JetBlue plane tips backward at JFK Airport gate after ‘shift in weight and balance'

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Interesting Incident! Thankfully, nobody hurt. Passengers were disembarking.

Photos:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1064x638/jetblue1_485761e8e5cfb1d7795d9ac1b1f27be6f6821f77.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1064x709/jetblue2_71aadedd0781a961c342a1b7cc7c230221733ea8.jpg

I though that this was not possible with contemporay planes.

NJ post link:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/23/shocking-images-show-jetblue-plane-popping-a-wheelie-at-jfk/

IB

[DaveReidUK]

I though that this was not possible with contemporary planes.

An aircraft built so as to be unable to tip on its tail in any circumstances would be unable to fly.

Taildraggers excepted, obviously. :O

[MechEngr]

Mainly avoidable by procedure- like offloading baggage from the rear before the front empties.

Maybe it was a group of the anvil collectors club crowded in the aft section waiting for the aisle to clear before lugging their prize anvils out to the terminal.

Some aircraft have provisions for a tail stand for this reason. https://simpleflying.com/aircraft-tail-stand/

[dixi188]

I felt a bit uncomfortable when sat near the back on a BA A321 at Heathrow one day. There was a problem with the jetty and it was announced that the rear door would be used for disembarkation.
There was a rush to the back of the, "I must be first off", brigade. The back of aircraft settled quite a few inches as the C of G shifted and the crew PA was to stay in your seat. Of course they did?

[BFSGrad]

Shame that Kennedy Steve has retired. His commentary would have been priceless.

Back in 2000, the USAF sat an Ellsworth B-1 on its tail due to mis-fueling. Repaired and still flying.

[soarbum]

Perhaps the McVitties were at the back?

[treadigraph]

Do I correctly recall an incident at Gatwick years ago involving an A320 or 757 inbound from some holiday spot? The aircraft dropped half the passengers at Gatwick and was then taking the rest to Manchester. The Man people were mostly seated towards the back so the crew asked some of them to move forward. Unbeknown to the flight deck, most of those people then returned to their original seats. As it accelerated, the aircraft felt as though it was prematurely rotating so the crew abandoned take off - and then discovered the imbalance in the cabin!

Think I saw that tale in Pilot..

[ea200]

I remember from many years ago a picture of what I think was a Fedex MD10 sitting on its' tail. The caption underneath was 'Fedex captain loses wallet out of cockpit window'.

[pattern_is_full]

Perhaps the McVitties were at the back?

I assume your avatar name is just - coincidental - to this event? Looks like this A321 may have a sore bum now. ;)

Anyway, I will be interested to see just what happened here, if the NTSB bothers to take note.

McVitties, a bowling team travelling with their (ahem!) balls as carry-ons, a squad of professional (US) football linemen getting to a game? Or odd cargo distribution down below?

Or possibly someone disabled, or tangled up in their carry-ons, in the aisle mid-airframe, which allowed the front to empty out while delaying forward movement of the rear passengers?

[soarbum]

McVitties, a bowling team travelling with their (ahem!) balls as carry-ons, a squad of professional (US) football linemen getting to a game? Or odd cargo distribution down below?

Apologies for the cryptic reference. McVities is a UK biscuit brand. I vaguely recall an ad from my youth where a rumour spread on a airliner that the McVitties were at the back, the passengers all ran aft and the ad then moved to an outside shot showing the airplane nose up heading for a stall. Then again, I can't find it online anywhere so I may have imagined it.

[KRviator]

Not the first time, won't be the last. Korean did it in Sit-on-knee a few years, and I had it in my mind there was a 747 there too, but I can't find a reference to it, so perhaps it was only just the MD11...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x300/20020109_md11_hl7372_1848_13b61bcb3f99f77120adf105c17b8d018e 103206.jpg

[MechEngr]

My favorite was a T-tail, probably a 727, that accumulated enough snow overnight to tip. They built a snow pile under the nose gear to prevent disaster if the snow were to slide off the stabilizer.

It must have been in the 1960s as the clipping I recall seeing in 1975 was yellowed with age.

[zoigberg]

Perhaps the McVitties were at the back?


I got it straight away Soarbum you didn’t imagine the advert :)

[MichaelKPIT]

A few weeks back I noticed DL had a support under the tail of a 737-900 in PIT. Does anyone know which aircraft typically have these supports fitted on the ramp? Or is it just "available" for all and Jet Blue chose not to use it here?

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Well of course there is the old Soviet Ilyushin-62, with an extra set of wheels at the tail.

For those who have never seen one, 2 photos:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1199x799/ilyushin_il_62_faeb8fdb1bdbb06e985102c02877059b4c868bd4.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x767/ilyushin_il_62_2_f0fa39537e68786f48864d6648989ffaeda5cf98.jp g


IB

[DaveReidUK]

A few weeks back I noticed DL had a support under the tail of a 737-900 in PIT. Does anyone know which aircraft typically have these supports fitted on the ramp? Or is it just "available" for all and Jet Blue chose not to use it here?

737-900s seem particularly prone to tipping, for obvious reasons, likewise the 757-300, less so the 737-800 (but still possible, depending on factors such as hold loads).

A number of other types are often seen using a tail steady, including many freighters.

[treadigraph]

One or two of the old propliners, forget which ones... ?

[HOVIS]

The last few flights I've had on Jet 2, 757 & 321, there was a PA from the CC asking the passengers at the front to wait until the rear passengers had disembarked.
This has only happened recently. Is it due to densification?
I think the early 757s only carried about 180 pax, these days it's nearer 220.

[Jonty]

The 757 is 235 in high density, the A321 Neo is 240 for some airlines.
The 75 was see likely to tip because it disembarked fro. door 2, so it emptied from the middle first. The 321 is a doors 1 plane, so the front cabin empties first. Put that together with an aft loading for bags and you can get into trouble if the baggage handlers aren't on their game.
I have to say I never thought it would actually go though!
I remember years ago, sitting on the flight deck and all the light came on and the ECAM went nuts. The aircraft had pitched up enough to set off the ground/air logic. The captain ran out side and low and behold they had started unloading the front hold first.

[Geriaviator]

Tail prop essential on Islanders and Trilanders as I recall. With one in four Britons now obese, and these being striplings compared to some Americans, I wonder if unit weight was a factor in this incident?

[Gargleblaster]

This image begged to be posted here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxMKWazWoAEWTNT.jpg

[HOVIS]

The 757 is 235 in high density, the A321 Neo is 240 for some airlines.
The 75 was see likely to tip because it disembarked fro. door 2, so it emptied from the middle first. The 321 is a doors 1 plane, so the front cabin empties first. Put that together with an aft loading for bags and you can get into trouble if the baggage handlers aren't on their game.
I have to say I never thought it would actually go though!
I remember years ago, sitting on the flight deck and all the light came on and the ECAM went nuts. The aircraft had pitched up enough to set off the ground/air logic. The captain ran out side and low and behold they had started unloading the front hold first.
Indeed. What I mean is that when the 757 first went into service I don't remember there being any such restriction on disembarking.

[scifi]

I wonder how they got it back down, maybe... ''Could the Lady Opera Singer please walk slowly to the front of the aircraft.''
.

[DaveReidUK]

I wonder how they got it back down, maybe... ''Could the Lady Opera Singer please walk slowly to the front of the aircraft.''
.

Combined with judicious use of the brakes? :O

[treadigraph]

'Ang on a moment lads, I got a great idea...

[Four Turbo]

Question. Where and when you DO have a removable tail prop, is it, and the rear fuselage mounting point, strong enough to take a serious 'tail sit'? Asking because on Electras I was told the prop was a crude indicator only, and that it would puncture the fuselage if really used in earnest. Standing by to be enlightened!

[Ivor_Bigunn]

I am still puzzled about what caused this incident.

Looking at the photo in Post #1, and according to all news accounts, the passengers were disembarking, obviously through the front door, when the aircraft tipped. So their movement would have been forwards, tending to depress the aircraft nose. No?

And the only baggage handling equipment seen in the photos is working at the very rear of the plane, also reducing the weight in the tail, assuming they are unloading bags.

I must be missing something!!

IB

[DaveReidUK]

I am still puzzled about what caused this incident.

Looking at the photo in Post #1, and according to all news accounts, the passengers were disembarking, obviously through the front door, when the aircraft tipped. So their movement would have been forwards, tending to depress the aircraft nose. No?

Not necessarily. During any disembarkation through a forward door, the front seats will be vacated first while those at the rear are still occupied.

That's not to say that it's the reason for this incident - I would assume that pax were not exiting at the instant that the aircraft tipped, otherwise we'd have had some interesting eye-witness reports.

[dixi188]

Is this an A321LR or XLR with the rear centre fuel tank? I wonder if that tank was still full, ie. not transferred during the flight.

[AircraftOperations]

Is this an A321LR or XLR with the rear centre fuel tank? I wonder if that tank was still full, ie. not transferred during the flight.

Nope. Standard A321 ceo.

[atakacs]

Speaking of disembarking did the jetty remain connected (apparently so from pictures)?
Was it still used after the incident?!
​​​

[Sue Vêtements]

I wonder how they got it back down.

Easy - they ran the conveyor belt in the opposite direction

[Ivor_Bigunn]

Well, the good old Daily Mail had some additional information. I have hilited the most interesting bits in Red.

I don't know how accurate any of it is.

"Passenger shows the terrifying moment from inside JetBlue plane as it TIPPED backward at JFK.

TikToker Sinead Bovell was among more than 100 passengers getting off the Airbus A321 from Barbados as its nose tilted into the air
JetBlue blames a 'shift in weight and balance during deplaning'

A passenger on board a JetBlue plane at New York's JFK has shared footage of its terrified passengers after it tipped backwards as they got off leaving its nose in the air.

TikToker Sinead Bovell was among more than 100 passengers aboard the Airbus A321-231 as it touched down after a four-and-a-half hour flight from Barbados on Monday evening.

They were disembarking through an air bridge at the front of the plane when the nose suddenly lurched into the air and its tail smacked onto the tarmac.

'I was seated maybe three quarters the way back into the plane,' Bovell told her followers.

'And when just over half the plane exited, or maybe a little bit more, the plane abruptly tipped backwards so quickly and so intensely that the tail of the plane hit the pavement of the jet bridge and part of the door broke.'

Her video records an airline stewardess ordering passengers around the stricken aircraft in an apparent bid to right it.

'Very slowly, little by little, move towards the middle of the airplane, cause apparently everything is like it tipped up,' she tells them.

The airline blamed a 'shift in weight and balance during deplaning', and sharp-eyed travel bloggers noticed the front cargo doors already open while passengers in the rear seats had yet to exit.

Her video records an airline stewardess ordering passengers around the stricken aircraft in an apparent bid to right it.

Frightened passengers struggled to stay upright as the plane see-sawed on its back wheels

'We had to strategically exit the plane two rows at a time, take a break, two rows at a time, take a break,' Bovell told her followers on TikTok

No injuries were reported aboard the eight-year-old plane which had just finished its four-and-a-half hour flight from the Caribbean.

And industry experts said that such incidents are not uncommon when aircraft have been badly loaded.

'Luggage is seemingly being removed through the forward cargo door, so maybe a lot of weight had already been removed there, while there was a significant amount of cargo in the rear,' suggested travel blog website onemileatatime.com.

'Passengers disembark front to back, so perhaps passengers weren't moving forward that quickly.

'This was probably the perfect storm in terms of having too much cargo and passenger weight in the back of the aircraft, while not having enough cargo and passenger weight in the front of the aircraft.' "



I am not sure about luggage already being removed from the forward hold, as it does not look like that in the photos, but perhaps that entire operation was finished?

And the TikTok video is not really interesting because it is taken 100% inside the plane, so no sense of tilting is seen at all.

IB

[DaveReidUK]

I am not sure about luggage already being removed from the forward hold, as it does not look like that in the photos, but perhaps that entire operation was finished?

Photos certainly show the hold door open.

[Apron Artist]

While I was at Gatwick until fairly recently, I lost count of the number of reports from concerned U2 Captains about A321s nearly tipping,

235 seats, standard procedure was to load the first 150 bags into the rear holds and any more than that in the front. Standard offload procedure was always to open both hold doors straight away, but unload rear first. Standard procedure was also to always have rear steps and to start offloading punters from the rear first. However, due to staff/equipment shortages this didn't always happen, resulting in the nose lifting, sometimes alarmingly so. In an ideal world, a full ramp team would be in situ for airrival of the aircraft - get the rear steps straight on, belt loader and baggage carts ready at the rear hold and get offloading the bags ASAP.

But it wasn't an ideal world and at the height of summer, the ramp team was still probably just finiishing pushing another aircraft out. By the time they arrived, exasperated dispatchers/cabin crew have already started kicking the punters out through the front jetbridge.

[oceancrosser]

737-900s seem particularly prone to tipping, for obvious reasons, likewise the 757-300, less so the 737-800 (but still possible, depending on factors such as hold loads).

A number of other types are often seen using a tail steady, including many freighters.

I have operated B757-300s for a very long time, never been an issue, never known one to have tail tipped and neither the B757-200.