Homebuilt scrap aircraft crashed in WA

[Squawk7700]

Police, paramedics respond after light plane crashes off WA coast (watoday.com.au) (https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/police-paramedics-respond-after-light-plane-crashes-off-wa-coast-20231021-p5ee08.html)Emergency services have rushed to the aid of two people, who were inside a small homemade plane which crashed into the ocean off the coast of Lancelin on Saturday afternoon.

Around 12.25pm West Australian police and St John paramedics responded to reports a fixed wing flying vessel had crashed on a reef near Edwards Island Nature Reserve in Lancelin.



A police spokesman said there were two people on the plane – the pilot and a passenger. Both sustained minor injuries and were assessed by paramedics at the scene.

A Facebook page for Lancelin posted a picture of the plane, named The Mudskipper, and stated it was homemade and “will fly about two metres or so above the water, with a speed up to 120 kilometres per hour.”

“There has been a serious mishap but the flying boat is still afloat. Oh no The Mudskipper has crashed in Lancelin Bay, we believe everyone is OK,” they wrote.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/740x493/1697891157_357dd0a5a088138e377944a58f78dff8652e8c5e.jpeg

I guess it was only a matter of time. From memory, they are calling it a boat rather than an aircraft.

[treadigraph]

https://x.com/LewisHaskew/status/1117279368315719681?s=20

Hmm, me Twixxer skills are obviously a bit limited.

Anyway, sorta Caspian Sea Monster.

[NZFlyingKiwi]

I usually cringe at the media's reporting of homebuilt (or 'homemade' as they like to say) aircraft but this one probably does fit their expectations more than most by the looks of it.

[Squawk7700]

I usually cringe at the media's reporting of homebuilt (or 'homemade' as they like to say) aircraft but this one probably does fit their expectations more than most by the looks of it.

Spot on…. and this one was proudly made using scrap components.

[Capt Fathom]

I guess it was only a matter of time.

Why do you say that Squawk?

[aroa]

A ‘fixed wing flying vessel’ Mmm.. vessel ..haven’t heard that term before. Doesn’t look too bad for a homebuild WIGE.
A microscopic take on the Caspian Sea Monster , ecranoplane.
I guess rocketing around just above the surface would be easy to dip in a wingtip.
Occupants ok that’s the main thing. Enough flying vessel fatalities of late.

[Stationair8]

Quantas plain in death dive?

[Squawk7700]

Why do you say that Squawk?

What could possibly go wrong with something like that, just above the water, a salvaged Jabiru motor and no regulatory oversight?

[Capt Fathom]

It’s registered as a boat so there’s your regulatory oversight.
Some interesting videos on youtube re the build and how it works (worked).

[Squawk7700]

It’s registered as a boat so there’s your regulatory oversight.

Surely you jest :-)

[MechEngr]

Did it crash while flying? Boats hitting reefs is nothing new.

[makgeo]

Saw a video of the incident. Was a loss of AoA and the front plowed into the water. The beauty of these craft is that it wasn't a stall from 100's of feet up and vertical speed wasn't the issue. Plane looked to have come out of it quite well.

Can't post links due to forum rules.

[aroa]

Flying machines registered as a boat. True. Another example of control freaking bureaucratic overreach in Oz.
Since at idle it sits on water ..ergo ..it’s a water borne ‘vessel’ So has to be so registered.
Ditto floatplanes and seaplanes.
In Canada and the US they laugh their heads off at this stupidity.
An aircraft on floats registered as an aircraft is exactly that.. it is not a tinny or speedboat. It’s an Aircraft.
Eff off I say to the idiot agency.

[Lead Balloon]

The Australian CA Act defines an aircraft to mean any machine or craft that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface. A wing-in-ground-effect 'thing' - when it's 'moving quickly without touching anything' - is deriving its support from reactions of the air against the earth's surface - either wet or dry.

[MechEngr]

Looks pretty tame to call it a crash, but OK

https://youtu.be/A10BqVK6T2Y?t=16

[Squawk7700]

That video does it no favours, it looks like it was bound to end in disaster due to the speed and proximity to other vessels, waves and the sand.

[Cloudee]

Flying machines registered as a boat. True. Another example of control freaking bureaucratic overreach in Oz.
Since at idle it sits on water ..ergo ..it’s a water borne ‘vessel’ So has to be so registered.
Ditto floatplanes and seaplanes.
In Canada and the US they laugh their heads off at this stupidity.
An aircraft on floats registered as an aircraft is exactly that.. it is not a tinny or speedboat. It’s an Aircraft.
Eff off I say to the idiot agency.
I’ve only ever seen VH rego on float planes. In what state do you also need boat rego?

[thunderbird five]

Surely you jest :-)

I do jest, and DON'T call me Surely!

[Capt Fathom]

I’ve only ever seen VH rego on float planes. In what state do you also need boat rego?

The ones I flew had a boat rego on the floats and I had to have a boat license. Don’t know what the rules are now but I don’t see boat regos on them anymore.

[Aussie Bob]

The ones I flew had a boat rego on the floats and I had to have a boat license. Don’t know what the rules are now but I don’t see boat regos on them anymore.

Never flown one with boat rego, never been asked for a boat licence. I did however see the "authorities" being told to "piss off; ya got no authority, on the water it's a registered power boat, in the sky it's controlled by the Commonwealth" by a private float operator. He had landed where "they" reckoned he shouldn't. "They" backed down.

I think old mate had a great idea, I am just not that into his testing location. Hope he "flies" it again. Ironically, the Caspian Sea monster featured on "Abandoned Engineering" just last night.

Eff off I say to the idiot agency.

Amen to that aroa, wish more would join us :-)

[PiperCameron]

The ones I flew had a boat rego on the floats and I had to have a boat license. Don’t know what the rules are now but I don’t see boat regos on them anymore.

Nothing has changed: you are supposed to have a boat rego and a boat license to operate any "watercraft" with an engine in most states of Oz - the eastern ones, anyway - but whether or not you need to show either and what hoops you have to jump through varies from state to state, since each state is responsible for it's own. eg. in Victoria they're issued by Vicroads - the traffic people. Makes sense, don't it?? :rolleyes:

In practice, it seems to be one of those things where, if you're not a weekend fisho or roaring around on a Jetski, because there are so many different bureaucracies involved, so long as you don't screw up nobody's going to bother you either way.

[aroa]

Don’t you love the tv news folk… ocean Emergency !!, Haha. More like a coastal shallows upset. But is a Crash!!

[jolihokistix]

Don’t you love the tv news folk… ocean Emergency !!, Haha. More like a coastal shallows upset. But is a Crash!!
Make that OCEAN EMERGENCY...
(Looks much better now)

[megan]

If the public service (oxymoron?) had its way all wheeled aircraft would be required to be registered with the road traffic authority and for pilots to have drivers licenses, I mean they share pavement with cars, trucks, tow motors etc You know it makes sense.

[Clare Prop]

In practice, it seems to be one of those things where, if you're not a weekend fisho or roaring around on a Jetski, because there are so many different bureaucracies involved, so long as you don't screw up nobody's going to bother you either way.

They are unlikely to bother people who do screw up either. Jetskis roaring over dive flags, powerboats mowing down rowers, rights of way and speed limits disregarded; water police are missing in action. Only ever seen them on the water once yelling at kayakers to keep away from the sealions even though it was the sealions who were the ones coming up to have a look at the humans.

[PiperCameron]

They are unlikely to bother people who do screw up either. Jetskis roaring over dive flags, powerboats mowing down rowers, rights of way and speed limits disregarded; water police are missing in action. Only ever seen them on the water once yelling at kayakers to keep away from the sealions even though it was the sealions who were the ones coming up to have a look at the humans.

Down here in Melbourne the Water Police have only one tiny outfit based out of Willliamstown and are often seen to be quite busy on nice weekends either entertaining VIPs in the Admiral's Barge (aka VP01) or chasing jetskis around the St Kilda foreshore in their own suitably-marked Police jetskis (or both at the same time).

I guess they can't be everywhere. To say they're understaffed would be an understatement.

Smelly creatures, them sealions.. :}

[Bull at a Gate]

On the Lancelin Facebook page there is a quote from the pilot/skipper who says he has had his skipper’s licence since he was 16 and that he is a commercial airline pilot too. There are a few videos in the comments as well.

[Squawk7700]

Down here in Melbourne the Water Police have only one tiny outfit based out of Willliamstown and are often seen to be quite busy on nice weekends either entertaining VIPs in the Admiral's Barge (aka VP01) or chasing jetskis around the St Kilda foreshore in their own suitably-marked Police jetskis (or both at the same time).

I guess they can't be everywhere. To say they're understaffed would be an understatement.



You obviously haven’t been to their toy shed, they have heaps of equipment. The 40? foot zodiacs from one of the last terrorism funding rounds, the massive thing, the less massive thing, the rigid inflatable things with the dual motors, plus the mobile units complete with Dodge Ram for towing etc, and said jet skis.

But don’t let that get in the way of a good story…

As for whether you are likely to get caught after the 7am-3pm shift is over, well that’s another story.

[Capt Fathom]

You obviously haven’t been to their toy shed, they have heaps of equipment. The 40? foot zodiacs from one of the last terrorism funding rounds, the massive thing, the less massive thing, the rigid inflatable things with the dual motors, plus the mobile units complete with Dodge Ram for towing etc, and said jet skis.

But don’t let that get in the way of a good story…


Doesn’t mean they have the personnel to man all that equipment.

[Squawk7700]

Doesn’t mean they have the personnel to man all that equipment.

They certainly do.

I know a little bit more about that than your average punter ;-)

What they don’t have, is the fuel budget of the Airwing, but they do ok and get a good number of hours on the water overall.

[tail wheel]

WIGE craft in Australia require both registration as a marine vessel and registration as an aircraft and the "pilot" must hold a marine drivers license and a pilot license, verified some years ago with the WIGE craft operating in Cairns.

I doubt that Junkyard Dog was compliant.

[KRviator]

WIGE craft in Australia require both registration as a marine vessel and registration as an aircraft and the "pilot" must hold a marine drivers license and a pilot license, verified some years ago with the WIGE craft operating in Cairns.

I doubt that Junkyard Dog was compliant.Not doubting you, but is there a current reference to that requirement? AIUI, there's several 'categories' of aircraft, glider/sailplane/helicopter (powered-lift, I think they call this) and so on, but one thing that stood out when I looked at whether a hovercraft would need a 'pilots' licence was the requirement that any lift generated be exclusive of the reaction of air against the earths surface, ie to be classed as an aircraft (or rocket/glider, etc) per 'the roolz' it had to be able to fly out of ground effect. LB touched on it earlier, but I can't find a definition to 'aircraft' in the current abomination of rules and regulations.

Interesting to note that in NSW, a seaplane - but only while it is on the water - is considered a vessel, per the Marine Safety Act, which also includes "any non-displacement craft" ie a hovercraft (or WIGE vehicle). What's even more interesting to note that, (again, in NSW), my boat, that's locked in my shed, tied down on its' trailer, is still considered to be on a voyage. Because "For the purposes of this Act, a vessel is taken to be proceeding on a voyage from when it gets underway for the voyage until it gets underway for another voyage." RMS obviously employ the same lawyers as CAsA...:ugh:

EDIT: The WA DOT has a nice little page (https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/wing-in-ground-effect-vessel.asp) on WIGE(ts), including a decent photo of the boat/plane/vessel
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/872x523/mac_i_wig_228141c4237893043350ea366d32abc640e3eeed.jpg

[Lead Balloon]

The definition is in the Civil Aviation Act 1988: any machine or craft that can derive support in the atmosphere from the reactions of the air, other than the reactions of the air against the earth’s surface.

[Pete Mitchelle]

so, it was a hard landing.

[ScareNorth]

What could possibly go wrong with something like that, just above the water, a salvaged Jabiru motor and no regulatory oversight?

The Jabiru engine has 300 hours pulled from a Jabiru upgrading to a Gen 4 engine and the Department of Transport approved the operation over many meetings

Saw a video of the incident. Was a loss of AoA and the front plowed into the water. The beauty of these craft is that it wasn't a stall from 100's of feet up and vertical speed wasn't the issue. Plane looked to have come out of it quite well.

Can't post links due to forum rules.

Your exactly right! It suffered a control malfunction losing pitch control in a 20 degree banked turn


Never flown one with boat rego, never been asked for a boat licence. I did however see the "authorities" being told to "piss off; ya got no authority, on the water it's a registered power boat, in the sky it's controlled by the Commonwealth" by a private float operator. He had landed where "they" reckoned he shouldn't. "They" backed down.

I think old mate had a great idea, I am just not that into his testing location. Hope he "flies" it again. Ironically, the Caspian Sea monster featured on "Abandoned Engineering" just last night.



Amen to that aroa, wish more would join us :-)
​​​​​​
hey
The craft is not in testing, it was out for a trip around lancelin. It has over 4000km on it

A few interesting comments but what else do you expect on pprune
The vessel was built from purchased material not "scrap" as some seem to think. A control malfunction occured during a 20 degree right hand turn causing loss of pitch control. It held up very well after impacting 200mm deep reef.
The vessel has over 4000km and has flown in several water body's and conditions. The flight at lancelin was a normal flight, not testing. To operate a WIG you only need a skippers ticket. This was approved by the department of transport over several meetings and even after the mishap they have no issue with its operation once repaired.

[Mr Mossberg]

Had a mate pulled up by the water police in Port Phillip for speeding, was over near Willy. Mate disagreed with them, when he asked what proof they had they said they got him on a video camera. Went to court to dispute the fine, when the case was laid out, the prosecutor advised the beak that they had the perpetrator on a video camera. Old mate asked the copper when the camera was last calibrated. Beak couldn't help laughing, threw the case out. Was a very entertaining 45 minutes.

[Clare Prop]

I was wondering if it was some kind of drone because the DoT picture above seems to be flying without anyone driving it. Then I came across the original picture on this site. Strange photoshop job..
The MudSkipper Wing in Ground Effect (revolutionise.com.au) (https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/site/4ltgwxrhkjevpdc5.pdf)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/712x429/mudskipper_2eaf858de7a7176ffb4d5c0b7b591f4376166ac6.png

[MechEngr]

They blurred the pilot for privacy reasons.

[tail wheel]

OK, I retract my statement. I saw this WIGE craft in Cairns and could have sworn it had both marine and aviation registration, however this film clip suggests no pilot license required:

https://youtu.be/bmy46xHcA3M?si=jFj_ekQxS94lF5Uw

I also know CASA Cairns "took an interest" in this craft at the time. It didn't last long, trials only then apparently disappeared?

[Squawk7700]

That Cairns one doesn’t seem to fly very high. Looks like a half decent wave would end your dar early.

[aroa]

Taily
The CAsA control freaks in Cairns would take an interesting in it because it has wings, lifts just off the water and they have nothing better to do.
Eventually this project, reinventing the wheel went nowhere along with the Government funding
Ops normal.

[PiperCameron]

That Cairns one doesn’t seem to fly very high. Looks like a half decent wave would end your dar early.

That, plus the excessive noise the engine generates reflected off of the water (think floatplane takeoff, but for the entire journey!), seems to be the main reasons the WIGE concept hasn't really ever taken off (pardon the pun).

IIRC, a few years ago someone tried to start a charter service between the Bellarine and Melbourne in one (I think it was an Airfish also) but the business model fell flat for those reasons. Maybe it's the one now in Cairns?

Using an electric motor is the only way this concept is ever going to get off the ground (/water) commercially, but you then have the waves to contend with - plus randoms on jetskis. Nahh, it'll never work. :hmm:

[601]

have the waves to contend with
and a loooong extension cord.

[Jump Complete]

A few years ago I listened to recording of an interview with a pilot who’d flown flying boats. His opinion of them was that ‘They combined the inherent risks of both sea and air.’ (Or words to that effect.)
A WIGE machine seems to take that and add ‘low flying’ to the mix!

[compressor stall]

OK, I retract my statement. I saw this WIGE craft in Cairns and could have sworn it had both marine and aviation registration,

I also know CASA Cairns "took an interest" in this craft at the time. It didn't last long, trials only then apparently disappeared?

Tailly, I recall same (needing pilot and marine) from 20 years ago, but I think it might have been that they wanted a pilot for the trials and implementation not because it was regulation. IIRC Palau was the initial market or business case?

Looked great when it was out and about under you when flying the CNS1 departure.