ratio of about 10:1 boys to girls. Now I am doing another ag degree the ratio is about 1:30.
So women may not want to be pilots, but they are the vast majority of the people studying to be vets and farmers.

[missy]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/former-colleague-of-erin-patterson-says-she-was-abrasive-and-eccentric-while-working-as-air-traffic-controller/news-story/c46976b1c97487d18bbe32f521f54f25

In a statement to the Herald Sun a spokesperson from Airservices Australia spokesperson said: “Erin Scutter was employed by Airservices Australia as an air traffic controller from 12 February 2001 until 28 November 2002.”

Very surprised that an AsA spokesperson would release such information. I would've expected a simple "no comment".

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

The cleaner in the staff car park didn't sacrifice an immense amount of money to get to where they are...
But as is oft pointed out, no one held a gun to your head.
The relationship between the pilots salary and the nations median salary has been reducing and as such pilots feel less ‘well off’.
And that's just going to be a "boo hoo" moment as far as anyone outside the industry (and probably many within it) is concerned.
No matter what you think you are worth, you are only worth what someone else is willing to pay. Right now, they don't think you are worth as much as you do.
Ultimately, you are still being recompensed for those "costs" to a greater degree than most who also bear them. Paying you how much more makes it ok to not be able to coach your kid's footy team, or miss birthdays?

[Ladloy]

But as is oft pointed out, no one held a gun to your head.

And that's just going to be a "boo hoo" moment as far as anyone outside the industry (and probably many within it) is concerned.
No matter what you think you are worth, you are only worth what someone else is willing to pay. Right now, they don't think you are worth as much as you do.
Ultimately, you are still being recompensed for those "costs" to a greater degree than most who also bear them. Paying you how much more makes it ok to not be able to coach your kid's footy team, or miss birthdays?
It will be a boo hoo moment for the general public as the pilot pool dries up and airlines struggle into the future.

[framer]

No matter what you think you are worth, you are only worth what someone else is willing to pay. Right now, they don't think you are worth as much as you do. I agree.
I’m not disagreeing with the concept of basic market forces though. What I am saying is that Airline executives and aircraft manufacturers are concerned that there will be difficulty continuing with the current levels of flying into the medium term future if we don’t retain our current pilot workforce and continue to train pilots at the same rate or faster than we have historically. They are aware that very little training went on during the pandemic and post pandemic the numbers of pilots training hasn’t bounced back as quick s air travel itself. Pilots are becoming less inclined to remain in the industry as the salaries on offer effectively get lower and lower ( buying power reducing with inflation and raises not keeping up with the neighbours). All I am saying is that a solution to the problem the executives are facing doesn’t just have to be increasing salaries like is happening in the USA, a solution can involve reducing the cost to the pilots that the Airline lifestyle imposes on them. ie temporal flexibility. The added bonus for the executives is that it will make the career much more attractive to approximately 50% of the population thus addressing their concerns about numbers of candidates.
​​​​​​​Ultimately, you are still being recompensed for those "costs" to a greater degree than most who also bear them.
There is no sense in comparing the costs, risks, investments and responsibilities of pilots to other professions when discussing the future of pilots contracts. The only motivation for that is emotional. Nobody outside of China or North Korea would compare the compensation of a construction site foreman with the cleaner so why would we be doing that here? Pilots contracts have a different balance of these things than other professions and will therefore have different reimbursement levels. My position is that the Airline executives can ensure enough pilots into the future one of three ways, 1/ increasing salaries massively 2/ Improving lifestyle, or 3/ a combination of 1 & 2.
​​​​​​​Paying you how much more makes it ok to not be able to coach your kid's footy team, or miss birthdays?
Approximately 30% more. Otherwise I will sell an asset I was planning on holding well into my retirement and retire early and leave a bit less to my children. Many others at my stage are thinking along similar lines:)

[The Love Doctor]

An interesting paradox with gender quotas has started rearing its head :
A lot of males who have once had a possible interest in a flying/pilot career (and males traditionally have more of an interest in flying than females) are deciding against it now as it is being heavily promoted as "woman's career" now by airlines in Australia.

Females generally aren't really interested in a flying career anyways and prefer to choose more lucrative paying careers after finding out how little pilots generally earn (compared to other professional careers) and hearing about airline managements poor treatment of pilots.

I discovered this after having a good talk to some of my kids friends (university aged). Both my kids have zero interest in a flying career.

Just an observation

[megan]

lol love that statement. Sounds like you knew exactly which side your bread was buttered on. Any chance of finding out which company and which decades?
​​​​​​​Thanks for the laugh38° 13' 12" S 147° 10' 05" E last three decades of the last century

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

reducing the cost to the pilots that the Airline lifestyle imposes on them. ie temporal flexibility.
It's not that easy to offer temporal flexibility in a job situation where someone is expected and required to show up at a time and a place and do it, and if they don't someone else has to, otherwise there is a loss for the business. It's not like you can flex off, leave the desk vacant while you work from home, or leave everything and catch up tomorrow, and productivity doesn't suffer. If you want lifestyle flexibility in a 24/7 operational environment with a minimum staffing requirement, you need excess staff to ensure that there is always someone available to cover the flexibility provided to the group as a whole. Excess expensive staff sitting idle in case they are needed is a massive cost. Rather than pay 100% to someone to be the just in case, it's cheaper on paper to pay you the 30% and have you turn up when you are supposed to. At the moment they don't have to though, because they are finding there's always ways to find someone who'll accept say 80% of your wage to do the same job.

[Clare Prop]

An interesting paradox with gender quotas has started rearing its head :
A lot of males who have once had a possible interest in a flying/pilot career (and males traditionally have more of an interest in flying than females) are deciding against it now as it is being heavily promoted as "woman's career" now by airlines in Australia.

Females generally aren't really interested in a flying career anyways and prefer to choose more lucrative paying careers after finding out how little pilots generally earn (compared to other professional careers) and hearing about airline managements poor treatment of pilots.

I discovered this after having a good talk to some of my kids friends (university aged). Both my kids have zero interest in a flying career.

Just an observation
I'm doing some university study and have observed how about 90% of the students - and professors - on the agricultural and vet courses are women. When I studied in the 80s it was the other way round. I wonder if these careers are now seen as "women's work" now that technology has replaced a lot (but not all) of the need for physcial strength? It shows that proportions can change, but I wonder how most of those girls who are no doubt very brainy but look like a puff of wind would blow them away, are going to be able to do some of the stock tasks that are required?

[Annie_cherokee]

Simply…. It’s not user friendly… it is an industry built solely on a full time dream. Sure.. the financial aspect affects both sexes, but at the end of the day, the girls have got the goods, and as yet, science is yet to figure out a way that we can palm off the baby baking to boyz..😜Women do want to fly, but the industry with all of its expirations on ratings, endorsements, and knowledge, means that it becomes a case of one or the other…circum to the pesky tick tock, or dream big…the careers councilor never stands up and says… now ladies… one day you may have to sit down and decide whether you want a kid, or you want 4 gold bars…Out of all of the women that hold a licence… I’d be very interested to see stats as to why they didn’t pursue a career as a commercial pilot. Oh.. P.S…
im sure this is a dilemma that faces women in many professions where being at the top of your field takes many years dedicated entirely to your craft..

[flyingkea]

This thread reminds me of that old joke about why are women paid less than men?
A: Because of the jobs they keep choosing! Female doctor, female computer engineer, female pilot etc...


My kids are old enough to be in school, yet my career is still being stalled. I have been told, to my face, that a particular company was not going to hire me because I had a kid. Who at the time was over a year old. Yet they had absolutely no qualms hiring my partner, when said kid was less than a month old. This was for a flying job where so long as you got the work done, you could basically set your own hours. (Instructing at a big school.) I managed to get an instructing gig when my second was 5 months old, and was told they would only consider full time, but would do 9-5 rostering. They lied. A lot of aviation is outside of daycare/oshc hours, so one of us had to make it work - pretty much always me. While family friendly work is difficult to find in aviation, it does exist, but you gotta operate with good faith.

Net result - my career is a good 8/9 years behind my partners, and honestly? It didn't need to be.

I'll not go into my current employment issues, as it's ongoing, but let's just say it is ultra ****ty atm, and I'm at the point where I just keep banging my head against the wall. How many times do I need to be screwed over before it gets too much? All I want is a fair go, and I'm not even getting that at the moment.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Net result - my career is a good 8/9 years behind my partners, and honestly? It didn't need to be.
So if you had split the outside daycare hours (and other job interfering duties) equally, would the result have been 2 pilots who were unable to turn up as and when required, vs only one? Are you equally qualified? Could you fill in for each other, so it didn't matter who turned up for the job? Or does one hold qualifications such that they are the one who has to turn up? I would imagine that if your partner had not been able to take certain jobs etc, due to 50/50 child care split, then the net result would be 2 of you 4-5 years behind everyone else...or both not working as pilots.

[flyingkea]

So if you had split the outside daycare hours (and other job interfering duties) equally, would the result have been 2 pilots who were unable to turn up as and when required, vs only one? Are you equally qualified? Could you fill in for each other, so it didn't matter who turned up for the job? Or does one hold qualifications such that they are the one who has to turn up? I would imagine that if your partner had not been able to take certain jobs etc, due to 50/50 child care split, then the net result would be 2 of you 4-5 years behind everyone else...or both not working as pilots.

When we got together we were equally qualified - if anything I had slightly more flight experience.
But then I went on maternity leave, and he got a new job that start 1 month after bubs was born. I was happy to take a year off, and I wouldn't be complaining if I was slightly behind - but the issue was, it *just*kept*compounding.* Especially since I had companies explicitly state I had not been hired because I had a kid. So while I was unable to get work (and I tried) hubby was getting his instrument teaching approval, then his multi teaching approval, and his hours up so that he could move onto better and bigger things. While I was getting ever more uncurrent. If they had hired me, it honestly would not have changed my partners availability. And the sad part is, - for most guys that's not even a thought. But it is absolutely a consideration for women.

Our childcare requirements haven't really changed over the years - one of us need to be home outside business hours. And at times that has been us working opposite roster - usually hubby working the morning roster, and me on afternoons, or vice versa.

If they'd hired both of us, the net result would've been two pilots, both fulltime, with the occasional one off with a sick day, or if we juggled it right, not even off at all.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Good story.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/25/chloe-familton-teenage-pilot-solo-australia

[Clare Prop]

Good story.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/25/chloe-familton-teenage-pilot-solo-australia

Many of the airports she will land at, including Gove, Jandakot and Ceduna, are tiny

Flying is, unfortunately, still a bit of a boy’s club

Wind poses her biggest daily challenge, with the Cessna 172 unable to land in conditions above 15 knots

Who writes this rubbish?! Good luck to her anyway and hopefully she can find a journalist that can write a decent article about it.

[Mr Mossberg]

Interesting time to be heading across the top end, think I'd be doing it in the dry.

[Mr Proach]

I was recently talking a female Captain who has three daughters in the 20s. Now she tried a bit to get them into the profession, but they wouldn’t have a bar of it. They opted for Construction and Medicine.

The question should be why don’t people be it any gender wish to pursue, in this case, the Flight Deck.

She should be relieved to know she has three very smart daughters!

[Saintly]

I have loved aviation all my life. I'm currently 36 and male. I would love to get my pilots license one day. I'm also Aboriginal, I don't know of many Aboriginal people who are pilots, there wouldn't be many as pilots working for the airlines.

My challenge at the moment is: I need to save a bit more money, as we all know, aviation is expensive.

But perhaps my biggest challenge of all is my health, I have Diabetes (Type 2), and reading the CASA website, there is quite a few hoops to get through. It his quite stringent which I understand.

Seeing Chloe Familton fly solo around Australia (VH-NCO) in the C172 Skyhawke has inspired me a bit. But it's also made me think over the past week if I should of focused on aviation when I was younger, there's been a lot of "should of done that" thoughts the past few days for me and it has got me down I must admit. I chose to focus on my cricket career as an umpire, I umpired 1st Grade WA Premier cricket in Perth, which is the Premier club cricket competition in WA (all states have a Premier club competition) and the level below First-Class/representative cricket. I left cricket unfortunately in 2016 due to the politics of it all which hurt me, so I walked away, but at the time of me walking away, I was ranked in the top 15 umpired in WA and as a rough guess probably in the region of 10th to 12th.

Anyway, probably the first step for me is to see a DAME...one of thise medical examiners and get some advice especially as I am a Diabetic. Then I could look at getting my pilots license.

Perhaps I have run out of time to fly big jets. But maybe even flying a turbine aircraft one day, even turboprops may happen. Who knows?

I just wanted to share this story with you all because I absolutely love aviation. All of my knowledge has come from being self taught, researching, reading, internet etc and having friends in the aviation industry, a few of them being pilots for the major airlines. I read a lot on here, only sometimes do I comment. There is always something to learn in aviation which I enjoy.

I appreciate all of you (male and female) and the work you do in aviation, i also appreciate everyone who isnt on this site and the work they do for aviation. This post certainly isn't a "trying to suck up to you all" post. I simply wanted to share a little bit of my journey and experiences with you all.

You're all welcome to chat anytime.

Cheers.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Thanks Saintly, what a great post to read - a timely reminder of how most of us felt embarking on an aviation career, and how fortunate we are to do this instead of having a proper job (notwithstanding all our usual complaints). I’m no expert on the diabetes situation, but my understanding is that it’s not the total showstopper it used to be, so hopefully you can find a way around it. I really wish you all the best with your aviation ambitions - there are some good opportunities right now, and it sounds like you’ve got the right attitude. Never say never!

[mustafagander]

Hey Saintly,
Don't worry about the T2 diabetes. There are T1 diabetics who I know personally holding 1st class avmed and flying big jets. As you know T2 is way easier to control and predict.
I wish you all the best in your aviation career mate. I was a jet pilot and flight engineer for 46 years and loved it. Go for it!!

[Saintly]

Hey Saintly,
Don't worry about the T2 diabetes. There are T1 diabetics who I know personally holding 1st class avmed and flying big jets. As you know T2 is way easier to control and predict.
I wish you all the best in your aviation career mate. I was a jet pilot and flight engineer for 46 years and loved it. Go for it!!

As a very rough approximate estimation, how much money should I save? I know that sounds like a stupid question to ask and I certainly dont want you or anyone else to think I'm stupid but I thought I'd ask.

There is one other aspect that is stopping me. It's called confidence. I actually feel a bit out of my comfort zone explaining this to you and everyone else, so forgive me.....its just that I have this fear of failure. I've always had it....the mindset sometimes of "what if what if what if or "what if that happens"....I wouldn't want to wreck anything if I was to get my pilots license. But I hope my love of aviation will overwrite the confidence issues.

But as I said, I love aviation, I could talk aviation with all of you all day and night but I won't, you'd probably all get sick and tired of me (and rightly so).

[Cedrik]

I think there is a reason why women are under represented in aviation, they are the smarter sex and can see through the "Dream job" rubbish. Flying is not the job most think it is. GA is virtually slave labour with CASA doing everything they can to make flying safer by putting more pilots and aircraft out of the air.

Paying for employment with low hour GA pilots seems the norm now. Airlines to some might be appealing but a lot just see the maximum hours and the drudgery of scheduled flight along with companies treating you as somewhere to save money to pay the rising executive salaries. Overseas flight wears thin with short stops, maximum hours and execs cutting every cost they can.

I have known lots of pilots who went the airline route, not many have lauded it as the "ultimate" job, with most complaining of treatment from the company, especially an Australian company. The only good word they have is about the superannuation they receive when retiring.

If you go flying be prepared to put up with bad treatment, under or no pay, working weekends, non existent holidays or family life for the first years of GA.

If you are one of those that have to absolutely fly, get a job that pays well and have your own aircraft. You will be a lot more satisfied and enjoy life.

[Gne]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1080/414725496_774805791347649_8224755045845984112_n_c802028d6183 2e5d8b38a48cee18c5c0e5919c3c.jpg

[framer]

I suspect that if you have the self confidence to umpire cricket at a high level then you will have the self confidence to fly planes. That said, start working on your self confidence to bolster it now. Doesn’t matter if you fly or not it will still be nice to have :)
Thanks for posting your story.

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

I suspect that if you have the self confidence to umpire cricket at a high level then you will have the self confidence to fly planes.

My thoughts exactly. Despite happily doing everything I could ever imagine wanting to do in aviation, the idea of umpiring cricket at a serious level would be terrifying to me. (Partly because I would be hopeless at it.)

I’ve seen a few people who were not exactly full of self-confidence, but discovered they were actually bloody good at flying aeroplanes and never looked back.

[Saintly]

Thanks Saintly, what a great post to read - a timely reminder of how most of us felt embarking on an aviation career, and how fortunate we are to do this instead of having a proper job (notwithstanding all our usual complaints). I’m no expert on the diabetes situation, but my understanding is that it’s not the total showstopper it used to be, so hopefully you can find a way around it. I really wish you all the best with your aviation ambitions - there are some good opportunities right now, and it sounds like you’ve got the right attitude. Never say never!

Thanks very much for this post. I appreciate it

I want to also add that I think people who work in the aviation industry, they don't get the thanks they deserve. I really do think at times it's a thankless job.....the public expect to be flown from point A to point B which is fair enough, but it doesn't take much to for example upon disembarking the aircraft just say to the cabin crew "Thank you" or "Good job" or something along the lines and if you get the chance to then also thank the pilots...even a quick thumbs up......they all appreciate it. I make sure I always thank the cabin crew (plus if I can the pilots too) when I am disembarking the aircraft once flight is over. A simple acknowledgement goes a long way. Like the general public, people who work in the aviation industry are human too - they don't deserve abuse or to be treated bad. Always treat them with respect I reckon.

[Saintly]

I suspect that if you have the self confidence to umpire cricket at a high level then you will have the self confidence to fly planes. That said, start working on your self confidence to bolster it now. Doesn’t matter if you fly or not it will still be nice to have :)
Thanks for posting your story.

Thanks very much for this...I appreciate it

[Saintly]

My thoughts exactly. Despite happily doing everything I could ever imagine wanting to do in aviation, the idea of umpiring cricket at a serious level would be terrifying to me. (Partly because I would be hopeless at it.)

I’ve seen a few people who were not exactly full of self-confidence, but discovered they were actually bloody good at flying aeroplanes and never looked back.

I'm sure if you learnt how to umpire, you would do well. Cricket needs more umpires, like most sports.

[Asturias56]

Thanks very much for this post. I appreciate it

I want to also add that I think people who work in the aviation industry, they don't get the thanks they deserve. I really do think at times it's a thankless job.....the public expect to be flown from point A to point B which is fair enough, but it doesn't take much to for example upon disembarking the aircraft just say to the cabin crew "Thank you" or "Good job" or something along the lines and if you get the chance to then also thank the pilots...even a quick thumbs up......they all appreciate it. I make sure I always thank the cabin crew (plus if I can the pilots too) when I am disembarking the aircraft once flight is over. A simple acknowledgement goes a long way. Like the general public, people who work in the aviation industry are human too - they don't deserve abuse or to be treated bad. Always treat them with respect I reckon.


I always offer them a tip on leaving..

[framer]

I always offer them a tip on leaving..
Me too, normally something along the lines of “ less top rudder” or “ You’re PA was unreadable”

[Saintly]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to wish you all a Happy New Year. I hope 2024 is a great year for you.

Cheers 🛩

[framer]

You too Saintly, I hope 2024 is a great yer for you and aviation in general :)

[Saintly]

You too Saintly, I hope 2024 is a great yer for you and aviation in general :)

Thanks very much and same to you.

Cheers.

[AnotherFSO]

Another federal government press release on this topic:
https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/media-release/encouraging-girls-and-women-take-their-aviation-careers-new-heightsEncouraging girls and women to take their aviation careers to new heightsThis International Women’s Day and Women of Aviation Week, the Australian Government is continuing to invest in women’s futures in transport, working in partnership with our aviation sector to deliver new activities under the Women in the Aviation Industry Initiative.

There was a highly competitive tender process and four specialised suppliers have been selected to deliver projects that will help to shift the dial on diversity, inclusion and representation in Australia’s aviation industry.

This includes forums to support our emerging women leaders in aviation, an Aviation Career Explorer program to boost aviation interest amongst high school students, and encouraging male champions in the industry to drive long-term cultural change to increase inclusion for everyone – all to be delivered by WAI Australian Chapter.

The Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology will run programs for flight instructors to foster leadership and inclusion skills, as well as for high school students to develop their interest in STEM careers in aviation.

The initiative will also support awareness and outreach activities for school students to highlight the incredible possibilities aviation can offer them, to be led by the Civil Aviation Academy of Australasia.

ThinkPlace Australia is the fourth of the successful suppliers, selected to design and pilot behavioural interventions in the industry using nudge theory to influence cultural change.

The theme for this year’s International Women’s Day is ‘Count Her In: Invest in Women. Accelerate Progress’. These projects will do just that.

I look forward to seeing these programs come to life, to make a real difference for girls and women in aviation.

The Government will support these vital activities with $1.3 million in funding, with a further $2.9 million still available under the initiative until 30 June 2026.

This builds on the momentum achieved by the release of the Women in the Aviation Industry Initiative Strategic Action Plan (https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/infrastructure-transport-vehicles/aviation/women-aviation-industry-initiative) in September 2023, and builds on the Working for Women: A strategy for Gender Equality (https://genderequality.gov.au/) focus on addressing industry gender segregation.
Media release
Friday 08 March 2024